Hot and cold.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 8,709
Hot and cold.
I'm going to step out of myself for a minute.
And vent my spleen.
One thing I still can't understand, no matter what way I approach the problem, is how some of the online friendships we develop here, and in other web communities, can turn ice cold on a dime. Like blind lightning.
I'm certainly including myself in this. There are dear friends I can't bring myself to communicate with any longer, for reasons that are some days crystal clear, and some days clear as mud.
Is it only personalities? The imperfection of the medium? What?
How one minute, we can laugh together like school children, and the next be like distant relatives...
And we try to ask for answers, and we don't get any.
I know this, because I've refused to give such answers.
How can 2D friendships and relationships turn like that?
And I know that 99% of all this might be a question of perception.
But I feel that this is a case where 1% occupies more space than it should.
And it bugs me to no end.
End of vent.
Spleen closed.
And vent my spleen.
One thing I still can't understand, no matter what way I approach the problem, is how some of the online friendships we develop here, and in other web communities, can turn ice cold on a dime. Like blind lightning.
I'm certainly including myself in this. There are dear friends I can't bring myself to communicate with any longer, for reasons that are some days crystal clear, and some days clear as mud.
Is it only personalities? The imperfection of the medium? What?
How one minute, we can laugh together like school children, and the next be like distant relatives...
And we try to ask for answers, and we don't get any.
I know this, because I've refused to give such answers.
How can 2D friendships and relationships turn like that?
And I know that 99% of all this might be a question of perception.
But I feel that this is a case where 1% occupies more space than it should.
And it bugs me to no end.
End of vent.
Spleen closed.
Nature Girl
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: By The Lake
Posts: 60,328
There are dear friends I can't bring myself to communicate with any longer, for reasons that are some days crystal clear, and some days clear as mud.
Melody Beattie says that it is very frustrating to expect something from someone who has nothing to give, and maybe the reverse is true also...it's hard to give something to someone who isn't emotionally available to receive it.
I'm babbling, it's very early, but I think it all boils down to communication.
Hugs
Ann
Member
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,955
Hot and cold.
The first thing that comes to mind is theatrics.
As in high drama.
In my lived experience (to borrow Dan's term) healthy relationships don't thrive when high drama is a constant.
In healthy relationships, people talk through their difficulties.
A healthy relationship doesn't "turn".
The two people involved meet a bump in the road and figure out how to ride it through together.
Ann's right, it's about communication.
Communication can't exist when one person is talking and the other person isn't listening.
Communication can't exist when emotional walls are built to "keep someone out".
Communication can't exist when the two people involved in a relationship are no longer able to meet at a halfway point on any given issue.
Hot and cold.
Black and white.
All or nothing.
Theatrics.
In my humble and still recovering opinion, healthy relationships can't thrive with those dynamics in place.
The first thing that comes to mind is theatrics.
As in high drama.
In my lived experience (to borrow Dan's term) healthy relationships don't thrive when high drama is a constant.
In healthy relationships, people talk through their difficulties.
A healthy relationship doesn't "turn".
The two people involved meet a bump in the road and figure out how to ride it through together.
Ann's right, it's about communication.
Communication can't exist when one person is talking and the other person isn't listening.
Communication can't exist when emotional walls are built to "keep someone out".
Communication can't exist when the two people involved in a relationship are no longer able to meet at a halfway point on any given issue.
Hot and cold.
Black and white.
All or nothing.
Theatrics.
In my humble and still recovering opinion, healthy relationships can't thrive with those dynamics in place.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally Posted by Ann
I'm babbling, it's very early, but I think it all boils down to communication.
Hugs
Ann
Hugs
Ann
Nature Girl
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: By The Lake
Posts: 60,328
Originally Posted by Doug
Yep, thats a good point. As is honesty. Being straight with the "friends" (and relatives) involved, betraying a trust, percieved or real, does major damage, and if theres no communication about it, its dead.
Hugs
Ann
JUST DO IT!!
