getr345

@ OP: What alcoholism and drug addiction and smoking and compulsive gambling and sex addiction (etc..) all have in common is that they are different forms of the disease called ADDICTION.

Think about the disease of cancer for a minute.

It takes many forms, affecting many people in different ways (just like addiction) ...what they all have in common is cancer but prostate cancer is NOT the same as breast cancer (and alcoholism is NOT the same as gambling addiction or heroin addiction for that matter) so those suffering from either form of the above mentioned cancer (or addiction) would likely go to different doctors, identify with different people who share their form of the common disease, and attempt to remedy their form of the disease in a way that is BEST for them.

There are similarities yes, but also KEY differences, in both the manifestation of the particular form of the disease AND the best form of treatment.

LetsGoJets

Hi Lindsey. I disagree 100% with this for a few reasons. I have been to NA and AA and IMHO, the actual plan of recovery, which is the steps, is much more commonly used in AA. In NA, it's a lot of "therapy" where u go and talk about your problems, those awful slogans, go to a lot of meetings and avoid "triggers." In AA, i have found the fellowship that I crave. I live on a spiritual basis and my life revolves around my spiritual condition and helping other drunks. I think NA and AA belong seperate, but I think NA would be much more successful if they changed the format of their meetings, and offered more of a solution rather than giving bad info out to addict who are dying.

I hear in NA that "if you dont use today you're a winner." that is absolutely horrible information for the real alcoholic/addict. Our Big Book clearly states that the elimination of our drinking is a beginning and that a much more important demonstration lies ahead in our homes, occupations and affairs. So in other words, just attending meetings and behaving the same way I did before attempting to get sober will not yield much success.

Also, I have trouble identifying with drug addicts. I think drug addicts and alcoholics behavior patterns vary. For example, drug addicts go to more extremes for their DOC than alcoholics do for booze. Prostituting, stealing, etc..much more common amongst addicts than alcoholics. Also, remember that drugs are still illegal at the end of the day and alcohol isnt. I am not saying alcoholics are better or worse people than addicts, BUT, i think the illness is different from the scenario that drug addicts tend to go to more extremes than alcoholics to get to their DOC and they may face more social problems than the alcoholics because they engage in illegal activities that involve them getting their DOC...and I think from a sponsorship scenario, I would be more comfortable being sponsored by an alcoholic and i think addicts should be sponsored by addicts-- i just think that would make the recovery rates better, and help more with identification and hammering home the powerlessness and unmanagability in the 1st step. When someone starts to give a drug-a-log in an AA meeting I want to scream. that belongs in NA, CA etc, and that Tradition is disregarded everywhere, and it shouldnt be, because how is an alcoholic supposed to identify with someone who talks about drugs? Its a different life. If I go to NA i dont share about alcohol, I keep to my experience with drugs-- in other words, I respect the house I am in and I am not killing an addict in an NA meeting by talking about things that dont belong in NA. I would tell someone one on one that if they are an addict they need to be taken through the Big Book by another addict and have a spiritual experience, or else they are gonna die. I do believe my primary purpose goes past AA and I always try to at least get a new addict hooked up with a sponsor who can help them.

DayTrader

I remember having a lot of things completely twisted when I started working on recovery myself. I had a lot of ideas of how things could/should be fixed. Obviously Bill understood this and was thinking about it when he wrote "selfishness - self-centeredness! That we think is the root of our troubles." I've got a history of thinking "my way" of doing just about everything is better...but if it was so good to begin with.....how'd I end up in a 12 Step recovery program? What I need to do is continually recognize that "my way" is what got me here and I'd probably be better off if I continued to work a program of recovery with proven results the way it was meant to be worked and try not to put too much of my own mistaken judgments/beliefs into the mix.

First off, I know it "seems" like everything should be grouped together but, as has been stated by ppl in posts before mine, this theory has been tested and the results were the alcoholics weren't getting/staying sober nor were the drug addicts. Each group has a "singleness of purpose." It's best if we only speak from our own experence and not from theory. Hell, it was our own theories on life that got us here in the first place. AA is on no pedestal but, through experience in the real world, AA has learned that one recovered alcoholic working with another recovering alcoholic has some magic in it. When that same recovered AA tries to carry a message outside his area of experience........well......there's just no magic anymore.

