FourSeasons

That is a very good idea DoubleDragons. As Dr. Phil would say: "The word 'Mother' is not just a noun. It is also used as an adjective and an adverb."

courage2

Someone should do a poll -- since everyone here is a drunk/addict we can't correlate scary to addiction. But how about onset of drinking?

1. How scary was/is your mother? (1-5, from Glinda to the Wicked Witch of the West, tho I never trusted Glinda, but that's me not her)
2. When did you start drinking/using? (age in years, including from birth -- the bitch gave it to me in the infant formula, no of course she didn't breastfeed)

Cow

...oh like dragons is so hot.

Snarkbunny, my momma was nice excepting during rages where she go full on 5, so hard to pick one number. But I think I more start drinking from sexual abuse. Or, was maybe mama/papa combo platter.

courage2

Those combo platters invariably cause indigestion.

fini

sigh.
glad to hear it but not
i'll go out on more of that limb, then, at the risk of pissing you off:
i cared, but it had 'control' written all over it. not 'control' in 'i want/need power over you' but in the sense of 'i know what will help; if you just...and don't...and..."
i finally understood i'd been trying to/and convinced i could, fix his alcoholism.

that i really cared was clear. that i was tortured with that...should have been a clue earlier than it was. that this way of caring is a burden on the one you care about...oh yes oh yes. but i didn't get that then. when i finally understood that, i could start the detaching-from-the-outcome thing. i could care. just care. without the heaviness of expecting, or asking for anything. burdening the other with what my care 'entailed'. or what i 'needed' them to do or give me.

it's a painful place.

and a place of opportunity.

biminiblue

Anger at FOO.

The time when we started our addictions, the time when it could have been arrested, and the time since when we no care and keep on self-destruct because anger/resentment/pain.

There are people I am friendly with who swear their FOO was perfect and in no way influenced their drinking. I call BS, but who am I to take male cow's name in vain?

DoubleDragons

I am not sure how to rate my parents, but I have been in therapy for FOO issues. I started drinking at 15. In my family drinking alcohol was not only accepted, but kind of expected.

Cow

fini and AO, I get it. If I may quote self from own Diary Part IV:

I remembering time I was at long retreat. And retreat 'guru' was telling us story about how he try endlessly to helps his drunken gardener. Was excellent gardener, but his alcoholism was ruin his life. So guru try very, very hard to helps him: he listen to his problem, and give him all his wisdom and advices, he make many resource available to him. But, gardener continue to flounders. Then one day guru notice he really quite aggravated over whole thing and even was ready to fire gardener.

So guru meditate on it. And he say he realize that somewhere along way, he had go from "help" to "interference". He say, true help has no attachment to outcome. Is a gift. If you give advices or monies or help to somebody, that is GIFT you giving. If they not listen, or waste monies, or it not work, and you getting upset or irritated, then that about YOU, not them. At end of day, they path belong to them.

I know is easier say than done from my own experience caring for my mama when she dying of cancer. I become infuriate with her for not trying harder and taking my advices about diet and all the treatments I was researching. I took personal! Now is deep regrets, cuz was HER journey, and I add lot of unnecessary pain and frustration to it.

DoubleDragons

In facing my codie tendencies with my alcoholic mother and others who I have deemed as troubled, I have learned that focusing on other people's problems, helps me to avoid facing my own issues.

silentrun

I like that Cow. It is a little bit of letting go. I try to help my brother but in the end it is his right to do what he wants.

Gilmer

My mother was a mean-spirited, unappreciative prude who never drank: "Smoking is my only vice!"--I was determined to do absolutely everything she wagged her finger against in her sanctimony.

I worshipped my dad, on the other hand, and always bent over backwards to get attention crumbs. He spent his time out drinking with the boys at sports events and big guy-only picnics of the "Happy Days Club!" A food and sports and beerfest.

From these glimpses of my dad, I associated drinking with fun, fellowship, and a great time.

I don't blame them, because I was pretty gullible--but that's the influence I had growing up.

alphaomega

It's quite irrelevant to me if Cow accepts or rejects my words. My intention is to present another view of what appears to possibly be causing her misery. It's a "what if" you tried to think along these lines, rather then your current mindset which only appears to serve to bring more misery.

I'm detached from the outcome because it's not in my control, nor would I even want it to be. I have no vested interest in your well being, unlike Cows with her mother, other than it would be really wonderful to so you participate in living a life well lived.

