Centered3

The second part of Step 1 says "...our lives have become unmanageable". My sponsor told me after my home group's Step 1 meeting, when I had shared a bit about my unmanageability, that the unmanageability is our mind...our thinking. I hadn't quite connected those dots. I still thought of the unmanageability as what happens when we turn to our addiction.

But the unmanageability is about when I try to manage my own life by playing God even when I'm not drinking. It's about how controlling I was, because I was spiritually selfish--wanted everyone to act the way I wanted them to act, etc. and if they didn't, I was resentful, because I was full of self-centered fear. And I would carry that resentment for years and years.

I used to drink because I loved and craved the effect it produced. It made the anxiety go away, it quieted my mind, it gave me a ton of confidence, etc. Until it didn't. But that's more another thread...

I didn't realize until I learned it in AA that we use alcohol as the solution to our problem, but then that solution becomes the problem. And that the original problem was needing to quiet the crap in our minds that was so automatic and ongoing 24/7, that we thought it was normal. Didn't everybody think this way? Remember sh*t from decades ago? Or replay mostly trivial stuff that just happened, over and over, because the mind gets stuck in it and doesn't know how to let it go or doesn't want to let it go?

My sponsor used to believe that if her problems would just go away, she'd be able to stop drinking. Then she saw that it was her reaction to and her thinking about her problems that was the underlying problem of her alcoholism.

I recently emailed a close long time friend about a mutual friend from 25 years ago. We both had been trying to get reacquainted with her. I had a small amends to make, one that my sponsor didn't think was necessary but saw it was still bothering me, so she said to try to do it.

When this friend deactivated her facebook page again, before answering my message asking for her phone number, I was pissed and full of anger. I made up reasons in my head for why she did this, without even knowing if they were really true but my mind said they were true. I sent a venting email to our mutual friend about it. I took it personally that she didn't want to reconnect. I vented all about why I thought she deactivated her page again, and I vented about what I wanted to apologize for. I was pissed she wasn't giving me a chance to apologize.

Wow was that unmanageability or what? "Restless, irritable, discontented...."--untreated alcoholism or the ego starting to rebuild.

My close friend is rarely blunt. In fact I don't remember her ever being blunt. But she was. She basically said why haven't you let this go already??!!! It was a long time ago!!!! Why are you still thinking about it???

Why? Because alcoholism centers in the mind.

I have yet to meet an alcoholic or addict of any kind who is not still carrying around a ton of baggage from the past they haven't "let go" of yet, or one who isn't "selfish, dishonest, self-seeking, and frightened" spiritually.

My alcoholic mind just wants to hold on to every little thing and ruminate. It won't let go. It's broken.

Drinking quieted that temporarily. Until that stopped working.

I am so grateful for the solutions I have today which are more than "don't drink and go to meetings." My alcoholic mind will never be "cured" or fixed 100% but as long as I stay spiritually fit by living in steps 10, 11, and 12, I can keep it healthy and "recovered" and catch that ego trying to rebuild... and I can be honest with myself about how I need to be VIGILANT (a word my sponsor pointing out to me a few days ago) about living in 10, 11, and 12...

Centered3

I hope my sharing so brutally honestly here helps others. Recovery in my experience is much more than "not drinking and going to meetings." It's more than just writing step 4. It's really about the thinking mind and surrendering to your higher power and not surrendering to that ego, as soon as I wake up. Every new 24 hours. It's a daily reprieve.

ScottFromWI

Thanks for sharing centered. Just as an FYI, you may get more step specific /AArelated responses in the 12 step forums. Not that your posts are not welcome here in this forum ( they are! ) but not all users in the general forum are familiar so they may not be able to respond.

fini

I have yet to meet an alcoholic or addict of any kind who is not still carrying around a ton of baggage from the past they haven't "let go" of yet, or one who isn't "selfish, dishonest, self-seeking, and frightened" spiritually.

but but but...this would belie the promises.
i hope you meet some soon.
they're out there.
they are here on SR, too.

Centered3

Thanks, Scott. I thought about putting this in Step 1, but I thought more people would read it in the "alcoholism" section and be interested in reading about the mind part. If they're not familiar with the Steps or interested in the Steps, they can skip that part of my post. Just sharing what my thinking was behind posting here. :-)

Centered3

Oops. I didn't write it clearly. I didn't mean a sober alcoholic or addict. I meant a newbie, or one who isn't working in a solution and is still a dry drunk with untreated alcoholism. :-) *Wishes the edit button option lasted longer than a few minutes!!* ;-)

fini

yeah, i often wish that, too, about the 'edit' function.
thanks for clarifying.

ScottFromWI

Please also be aware that the term "dry drunk" has a very negative connotation with some around here and it's recommended that you refrain from using it.