Clean = not taking drugs/drinking/"using" but it certainly doesn't mean you're "sober." Being sober is altogether different. Addiction affects us in a 3-part way: physically, mentally and spiritually. "Clean" refers to the physical area only......Sobriety covers the whole ball of wax. From what I've seen, you can have all the "clean time" in the world and still be miserable. I'm in recovery to NOT feel miserable anymore so for me, I want to be sober - more healthy than not in the physical aspect, the mental aspect and the spiritual aspect.


Get yourself a strong sponsor.....someone's who's done the stuff you've done and is living a life now that you'd like to have. It'll do wonders to your own recovery.

0sT

This is not true; alcohol affects your nervous system, your internal organs, and the receptors in your brain in different ways. That's why there are different drugs, and different drugs do damage in different ways.

Also in our society alcohol is legal and can be sold anywhere, also it is fashionable to see people drinking whether on TV or in the movies whereas drug use is differently portrayed. Most of the time alcohol is seen as safe, anybody can drink it... I think it makes alcoholism different.

justsomeguy

I have only read the TS's first post. I have not read everything in here, so forgive me if I'm going to make this seem too simple, but I think I can solve your problem REAL QUICK.

Go to an AA meeting, a decent size one, 30-200 people ask if you can ask by a show of hands how many people there have used drugs.

My guess is %90 have, so drugs are part of %90 of alcoholics stories, and AA rooms would be pretty empty if we kept the drug users out.

I think you are thinking your way into a problem that is really not there, or at least much smaller than you think.

Patm

I'm hearing a lot of "you think you're better than me"

Nobody is better than anybody. That's the whole friggn program!

A person whose had a huge chip on their shoulder must fight to become a better person daily. Better is not just clean, sober. Better is just better. Not better than anybody else, just better than THEY, THEMSELVES are today. and the next day and so on and so on. When they suddenly feel they're ALL BETTER they are essentually..screwed.

That's the entire program in a nutshell.

Che

I think that is a defeatist attitude and people have to believe they have the power to choose. In the end, no one can force you to stop drinking. It's illegal to lock someone up in a room, and therefore if that someone wants a drink, they can get it. That's the freedom of our society. It will help both your self-esteem and your future success if you know you are deciding not to drink.

I think, as many people in this thread have replied, that alcohol is not like other drugs. It just isn't really comparable to heroine, or cocaine, and thus when someone is concerned about their recovery, they should be allowed to speak specifically about what it is they're addicted to. A person who drinks a coffee twice a day could be called a caffeine addict. If you called that same person a drug addict, you'd be technically correct, but you'd be misleading. It's just the way language works. Sure, drinking that much caffeine is unhealthy, but it's totally different from what you do to your body with another drug. The same goes for alcohol. It's bad, but it isn't the same.

I also think that the way in which people are addicted differs from drug to drug. I have a friend that smokes, but my advice and experience is at best consoling to a vague weakness, since alcohol and nicotine are very different things. I can relate in ways to his mental addiction, but if I tell him the real reason I quit alcohol was just because I felt like it was a waste of my time, and it didn't make me happy anymore, how can he relate? Smoking is maybe 5 minutes of his time, where drinking was saying goodbye to a whole night. Smoking probably still relaxes him because his body is dependent on nicotine, alcohol just made me feel sick. It's just not useful information to him, other than that someone he respects has had problems too. I don't think it puts my addiction on a pedestal, I think it just admits it's not the same.

nancylee

I am reading "Rational Recovery" and I do agree that going to AA has been very bad for me. It makes me feel powerless, and when I feel powerless, I cannot do anything for myself. I do believe and need the help from my Higher Power, but I also believe that God helps those who help themselves.

I quit smoking with the help of quitnet.com, which makes you say NOPE - Not One Puff Ever. No matter what, I am NEVER going to smoke again. Well yesterday, on my 6 year anniversary of quitting smoking, I went to an outpatient interview and the counselor suggested that since I have given AA a year and have some serious moral and ethical issues with it, I should read Rational Recovery.

