Dee74

I think everyone wants that - but it's baby steps - I obsessed about drinking for a long time...and then I obsessed about not drinking too.

Things will settle down to a default level LaT - it would be a mistake to judge the rest of your life on these last two weeks

I still think about my recovery and I still do regular maintenance - but it's not onerous - it's something I want to do, and it's pretty much automatic now like cleaning my teeth showering or exercising...

I know it's doing me good, but I don't spend all day thinking about cleaning my teeth before bed

relax - it'll be ok

D

Grungehead

The day I forget who/what I am is the day I start down the path towards relapse. As someone who has had two different periods of long term sobriety and went back out I am speaking from experience. You don't have to use AA if you find something that you find more compatible (although AA/12 steps is what is working for me), but I found out the hard way that just ignoring the fact that I'm an alcoholic, even after 6-7 years without drinking, caught up with me. Many of my old behaviors returned and picking up a drink was just a matter of time.

I'm coming up on 2 years and I have been much more proactive about my sobriety this time around. Us alcoholics can be hard headed, but I think I have finally learned the hard way that no matter how hard I try to be "normal" I will always be an alcoholic. I have had a heart condition my entire life and have had 2 open heart surgeries in the last 11 years. After going through that in order to be able to lead a somewhat normal life, the effort it takes to treat my alcoholism in order to lead a somewhat normal life seems pretty simple.

And it's not like I walk around all day obsessing about drinking or recovery (although I did to some extent the first 3-6 months), but I do spend an hour or two every day on my recovery whether it's going to a meeting, reading/posting on SR, spending time with my sponsor or helping another alcoholic that needs some help or guidance. I spent far more hours every day drinking...far more.

Dee74

I've removed some posts.

I'll repeat again
If you have a personal disagreement with someone - take it to PM

D

RobbyRobot

With all respect to your experiences, I'm of a different mindfulness from my own experiences when it comes down to if "forgetting who/what I am" actually starts me down the path towards relapse. I've been sober since 1981. I'm recovered. Being recovered, I'm as free to "forget" I'm an alcoholic as much as I please without consequences of relapsing. I know its popular opinion that forgetting what we are leads to a return to drinking. Obviously I disagree, and I do so because forgetting has never got me back to drinking.

Only my actual alcoholism illness coming out of remission is a true threat to my sobriety. Everything else is just not something for me to be concerned about, including "forgetting". I think for those in recovery they choose for themselves how fragile is their sobriety. Mine is bullet-proof by design. I didn't choose to free myself from alcoholism to only then become enslaved to sobriety. My sobriety is not conditional to "remembering or else".

I realize many are of the opinion "never say never", and "we only have a daily reprieve", and so on and whatever. I've said never again for decades now, and I don't only just have a daily reprieve. I'm permanently recovered. I'm also AA too, and I often get flack back for my taken position, and that is okay.

I just want to say being from AA isn't some kind of lifelong punishment with alcoholism. Certainly a lot of members fear for themselves with respect to their sobriety. I understand. Nonetheless, not all members are concerned about "remembering or else".

Boleo

I to waste no time remembering or trying to forget my alcoholic past. I no longer "fear" a relapse simply because I am no longer attached to either the management or the outcome of my sobriety. I know for a fact that my sobriety is a byproduct of a spiritual awakening. Success or failure is not mine to pocket. I can afford to get cocky once in a while because I know how to pull myself back in line with prayer and meditation. I could meditate on Nibhana 24 hours a day if I needed to but my message would turn to mush if I did.

That being said, I am still 100% responsible for my spiritual fitness and psychological equanimity. I now feel like I should always be moving forward with my spiritual growth. Some days I don't really know what that means but the one thing that I do know is... that it is very dangerous for someone like me to stand still.

skg

I came because of the insanity of alcoholism; I stay for the promise of spiritual connectivity. Spiritual growth is a direct result of the action of responding in obedience to God. I can intellectualize all day long, and still be just a NoiseMaker. I need the promise of a lifetime of spiritual growth. Everything else pales in comparison...
Thank God for that!

soberlicious

It's definitely doable, as you can see from many of the posters here. You are smart and introspective. You will find the right way for yourself. xo

Bmac

I first got sober in 1990 when I was 21 and remained sober for 23 years until I chose to drink again. I went to AA for the first 11 of those 23 years. Then I got married and started a family and moved on with my life and from AA.

When I drank again, it was not because I was not "working a program", or was a "dry drunk" or any of the other AA catch phrases. I chose it to alleviate pain. It was the best thing that could have happened to me because I understood, once again, that I am constitutionally unable to drink alcohol. It's just how I am wired.

I do go to AA meetings today, not to label myself or for big book readings. I go to be around other people who have the same issue that I do....we just can't drink. Same reason I come on here daily, to communicate with others who have the same goal as I do: to live free from alcohol.

You will find your own path in recovery, one that works for you. The beauty of sobriety is that there is only ONE rule to follow that ensures your happiness and spiritual growth; just don't drink no matter what. Do that and everything else will not only fall into place, but will surpass even your wildest expectations!