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Here Or There
Posts: 7,612
IMO it is truly hard to get true friends, there may be a lot of acquaintances but as far as true friends go that is hard. True friend to me are those who stick around no matter what happens. It is like a dog that loves you no matter what, like my HP that will always be around whether or not I think I deserve it. I think most of all until we can actually be our own best friend then there is little chance of that happening.
I know when I first got here to SR, I hated myself, I hated the world and everyone in it. Did I truly hate it? I don't think so, I think that I was going through that PAWS thing. YOU people said that you would love me until I could love myself. Is that true? I think to a lot of extent it is. Do I Vic love myself today? Ummmmm yeah most of the time, but it takes time. I am very happy with who I am becoming, and some people actually like who I am today, Imagine that.
I truly believe that if they are true friends that these little things that upset us wont stand in the way of friendship IMO>>I forgot one of my true friends said to me one time "Vic, if you could have as many true friends as you have fingers on one hand you would have the world!"
Love Vic
I know when I first got here to SR, I hated myself, I hated the world and everyone in it. Did I truly hate it? I don't think so, I think that I was going through that PAWS thing. YOU people said that you would love me until I could love myself. Is that true? I think to a lot of extent it is. Do I Vic love myself today? Ummmmm yeah most of the time, but it takes time. I am very happy with who I am becoming, and some people actually like who I am today, Imagine that.
I truly believe that if they are true friends that these little things that upset us wont stand in the way of friendship IMO>>I forgot one of my true friends said to me one time "Vic, if you could have as many true friends as you have fingers on one hand you would have the world!"
Love Vic
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 8,709
Originally Posted by Ms B
Be the bigger person and extend an apology.
If I knew what to apologize for.
Originally Posted by Doug
and if theres no communication about it, its dead.
And that's too bad, Doug.
alconaut
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Motor City
Posts: 729
Sometimes, relationships hit sort of a stasis.... that being true for 2d as well as outside relationships. I think it's normal. When this happens, it seems indicative that space is needed. Just because there is no communiction, doesn't mean one or both parties isn't reflecting upon and growing throughout this time period.
I know this has happened several times in my own life, with many people. I think about my best friend growing up. Sometimes we would just tire of having been with one another, and after a little time apart, things would freshen up some.
Sometimes relatonships are never mended, through no fault of our own. People have limitations.... whatever they may be.
And there's nothing wrong with not being able to communicate at any given time. It allows us space to grow. We simply cannot give to everyone all the time.
As far as 2d relationships go with regard to where I am in life, I can only think and type as fast as my mind and fingers will allow me to. It's time consuming. I, for one, am not a fast typist. Then, we have our outside lives as well.
(I hope those whose pm's I haven't yet returned can undertand this, and just because I haven't written yet, doesn't mean I'm not thinking of you.
)
I know this has happened several times in my own life, with many people. I think about my best friend growing up. Sometimes we would just tire of having been with one another, and after a little time apart, things would freshen up some.
Sometimes relatonships are never mended, through no fault of our own. People have limitations.... whatever they may be.
And there's nothing wrong with not being able to communicate at any given time. It allows us space to grow. We simply cannot give to everyone all the time.
As far as 2d relationships go with regard to where I am in life, I can only think and type as fast as my mind and fingers will allow me to. It's time consuming. I, for one, am not a fast typist. Then, we have our outside lives as well.
(I hope those whose pm's I haven't yet returned can undertand this, and just because I haven't written yet, doesn't mean I'm not thinking of you.
)
Member
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: out there...
Posts: 2,653
a) yes
b) no
c) none of the above
d) all of the above.
I pick d..
This made me examine some of my online relationships as well as my face to face relationships....
goes back to a cliche that I heard at a meeting.
my satisfaction is inversely proportional to my level of expectation.
the closer I can live moment to moment bending with the wind, swimming with the lifestream, the more I can gaze with wonder at the happy coincidence.
