Della1968

You guys haven't had a break to just chill and process it all. You are dealing with physical, emotional and mental emergencies daily. I am pretty sure I would self destruct with just one aspect of it all. I certainly wouldn't be as strong as you both have proven to be already. At the end of the day you are two humans in pain xoxo

fini

embracing limitations......never easy. is embracing required/desirable?
first i felt no, "just" acceptance of limitations.
but i'm thinking you chose the words carefully. and embracing leads to a different place vis-a-vis the now and the tomorrow.
a more positive one, i'm thinking.
i'm remembering something i read about Kuebler-Ross being wrong in stopping at the supposed fifth "stage" and that there is a sixth one, inspiration.
and that seems top be related to lemonade-making.
i'm sorry if this sounds blasé; i don't know how to write about it in other words and don't mean it in a trite or cliche'd way.

and i'm thinking of having to embrace my alcoholism in order to embrace my sobriety; something i strongly felt all along.
which says nothing about liking it. or being glad to have it or any such thing.

just that the way forward seemed to have a better chance to be...uh....richer.

glad to hear you'll be doing the f2f talking, Rob. with whatever reluctance and courage that might entail. and i have every confidence you will find your very own bearings.

EndGameNYC

History has demonstrated that the obsession with ideas, ideals and beliefs are primarily destructive, and typically implode within themselves, but often not before inflicting a great deal of damage and suffering on the larger group.

The Crusades, Naziism, Radical Islam. The expression 'religious fervor' has more to do with greed, destruction and psychotic-like states rather than pious reverence for God. The Soviet Union wasn't a country; it was an idea. It was a metaphor, the practical application of which benefited the relatively few in power while subjugating its populace to a life of forced labor and daily suffering for the ostensible "good of the many." (We know what's good for you, and we're going to make you do it, even if we have to kill you.) If it were a serviceable idea that people would seek to live with, rather than an imposed single-party rule by oppression, then it would have stood the test of time. And plausibility. Instead, and as did the Berlin Wall in a different way, the Soviet Union ultimately and metaphorically collapsed upon itself, as gratuitous and practically unsound ideas and obsessions often do.

Unfortunately, and as happened in Nazi Germany, an obsession with ideas and beliefs often, and particularly when dealing with a fearful population, gain momentum and power that is eventually abused (a trademark of those with obsessive ideas and beliefs), making those who don't publicly endorse such ideas and beliefs fearful to the extent that they play along with the status quo in order to survive.

During the Nuremberg Trials following WWII, those on trial were administered the Rorschach (ink blot test), which reveals meaningful aspects of one's personality using projective techniques. What was interesting to me, is that most of the responses demonstrated a type of chameleon response, many actually using the word 'chameleon' in response to what they saw in certain ink blots. Like actual chameleons, this suggests that they could change their outer personalities in order to survive an anticipated attack or, in this case, punishment in many forms, including death.

RobbyRobot

Thank you my good friends one and all.

As I take in your shares I already feel less defensive towards myself with respect to my new lifestyle choices, and I am encouraged knowing I'm not at all alone with myself while I journey and so continue into a more realistic lifestyle.

You guys know me well because of the success of these threads, and I'm greatly comforted by your knowing. Such support and love really does lighten my burdens and affords me a kind of sustained breathing space, if you will.

RobbyRobot

((((Melissa))))

Soberpotamus

Hi Robby, I can't possibly know how you must feel at this moment, but when I read your latest posts, and then I read GroundhogDay's post about it being ok or normal to begin to feel detached, that really struck me as authentic and spot on. I can imagine that feelings of detachment would be a natural instinct or response right now.

I wish I had more to add.

I am in awe of your willingness to continue to face things as heroically as you do.

Jeni26

Good morning Rob and Melissa. Your latest shares touched me deeply, and, as before, I am drawn back to the last months with my Dad.

When he first received the news that his cancer was inoperable and incurable I was with him and my Mum. We had already suspected this would be the case as this wasn't his first bout and he was very ill. Nevertheless, the oncologist told him he could have a course of radiotherapy to prolong his life.