But what's absolutely fascinating to me here is someone who admittedly could care less about their fellow man, has such an outpouring of love and concern flowing at her at an exponential rate.

We do love our underdogs, and our train wrecks that we just can't peel ourselves away from staring don't we ? A real study in sociology and the human condition.

Since I have effectively been told to pound sand by the author of this thread and to shut my pie hole by more, I will respectfully bow out of further interactions on this thread.

Because its starting to hurt.

And for someone who admittedly couldn't care less about you, me or any other human being, I'll take the advice to save my energy for the innocents.

Sometimes dark should just be allowed to remain in perpetual desolation and void. Hopeless and sorrowful is a sad, sad existence.

Take care buddy.

FourSeasons

^^^ No offense, Alpha, but I think you should re-read your post. IMHO, your reaction seems to be a classic example of what Cow is referring to here... Just let it go...

courage2

Moving right along, Cow, what's for dinner? Television after? Any treats?

I watched Ice Harvest (Harold Ramis, 2005) last night for the first time. It's hard not to like Oliver Platt and I loved watching Billy Bob Thornton get completely stripped of glamour, but those guys are totally and alcoholically going to blow through the money. I don't think there's a spoiler in that, but neither do I care.

RobbyRobot

((((Alpha))))

Helping others help themselves out of their addictions is never without its own misery, is my experience. How we balance what we have to offer, and what others need, is a learned skill, and in the learning mistakes of passion are inevitable. Its no small thing to discover our offerings for so and so didn't create results as intended, but rather leave us as helpers feeling unappreciated, dismayed, and even angry when things go south. And of course, we hurt too.

I think it is important we don't reproach ourselves for our failings in our passions to help one another. Better to be impassioned then to be uncaring of ourselves and others. This thread is a wonderful complexity of how addiction process and recovery challenges often work against each other in dramatic fashion as we make our contributions.

I take it with a grain of salt whenever those who suffer speak of what they care and don't care about. When people suffer long enough, their experiences eventually take on a life of their own, and this at the expense of their personality, health, and well being. Helping those who do not have a workable remedy at hand is not for the faint of heart. We do better to walk with them and share their burden rather than attempt to separate them from their suffering. Such longevity of suffering without remedy exists for well established reasons which are not discovered without due diligence of introspection of both the helper and the sufferer. It is impractical to not respect the personality of the suffer as they present to the world. This means, without getting to know someone, we risk not appreciating the real person who is in fact suffering.

How much we generalize the experiences of others speaks more to how disrespectful we are of ourselves when we examine our own lives. This in itself can cause real hurt in ourselves unsurprisingly.

I for one didn't tell you to shut your pie-hole, Alpha. I long ago elected to admire your journey in recovery. This thread doesn't tarnish my appreciation of you. In fact, it takes a lot of heart to help a person as Cow presents. I have every expectation that you will realize when we give to others who are in dire straits with no immediate remedy at their hand except their own personality and resources, things will often enough be dramatic and flowing with passion.

courage2

sound of gratitude, for RR.

FourSeasons

That is good stuff RR!! Though, I must admit, I had to read your entire post about 5 times over to finally get it (and three of those times were out-loud!)

biminiblue

See, I don't see Cow as a trainwreck at all. I don't see her as an underdog.

I actually think she is fascinating and insightful and endlessly humorous. We could all learn to not take ourselves so seriously - and I'm pointing at myself here. I can get worked up over really insignificant things. I can become completely paralyzed by something a stranger says to me for no reason that's apparent to me. So someone who can so thoroughly and perfectly capture in words the way her addiction manifests is extremely helpful for me. Intuitive journalism with a light heart.

Different perspectives. Interesting.

Cow

Is same freaking drama every thread.
And I not think is everybody sopping all over with "love and concern" for "trainwreck" Cow. Maybe they here cuz even though I confess to very ugly aspects of self, they CAN RELATE, cuz everybody got some ugly inside. Or maybe my perspectives and discussions that ensue is of some value to them. Or maybe, and is total long shot now, I actual even has few positive quality they appreciate.

PS. I NEVER asks for help. Is called "Diary of a Mad Cow" not "Please Help Cow Even If It Making You Crazy and Lose Sleep." I actual come here looking to do journal, but was no journal section. I figure I write about and work on my sh*t mostly with own self, but interaction of community has been very fecund.

gardendiva

My parents were both drunks and very self-involved. My dad was belligerent and scathing. After he left my mom remarried another alcoholic, but a much more docile one. It was kind of like being raised by a couple of house cats.