I hit a bump in a relationship this week... I tried to compensate for a limiting factor by overextension into an area I have more to give in.
Took me 2 days to ask if I had crowded or smothered.
communication is a part of things, but it's not the complete solution.
I used to think that "acceptance is the key" was overstated because I heard it eleventy six times a day. I'm pretty sure that it's actually underated by most of us, no matter how much we hear and practice it.
Where we dwell is where we live.
"we never talk anymore"
might mean we have nothing to say
which might in turn mean we have such knowledge of each other that we don't even need words to communicate
or it could mean that we can anticipate reestablishing or even developing a new and evolved level of communication.
I have friends who have come and gone in my life and some who have returned and others who have never been out of reach.
So whats the problem?
b) no
c) none of the above
d) all of the above.
I pick d..
This made me examine some of my online relationships as well as my face to face relationships....
goes back to a cliche that I heard at a meeting.
my satisfaction is inversely proportional to my level of expectation.
the closer I can live moment to moment bending with the wind, swimming with the lifestream, the more I can gaze with wonder at the happy coincidence.
I hit a bump in a relationship this week... I tried to compensate for a limiting factor by overextension into an area I have more to give in.
Took me 2 days to ask if I had crowded or smothered.
communication is a part of things, but it's not the complete solution.
I used to think that "acceptance is the key" was overstated because I heard it eleventy six times a day. I'm pretty sure that it's actually underated by most of us, no matter how much we hear and practice it.
Where we dwell is where we live.
"we never talk anymore"
might mean we have nothing to say
which might in turn mean we have such knowledge of each other that we don't even need words to communicate
or it could mean that we can anticipate reestablishing or even developing a new and evolved level of communication.
I have friends who have come and gone in my life and some who have returned and others who have never been out of reach.
So whats the problem?
Member
Join Date: May 2003
Location: El Paso, Tx
Posts: 5,862
...because I'm struggling with some of those myself, I think I'll go finish baking cookies and wrapping presents before I further respond as I fear I may end up lashing out rather then communicate appropriatly, 30 minute rule. Have a nice day.
alconaut
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Motor City
Posts: 729
Something else I want toss in here: it helps to remember that online communications move slowly. Sometimes, it takes a considerable amount of time to communicate online, as compared to what might only take an hour in offline relationships. Then too, there's lack of non-verbal cues.
It's not the same.
Not that you didn't already know this stuff.
It's not the same.
Not that you didn't already know this stuff.
alconaut
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Motor City
Posts: 729
Originally Posted by Chy
...because I'm struggling with some of those myself, I think I'll go finish baking cookies and wrapping presents before I further respond as I fear I may end up lashing out rather then communicate appropriatly, 30 minute rule. Have a nice day.
I hope you feel better, Chy (you will).
Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: London
Posts: 1,229
I like to think that I would try and get through anything that my pride would be screaming at me to walk away from. Just changing that little bit to allow the relationship to carry on and learning from why we fell out in the first place.
I think Wilsons moral inventory can be a great use when things "flare up" because it gives so much balance.
But, as has been said, sometimes it just flares up and does not go out.
Although I have a great feel for the people here, and think of them greatly, I try to remember that a whole aspect of a relationship is not included: that being actually physically there together!
I think Wilsons moral inventory can be a great use when things "flare up" because it gives so much balance.
But, as has been said, sometimes it just flares up and does not go out.
Although I have a great feel for the people here, and think of them greatly, I try to remember that a whole aspect of a relationship is not included: that being actually physically there together!
Don't get undies in a bunch
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: South Shore MA
Posts: 7,120
2D is the key.
With a push of a button, things can go away.
I have seen many state over my eight years on line... "its not real, it is the internet" As they don't take into account...It is real people with real feelings and emotions on the other side of that chat window.
Like the playing of a video game. You play your heart out and then you get tired of playing it.
The compassion I have inside, or maybe a mix of compassion and codie, I have bent over backwards for people, poured my heart out, and then we don't talk any more. Problem solved, my friendship wasn't needed any more.