As we left his office, we headed to a coffee shop in the hospital, and sat together to regroup and talk it through. My Dad was so grateful that he'd been given an opportunity to have treatment. This was in July last year. He immediately set himself a target...he wanted to be around for Christmas and to spend it with his Grandchildren. My Mum was tight lipped but she wanted to support his dream, so she subsequently busied herself nursing him at home as best she could, turning down any sort of help until she really couldn't manage that any more.

I admired them both for being so single minded, but it came at the expense of either of them being able to live 'in the moment'. There was a goal in sight for them both, and nothing would come before that. Several times I gently suggested that Dad get his finances in order. Mum left all that to him, she had no idea of how her bank account worked or what responsibilities they had. I was brushed off. They didn't want to face that, not yet, it was never the right time. They had re-written the conversation with their consultant, to listen to them you'd have thought he had written them a blank cheque for unlimited life. I had many conversations with my siblings to remind them of the stark truth of the situation.

It was a surreal time. It was easy to get caught up in their singleness of purpose, indeed to go against it felt like I was being unduly pessimistic and spoiling what life he had left.

When he got pneumonia, I was the one who phoned an ambulance. Dad was cross...he was due to have radiotherapy and I was the one standing in his way. From then on, his decline was rapid. He never managed to breathe without the aid of oxygen again and once his dream was dashed he became angry at the world.

I'm not sure either of them had ever fully accepted the seriousness of their situation. After all, he'd had cancer before and got over it, why not this time? I found it difficult to enter their parallel universe of denial, yet accepted their right to be in it. Whatever was easier for them I guess. And, if I was in that same position, who knows how I would handle it.

There really is no script to follow in dealing with such news, either as the patient, or as a partner or family member. Life must go on, and yet it stands still. It's like being in an alternate reality.

Lots of love to you both, your bravery and dignity touches us all ❤️

RobbyRobot

Hi Jeni.

Sorry for your loss of your dad.

Thanks for the sad but beautifully said share about living (dying) with a terminal prognosis. I'm grateful I can hear the message. In many ways it is impossible to reasonably deal with my ending, but even more impossible for me to ignore the consequences should I somehow not face the forced reality which is coming. I'm of a mind to face my responsibilities as quickly as I can while I'm still able.

Shares like yours give me added strength and purpose. Thank you!

RobbyRobot

Good Morning Friends! Sunny, cloudy, rain, and into the low 80's. Looks like the humidity will be wild, lol.

I feel a whole lot better after sleeping through most of yesterday. I'm a morning person and I'm awake around 6 or 7am and then get on with my day. It seems now I'll do better to have a really good nap in the mornings, and the afternoon, if I'm to enjoy my evenings. Until yesterday, I was pushing myself to stay awake in the mornings and even the afternoons. Looks like all that had caught up to me. So this is a real lifestyle change being put into action.

I'm also going to eat small plates 5 or 7 times a day rather then three proper meals. I do better with my stomach less full. Another change in lifestyle. I've lost considerable weight over the last three months, around 40lbs or more. I need to rework my diet to at least stabilize my weight. And some exercise to maintain and build up my muscle strength and endurance too. This is a bit more tricky because of complications with my spine. I was to have corrective surgery this summer to fuse my lower and upper back. This surgery is now of course cancelled, so I'm left to deal with those complications. Too much exercise and its going to get painful for no good reason. Too little, and I'll just keep getting weaker. I'll find the balance as I learn my new limits. How I respond to the chemo in mid June will really inform me as to what exercise plan I can put into action.

courage2

Good day, Rob.

Here are a couple of lines from a poem by Wallace Stevens that made me think of you this morning:

Quote:

And whence they came and whither they shall go
The dew upon their feet shall manifest.

There's more from the same poem for Melissa, later.

Aellyce

Good morning, Robby.