Grungehead

I don't disagree with any of this. The problem as I see it is that during my earlier periods of sobriety I quit working on recovery. I stopped going to meetings and I never worked the steps. I tried to pretend I was recovered from alcoholism when I wasn't. Having worked the steps I too believe I am recovered, but my recovery is contingent upon me remaining “in fit spiritual condition”. This is what I meant by not forgetting who I am or where I come from. I've met too many people in AA who had recovered only to stop practicing the principles of the program and become "unrecovered" and eventually drink.

This is the first time I actually realized that there was more to sobriety than just putting the bottle down. I can truly relate to what you and Boleo are saying and I have started to experience this for myself. I no longer think about drinking or not drinking nor do I live with the fear of relapse. These things are not part of my daily thoughts anymore. What I meant by "forgetting" is to "rest on my laurels" and behave as if I was cured from alcoholism based on having not picked up a drink for several years. I guess that if I were just a heavy drinker and not an alcoholic this would have been sufficient but that was not the case for me.

I am in some ways fortunate that I experienced repeated failure by underestimating the scope of my disease/illness. Ultimately it gave me the gift of desperation and willingness to find a way to keep my alcoholism in "remission", and I'll be forever grateful to AA and members of SR who helped me find that way this time around.

LaTraviata

How did you design it to be bullet proof? I'd like to bullet-proof my sobriety as well.

anattaboy

LT, I found this short read and method to be helpful. You may get the bulletproof reference here:http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ined-long.html

Boleo

I can be "recovered" from a gunshot wound but that does not make me bulletproof.

I can be "recovered" from alcoholism but that does not make me immune from poison. Alcohol is still a poison for me.

freshstart57

That gunshot wound analogy suggests that getting shot somehow just happens, completely outside of our control. The analogy fails in this context simply because drinking and getting drunk have a significant aspect of personal control and responsibility. If we want, we can drive that aspect to be overriding and prevailing against any outside suggestion to drink, or even against any internal urge. That is bulletproof.

If it's poison, and it is to me, I won't drink it anymore, any more than I would drink bleach or drain cleaner. I could, I suppose, and people do, but I won't.

anattaboy

Bo, keep em comin'--that one had me rollin on the floor.

WritingFromLife

Isn't it great to know there ARE many options to sobriety? Like staying fit---I may run, you may walk, another may play tennis all day. Which is better? Well, that's up to you. AA is awesome--so are other options. Whatever works for you. I will add AA isn't the only path to a spiritual awakening. That can come from other places, too-if that is what you are seeking.

SoberCAH

We say "one day at a time" for a reason, LaTraviata.

I try not to think about the rest of my life everyday.

If you are an alcoholic, like I certainly am, alcoholism is a fact of your life, like it or not.

But, for me, the best part of my sobriety has been the ability to lead a fairly normal life.

Sure, I have spent a good bit of time in church basements and class C office space (clubhouses) going to meetings, but my life is great.

The circumstances I deal with day in, day out don't always seem great, but my life has been a gift, which is not bad for someone who walked into a treatment center at age 31becuase his life was in shambles.

Just my ESH and thoughts, amigo.

Keep up the great work.

RobbyRobot

Yes, bullet-proof by design. Although being bullet-proof seems to be the "thing" here in my statement, it's really "by design" which I'm speaking of, since being bullet-proof is entirely relative to our own life experiences, and so, importantly, what works for me may not as easily work for others. I do believe of course we all share general commonalities of alcohol and drug abuses, but having said that, we're actually looking here at the act of sustaining a permanent and durable lasting quit. Quitting is a responsible act, and so our own personalities importantly can make or break any progressive opportunity for staying quit, imo, and personal experience.

So okay, I quit not because I was (knowingly) abusing alcohol and drugs, even though I obviously was in retrospect. At the time of my quit, alcohol was being used by me as a best-to-date solution, and this claim is important for us to think on to understand how I came to design my sober solidarity.

I attempted time and again over several years to stay quit. Completely unsuccessful in all attempts, and I'm no fool. You can bet I gave my best efforts to keep quit. No joy. So, this was almost unbelievable to me that I couldn't quit on my own. I had known about AA, but never been to a meeting. I thought of AA as a loser's fan club for thumb-suckers who said they wanted to quit but secretly they actually honestly would rather drink than quit. I felt this way because they had such a lousy record for members being successful. I also had read up on the AA text, given to me by a friend who went to AA (he would drink with me) and I concluded the text was nothing but stupid self-serving excuses and justifications to be a victim of alcoholism, which in my mind was a made-up disease. Anyways, I ignored AA completely. That is, until I went to residential rehab for 3 months. AA was a required participation, and as well, bigbook studies too. Yeah, well, whatever was my initial attitude.

I hated AA. Hated everyone in it too. Hated myself for being in rehab. Hated everyone else anyways, lol. All the hate initially sprang from not using alcohol to solve my living problems. I hated my life, and alcohol at least enabled me to more easily deceive myself that things were not as bad as I thought. Wow. Completely deluded. So, I put myself through rehab and AA because alcohol was in fact killing me from the inside out. It was quit for good, or die drunk. I really didn't want to die drunk, and I didn't want to quit drinking either, and I didn't want sobriety... so, I was completely FUBAR.