Centered3

Scott I had no idea. I will try to remember to refrain from using it. Why does it have a negative connotation? (I was taught that it meant a person who just stops drinking/using but doesn't fix their mind or spiritual malady.)

I respect that there are different forms of recovery, but I didn't realize this term had negative connotations. I use it as part of my own story and have heard others use it, too. Is the term "untreated alcoholism" more politically correct? Thank you for pointing this out to me. I don't want to offend anyone. I'm sorry if I offended anyone. How about we delete my thread, can we do that? Thanks.

Dharma33

Centered, thanks for the great post. It really helped me!

Time2Rise

Not everyone believes that alcohol issues are caused by a "spiritual malady". IMO, if a person isn't drinking, they are sober. They aren't dry drunks or untreated alcoholics or anything else other than sober human beings. Whether they attend meetings, work steps or pray everyday is irrelevant.

Please understand that AA beliefs and ideas about alcoholism are not universally accepted in the recovery community, and AA is not the final authority on alcoholism and recovery.

There are many paths to a quality sobriety and AA is only one path, so comments that assume everyone in recovery just accepts AA beliefs tend to be off-putting.

Time2Rise

BTW, there's no need to delete the thread, I don't believe you've offended anyone.

Gottalife

Even the term untreated alcoholism is not universally accepted. It could well depend on where you are on the alcohol use disorder scale.

For the majority, who have not yet lost the power of choice, just stopping drinking might well be all that is required. That is pretty much what all my school mates did, just one day stopped abusing alcohol and resumed a normal life. No untreated alcoholism, because alcohol rather than alcoholism was the problem.

I was just one of a small number who found I could not stop. I think that one of the AA suggestions is to just stop and see how it goes. Most will be able to do that just by deciding to. I couldn't, so it turned out AA was a good solution for me.

My life without booze got worse, unlike my school mates whose lives instantly returned to normal.

Gottalife

Getting back to the topic, the statement about the main problem centering in the mind comes down to one thing. The lack of an effective mental defence against the first drink.

We all know that the only known solution to alcoholism involve complete abstinence. The alcoholic would be fine if he never took the first drink. When he/she takes the first drink, thought of the consequences if they occur at all, do not come with any force. And once started, the craving kicks in and off we go again. So the solution would be finding a 24/7 defence against those momentary lapses in judgement, a remedy for when the mind fails to protect us.

Redmayne

' Remember, it's easy to lead a happy life, it's all inside you. In your way of thinking.'- Marcus Aurelius, which suggests that albeit the main problem for the alcoholic centers in the mind - the book, 'Alcoholics Anonymous', life itself, or at least your perspective of it, centers in the mind...

'Man is not disturbed by things but his view of things' - Epictetus

tomsteve

I read something here a bit ago that reminded me of hearing it from an oldtimer real early in revoery:
if alcohol is your problem then alcohol isn't your problem.
when I got into aa I knew there were much deeper problems- problems centered in me.
However
THAT admittance came the day after my last drunk. I was out of denial about the problem I had with alcohol. I was out of denial that I was all jacked up and it wasn't people,places, and things that were the problem. it was me.

ScottFromWI

We don't need to delete the thread, and as you've seen there have been many well-though out responses. As you can see, there are many different types of people from all around the world here that participate in many different types of recovery methods. Some even use SR as their primary recovery source.

The connotations with the term I referenced come more from how it is used by some ( not all ) to somehow suggest that there is only "one way" to get sober.

I think just about every recovery method or plan accepts that there is much more to being sober than just "not drinking". If simply removing alcohol were the solution, this forum and others like it wouldn't need to exist for the most part, right?

August252015

Centered- see my story from yesterday about just this. It is in the Class of Feb 2016 Newcomer thread. Had a talk with a step-focused response that I shared. Also talk on The "F*ck Its" - see p2 in Bill's Story, 2d paragraph, p6 1st full paragraph. Many more on other pgs I can't recall but will look for for you.
"The market would recover but I wouldn't. ...Should I kill myself? No -not now. [F*ck It] Gin would fix that."

oldsoul112249

Thoughts affect feelings affect actions in that order. So yes I believe it starts with mind and the mind should be treated first for sobriety. That's why "just not drinking" and no matter how much I hurt and cried I couldn't stop. I couldn't solve a problem with the same mind that created it! Letting go of old ideas..BB.

ZenLifter

Centered, I strongly relate to your original post. My thinking is just like you described. I think many people are "restless, irritable, and discontent" , whether they drink or not. In Zen we might say they are attached, especially to the idea of themselves as a separate self that must always be defended or gratified. Really, 12 step principles would be good for many people, again, drinkers or not. Thanks