It is a lot more complicated then how I posted it and in some cases, it is simpler then I posted it, but I have found that without that 3rd dimention of F2F, I can press a button or they can press a button and not need deal with the reality that a F2F would give.
On line, getting to know a person is like...one week equals a yearr or more F2F.
A month worth of friendship on line can cover 5 years F2F. In F2F life, friends come and go, it just doesn't happen at such a fast baud rate as one line. Life is mirrored, just at a faster pace on line.
Simple but complicated....99% perspective, with 1% traveling at the speed of your modem.
With a push of a button, things can go away.
I have seen many state over my eight years on line... "its not real, it is the internet" As they don't take into account...It is real people with real feelings and emotions on the other side of that chat window.
Like the playing of a video game. You play your heart out and then you get tired of playing it.
The compassion I have inside, or maybe a mix of compassion and codie, I have bent over backwards for people, poured my heart out, and then we don't talk any more. Problem solved, my friendship wasn't needed any more.
It is a lot more complicated then how I posted it and in some cases, it is simpler then I posted it, but I have found that without that 3rd dimention of F2F, I can press a button or they can press a button and not need deal with the reality that a F2F would give.
On line, getting to know a person is like...one week equals a yearr or more F2F.
A month worth of friendship on line can cover 5 years F2F. In F2F life, friends come and go, it just doesn't happen at such a fast baud rate as one line. Life is mirrored, just at a faster pace on line.
Simple but complicated....99% perspective, with 1% traveling at the speed of your modem.
On a tear
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Volcano Country!
Posts: 3,221
I agree that the medium is part of the problem.
I provide application support to some state agencys - you should see the mess some have created with email... just because it is 2d and not 3d. Not everyone is skilled at conveying information in a typwritten format... they cannot convey emotion or emphasis or humor. It is a learned skill.
I have seen little incidences grow into name calling diatribes between grown, educated professional men! Stupid, stupid, stupid... and especially in the arena we work in - ALL email correspondence is part of the public record. Codependant that I am, I found myself trying to mend fences in one relationship - it worked, but not well. I threatened to take away their email if they didn't stop using it to communicate... they sat less than 100 feet apart!
Also in cyber-communication, I can be thoughtful and rational - while in real life I am more spontaneous and sometimes irrational.
So there are good things that come of cyber-communication.
But I am sometimes more honest, too. And that can make me uncomfortable... so then I might back off for a while.
And being on the puter takes time away from my real life, and sometimes I just need to tend to those 3d folks more than I can afford to tend to the 2d ones. Sad, but true.
I've long wondered how it works when 2d friends meet in 3d... I know that relationships are about so much more than what people say and do. Hell, I think how someone smells influences relationshiops - and I never get that in cyberspace... grin. Which makes me think about the SR retreat in Palm Springs... I am just dying to smell some of ya!
I provide application support to some state agencys - you should see the mess some have created with email... just because it is 2d and not 3d. Not everyone is skilled at conveying information in a typwritten format... they cannot convey emotion or emphasis or humor. It is a learned skill.
I have seen little incidences grow into name calling diatribes between grown, educated professional men! Stupid, stupid, stupid... and especially in the arena we work in - ALL email correspondence is part of the public record. Codependant that I am, I found myself trying to mend fences in one relationship - it worked, but not well. I threatened to take away their email if they didn't stop using it to communicate... they sat less than 100 feet apart!
Also in cyber-communication, I can be thoughtful and rational - while in real life I am more spontaneous and sometimes irrational.
So there are good things that come of cyber-communication. But I am sometimes more honest, too. And that can make me uncomfortable... so then I might back off for a while.
And being on the puter takes time away from my real life, and sometimes I just need to tend to those 3d folks more than I can afford to tend to the 2d ones. Sad, but true.