I'm glad to hear that you are feeling better and a bit more grounded this morning. I could not respond to you earlier when you mentioned the weird feelings, but I read it and was immediately thinking that perhaps it was more the momentary emotional effects of recent overload in challenges and physical exhaustion than anything else (i.e. more these than some sort of internal ideological or philosophical conflict) right now. What you just wrote this morning makes perfect sense, and you see... you already came up with ideas for constructive lifestyle changes, so fast

The idea of talking f2f with others in similar situations to yours (including more advanced perhaps) sounds like a great one. You seem like someone who is excellent at selecting and maintaining companionship and community that suits you... and like you said before, the company and insight of people who are going through similar experiences can be invaluable.

I had a good friend with terminal cancer, whose situation was quite similar to yours: diagnosed late, multiple metastases already etc. I spent a lot of time with him during his last ~6 months (those were the months leading up to my getting finally sober) -- I wrote about this several times on SR superficially. He was a shy and introverted person and had virtually no friends and family at the time. We met in a philosophy class ~two years prior that we both took for fun, and from which I dropped out before the end due to my choosing drinking in the evenings... but we connected extremely well both in class and in a few private meetings afterward, so developed a friendship, which I cut later, again, because I choose drinking. He knew about my drinking problem. Anyhow, almost 2 years later he calls me out of the blue, to tell me he was diagnosed with that cancer, and wanted to meet me again if I agreed. I was just ~recovering at the time from a very nasty (and untreated) major depressive episode, still drinking, and so used to constant, daily thoughts of death and suicidal ideations, I thought "heck, who could be better partner to a dying person if not me"! Twisted thought process of a drunk... but eventually it turned out not entirely wrong. So we started meeting 2-3x weekly... he pretty much only had me and his medical team at the time. Did not want any other support or help.

I recall very vividly the phases he went through initially with many internal conflicts around the changes in his ability to maintain the lifestyle he was used to as a healthier person. He suffered greatly from these dissonances for a while... just like what I've seen from my father later and recently. Kinda refused to adjust at first (I feel you are much more open-minded in comparison), and then exhausted himself... then got angry at the whole world (projected his frustration I think)... and then wild mood swings trying to reconcile the life he saw all around him, and his own perspective. He even got into conflicts with me, which we eventually interpreted as reactions to the fact that he both felt bond to me / identified with me in misery (a friend, and an alcoholic with all those dark imaginations and view of life) and simultaneously saw us as opposites (him vs the survivor). A few tough weeks for both of us.

Eventually, he managed to work through the conflicts, in small steps, and in a really non-linear way (frustration went away, then came back, several times). Eventually he submitted to the necessary, inevitable lifestyle changes, for which he had some great advisors in his medical team. I'm guessing you could also find such lifestyle advice, Robby? He also agreed to get into a therapy program that is specifically designed for terminal patients, at one of the local universities. It was sort of an experimental program (still is), and worked pretty well for him. One of the major issues I see with my father now is that while he has ~accepted his state and that it's radically different from what he knew earlier in life, he fails to process those conflicts and dissonances between himself and the rest of the world... manifesting in strong (sometimes aggressive) bursts of anger against the external reality: objects, all forms of life, people, including myself. He still refuses emotional support in his local environment, and sometimes expects all that from me, which is an impossibility (not only because of the physical distance but also because I cannot adequately identify with his situation, no matter how much experience with "end of life"... I am just very far from that myself right now). He has opportunities to meet with other elderly people, and initially he said OK... but no.

Back to my friend with cancer: his lifestyle change also involved a lot of napping for him, multiple times a day. And in between, engaging with relatively simple activities that he found rewarding and constructive in terms of his condition and emotional state. I guess we can say I was one of these "activities". And letting big, overwhelming demands from himself go. He let go of a few work projects, for example, that he loved dearly. The way I saw and followed his process, these changes really helped him, but they did not come easily and quickly initially.

This is the part of the story I wanted to share today, Robby... there is a lot more, and I'll write about it later as I see fit here. One thing I was thinking though, and this is in line with Della's comment: the past several weeks have been super intense for both you and Melissa, with very little time to sit still and let it sink in. You also keep these threads alive and going constantly, on a daily basis, and I am sure you do because it's helpful... but perhaps a few days break here and there, to just spend with Melissa and your local reality might not hurt as well? I don't know, it's hard for me to judge, I only know I would more than likely need such breaks. Of course we would miss you greatly, but this is primarily about Robby and Melissa. As it was discussed a few times, your heroic attitude is amazingly inspiring to all of us, but you don't need to be a hero at all times.