I'm an agnostic kind of guy. Sure, I believe in things and so on, yet I also hold my cards close to my heart. What I mean by this is I always have an exit door planned to dump what I have as current knowledge of if whatever more factual and sensical comes to my awareness as a better fit for me. So, I take what I need from whatever, and I leave the rest alone, and I move on with what I got.

When it came to my staying quit, I had to admit I was clueless. Sure, I could say I wasn't, but the proof was I wasn't staying quit. So, it was either admit the obvious or start copping to me being bluntly stupid. Not. So now, I had an open mind to something better than I already had. Being open to rehab and AA, even though I personally couldn't have cared less, made all the difference in my success at staying quit. As I progressed, in a few weeks I knew something was different. In a month, I accepted I was an alcoholic as described in AA text. In three months I completed my AA steps and graduated my rehab. Finally success!

Okay. Since I didn't initially care about AA, or sobriety, I only had quitting left to care about. So I did just that. I threw everything I had into just caring about quitting. No matter what, I promised myself I would do whatever it took to do the next right thing to remain abstinent. Being around all those drunks made the difference for me. What I couldn't do for myself, I could do with others who shared my dilemma - chronic alcoholism as an illness of mind, body, and spirit. For whatever reason, this worked for me like nothing ever did. So, like I promised myself, whatever it took, I would do to keep quit.

With all respect to others, I don't do AA program or fellowship much the same as most members I've come to know. I'm really not surprised, and I'm not disappointed in our differences. I'm okay with my results. I'm not going to speak much to those differences in this post, except to say I'm not in recovery, I'm recovered, and I don't do AA one-day-at-a-time, I do it as a lifestyle, and not a cure to my ills. Although its essential for my alcoholism to remain in remission, its not essential for me to worry or otherwise doubt myself or my sobriety. Yes, I have a working appreciation of alcoholism as an illness, but this sickness is more about being in remission than about me dealing with it day after day. Its been many decades since I've had to directly "deal" with my alcoholism. I do not agree with most AA members who claim they must attend to their alcoholism each and everyday. This to me means they are not actually recovered as promised. Instead, they struggle on for whatever personal satisfactions such strategy offers them. For me, it would lead me back to drinking. Its beyond curious to me that so many AA members return to drinking. I'm not surprised, knowing what I know from my own experiences and observations.

For me, its the dynamics of my alcoholism being in remission which provides the bullet-proof worthiness of my sobriety. Spiritual truths and strengths permanently chain my alcoholism down, while philosophical maxims keep me aware of what no longer is able to get me back to drinking. How this all fits together for me is entirely personal. It fits me. Sure, I use AA program, but I'm no poster child, lol. There is much I disagree with respect to how AA members apply their program. I make use of AVRT too, but I'm no purist, lol. I'm also an agnostic Christian, but I'm absolutely not religious. I'm of a mind we all walk best to the beat of our own drums. Whatever it takes to dance the dance, you know?

So for me then, putting everything into my initial quit, being open-minded to whatever it takes to stay quit, rather than chase sobriety, is what continually provides for me opportunities to move forward unconcerned about drinking.

I'm recovered, and so, this only makes good sense I'm always free of my alcoholism no matter what may come to me, or not come to me, either way, I'm good and sober. I hope this was helpful. I'm cautionary when it comes down to saying for others to do what I did and you'll get what I got. I'm more about take what you want from me, and move on, thanks.



Hey, thanks for asking about this, LaTraviata.

Boleo

I to believe "Spiritual truths and strengths permanently chain my alcoholism down" as opposed to willpower. Spiritual truths don't need to make sense to get results. The proof is in the pudding.

"Chasing sobriety" never worked for me either. Nor does "Moving forward" have anything to do with abstinence from alcohol. I walk a spiritual path ODAAT. Drinking and not-drinking are so far in my past that they are no longer part of my world.

I know it looks like I am a proselytizer for 12 step recovery. But that is only half the truth. I use AA language simply because there is a widely read book to use as a standard of reference. Taoism is what I really use to stay spiritually fit nowadays. But the language has proven to be too esoteric for even those who have shared my experience.

fini

so we have a thread full of okra and now here we have the pudding again. the pudding which supposedly has the proof in it. it keeps popping up. the pudding, not the proof.
there is no proof in a pudding.
the expression has been mistakenly shortened and is really "the proof of the pudding is in the eating".
only mentioning it because it describes so well the point of the saying: the proof is in the experience, the actual real lived experience.

holds for puddings and sobriety.

Boleo

Kind of reminds me of all the University professors who used to pronounce Taoism with a T. Then about 20 years ago, one of them actually went to China and found out it was pronounced with a D.

We Americans get a lot of phrases like that wrong. Just ask someone from Boston how to pronounce "Boston Celtics" then ask someone who actually knows how to speak Celtic pronounce "Celtic".