I've long wondered how it works when 2d friends meet in 3d... I know that relationships are about so much more than what people say and do. Hell, I think how someone smells influences relationshiops - and I never get that in cyberspace... grin. Which makes me think about the SR retreat in Palm Springs... I am just dying to smell some of ya!
To Life!
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 9,293
It's a good question. I've thought about that very thing myself.
Some people I choose to no longer correspond with because I've been repeatedly attacked. And received no answer when I asked outright what the problem was. Others, I'm afraid to correspond with, though I'd like to, for the same reason. And again got no answer when asked.
I'm just saddened by it. People whom I once cherished, now foreign.
But, I cannot be responsible for thier actions, nor their thoughts of me. That's outside of my control. I know I've asked. I've done my part. There's not anything else for me to do if they refuse to correspond. But, I can refuse to be abused. In 2D as well as 3D.
And, when *I* do something wrong, I can apologise.That much, I know I've tried to do when I understand I've done wrong.
So, again, seems like the lack of communication once more. Sadly. I wish it weren't so.
Shalom!
Some people I choose to no longer correspond with because I've been repeatedly attacked. And received no answer when I asked outright what the problem was. Others, I'm afraid to correspond with, though I'd like to, for the same reason. And again got no answer when asked.
I'm just saddened by it. People whom I once cherished, now foreign.
But, I cannot be responsible for thier actions, nor their thoughts of me. That's outside of my control. I know I've asked. I've done my part. There's not anything else for me to do if they refuse to correspond. But, I can refuse to be abused. In 2D as well as 3D.
And, when *I* do something wrong, I can apologise.That much, I know I've tried to do when I understand I've done wrong.
So, again, seems like the lack of communication once more. Sadly. I wish it weren't so.
Shalom!
Psalm 118:24
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: ILLINOIS
Posts: 15,203
LOL
Dan, I'm glad you included yourself I'm guilty as well to a certain extent. I'm not sure to what degree the cold and hot runs. Got a guy I e-mail used to be on another site with. As a matter of fact, Chy knows the guy I'm talking about. LOL We were chatting on ***** messenger about something. I asked him a Q. or something. Not only didn't he ever get back he eventually signed out LOL WTF.
On line friend do not replace friends we see every day at least not for the most part. It's nice to meet people from here. I've met Bikerprincess on here spoke at her home group. Another guy on here that, I became friends with, stopped by on his way to California.
You know, we've talked on the phone a few times. Matter of fact, I don't have your new PH. # !!!
The fact that, this is a diversion in some respects to our daily lives. I've been distracted by phone calls, people stopping buy, glitches in the p.c.
We all need to keep a balance with being on line and our normal routines. I can only imagine being up north in Canada on wintery night how invaluable being on line can be. The past few days winter has struck here in IL. I've spent more time then usual on here if, that seems possible.
Anyway, I've considered getting to know you a pleasure. You've a vast amount of intelligence and have a good grasp of AA.
Enough of my b.s
Dan, I'm glad you included yourself
I'm guilty as well to a certain extent. I'm not sure to what degree the cold and hot runs. Got a guy I e-mail used to be on another site with. As a matter of fact, Chy knows the guy I'm talking about. LOL We were chatting on ***** messenger about something. I asked him a Q. or something. Not only didn't he ever get back he eventually signed out LOL WTF.On line friend do not replace friends we see every day at least not for the most part. It's nice to meet people from here. I've met Bikerprincess on here spoke at her home group. Another guy on here that, I became friends with, stopped by on his way to California.
You know, we've talked on the phone a few times. Matter of fact, I don't have your new PH. # !!!
The fact that, this is a diversion in some respects to our daily lives. I've been distracted by phone calls, people stopping buy, glitches in the p.c.
We all need to keep a balance with being on line and our normal routines. I can only imagine being up north in Canada on wintery night how invaluable being on line can be. The past few days winter has struck here in IL. I've spent more time then usual on here if, that seems possible.
Anyway, I've considered getting to know you a pleasure. You've a vast amount of intelligence and have a good grasp of AA.
Enough of my b.s
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