I'm certain you will figure it all out as things come your way, and find what's best for you in all the different phases of this journey

(And speaking of taking it more slowly... I'll need to write shorter posts in the future!)

brynn

Afternoon hellos and hugs all around!

courage2

Here's for Melissa:

Soberwolf

Hello Robby & Melissa i hope today has been a nice day thought id post a fun picture here you go

RobbyRobot

Good Morning Friends

Thanks for the insights haennie. I appreciate your experiences with your friend, and with your dad. I relate to much of both, in my own ways.

I'm thinking your suggestion, thanked by many members and friends I respect, to not be so day to day with my threads is a positive action. For myself, I didn't see it as a burden requiring powers of heroics to satisfy. More I totally needed to speak directly about the elephant in the room. These direct and frank shares have helped me appreciate the whole of the elephant, and in this I'm satisfied.

I really didn't have a strategy for the threads other than to keep them positive and purposed with opportunities for all and any of us to share our experience, strength, hope. I believe this too has succeeded in spades.

I too believe Melissa and I have dealt with a lot since April 27th. Have we really had a break since? Probably not. We have already had notable successes in dealing with my health, and although more challenges are ahead, I'm confident I'm walking my talk already, and I don't see me straining to keep things together, if you will. I'm certainly not feeling helpless, or tragic, or whatever with respect to my prognosis. I do feel "time spent wisely" has already become entrenched in my actions and in creating and following thru on said actions to ensure a complete satisfaction. It's obvious, I'm short on having time to waste on failures, even if well intentioned.

My writings will easily take up most of my time. I'm also not interested in just writing some book for the sake of it. The book will have real purpose and meaning or it will never see a day of publication. I have enough self-respect and self-esteem to know what I'm about in my writings. What I don't have is a lot of time, lol.

Meh

I'm not actually an easy guy to help, or even be friends with, I know this to be true. From my side, I see others as individuals before I see them as part of a collective. If I can't get a personal handle on a person, you know, a window in, I pretty well just let it go and detach from chasing the relationship. When I do interact with insightful appreciations, I'm always impressed how unique we are all even though we at the same time are so similar and even common. Paradox.

Like everyone else, I enjoy being appreciated too. Sharing life experiences amongst my peers has always brought me the best satisfaction in that shared appreciation.

If I take terminal cancer off the table here, I still had enough challenges to keep me busy for many years, lol. My prognosis has already destroyed many good dreams I had for myself, dreams I share with my beautiful wife. Dreams which we now know will always be nothing more than dreams. This in itself is the most difficult realization to face. We're both retired, and we have the resources to travel the world several times over. It is heartbreaking my prognosis has cheated us in this. Nonetheless, it is what it is, and we are not entirely lost. We are making difficult choices and in doing so we are also creating new dreams which are more in keeping with our reality going forward.

I do believe there are yet more challenges ahead. Not surprisingly, these challenges I will meet as best I can, and yet I'll also fail in my level of satisfaction. I can't lose my life and not at the same time experience failure. I do believe I can game up now so as to best mitigate such future failures. For me, failure has never been a bad thing. Success is built and nourished on the bones of failure. For me, I have a real opportunity to learn how to die and pass away while at the same time living life to its fullest with respect to my circumstances. I expect the internal dynamics to be spectacular and awesomely amazing. And I have front row seating too!

EndGameNYC

Lovely.

Dee74

Inspiring Rob,
Thank you


D

alphaomega

Another breath grabbing post courtesy of our Bot.

Phew.

You.

courage2

Thank you Robby. You're a wonderful example of "Success is built and nourished on the bones of failure" -- I write from a city of skyscrapers, where we erect towers over the carcasses of our past.

Della1968

I for one will struggle without a daily fix but I will try to carry on. XOXO I may end up here just talking to myself but that's ok