And it does resonate with me: the Addictive Voice is called The Beast; on quitnet.com, we called it the Nicodemon. You must tell it No, Never again.

I took that vow, I am never going to drink again. No matter what. No matter what happens. I don't think I have another quit in me, and I think that drinking is going to kill me.

My two cents

Dee74

I've never read much RR or gone to AA but I hope this approach fits you better Nancy

I think it's always best to focus on the positives in the message - stuff tearing other programmes down turns me off, frankly.

Whatever you find that works - work it to the hilt
D

recoveringfaith

Genetics can also cause one to be predisposed to ANY type of addictive behavior, including the tendency to abuse drugs. Research is still being done on this. I'm reading the book Beyond the Influence, and there are genetic predispositions linked to compulsive, addictive behavior in general.

I can see both sides of this debate, however, the bottom line is that ethyl alcohol is a DRUG. Just look it up on wikipedia. It's "one of the oldest recreational drugs." Yes, it's a drug. We became powerless over the DRUG alcohol. We should honestly strive to identify with others in recovery no matter what their DRUG of choice is.

recoveringfaith

Thank you for this post!! You are right on the money. I've gone to countless AA meetings in which many alcoholics have also struggled with drug use. We are all fighting cravings for mind/body altering substances. I think it's much more important to identify rather than compare.

At the same time, I can see the need for separate 12 step groups for alcoholics & other drug users, just because there are some experiences that are unique to both groups (which have been mentioned in previous posts), and it's important to be in an environment where people "get" each other.

sampar

For me its simple BILL W & the traditions of AA are there for a reason. If ppl spent more time on their soberity in stead of coming up with solutions of how AA should be they would be better off. FFS has history shown us nothing ppl will mess things up given any chance....................either do the programme as it stands or move on.

mumbai78

Great post. I agree. There are not too many NA meetings and so obviously some have to go to AA meetings.

And I don't agree with those that think that NAers going to AA should restrict their shares to their recovery only and not their using. It is natural to talk about your using/drinking when you share, how can you possibly not ?

yeahgr8

Bit of a tongue in cheek comment coming but i would like to restrict both addicts and alcoholics from sharing about their drinking or using save for the newcomers first meeting and share about what the hell they are doing to recover or stay recovered!

Oh wait hang on there called Big Book Study meetings...my bad;-)

On a serious note though you are spot on the pure alcoholic and addict are a dying breed...cross addiciton reigns in today's society...i know two pure alcoholics that have come into AA where i got sober in the last year...

mumbai78

Very true mate. In my case I got clean off opiates and thought from then onwards I would stick to booze as it was relatively safe. Turns out i got licked by booze as well..I've never been to NA meetings actually, only AA. However I have come across a lot of hard core drug addicts who claim that the drug that took them to their bottom was alcohol...

I'm totally with those who say that AA should stick to booze and NA is the place for drug addictions. However I do not think it is right to turn our back on an NAer who does not have many options in the area he lives.

Around 10 years ago both NA and AA were thriving in India. The church in the area I lived used to house both AA and NA meetings every Sunday evening in classrooms that were next to each other..I've been given to believe that the NA meeting has since been discontinued. I have twice emailed the NA India website and have not received a response ever. AA on the other hand is still thriving and getting stronger here. Now what option would a drug addict have ? Surely we can't expect him to travel around the city looking for a meeting.

Norther

I apply this test. While I have abused drugs in the past, I can easily say (and believe),"I'll never do drugs again." I cannot say (and believe) that I will never drink again. I can only say that I will not drink today. I am an alcoholic who used drugs recreationally (weird term!), but I am not addicted to them.

Just to be clear: I no longer use either of them - I understand that drugs could gateway me to alcohol.

Mark75

Norther... I hear ya man. I loved stimulants and abused the hell out of them and one might say I was addicted. But my relationship with alcohol was different.

So for many reasons, many of them discussed in this thread. I don't know if I'll ever be able to get into words why I do not and will not say I am an addict (and it's NOT because of any stigma, or lack of one...) but I can say I am alcoholic.

As far as drugs being a gateway to alcohol, there is no doubt in my mind that my dependence/addiction to stimulants contributed to my alcoholism.

Mark