Boleo

AA Words of Wisdom #6:

The idea that alcoholics, drug addicts, sex addicts, overeaters, smokers, etc, etc, should all just go to AA meetings because a disease is a disease is a disease...was started by a treatment center that only had one van.

Freedom1990

I don't see any wiggly part about it. It doesn't say anything about an honest desire, just a desire to stop using.

lizw

I heard it used to orginally say 'a honest desire to stop drinking' and that's what Bill wanted but everyone else said it was too harsh, so they took out the word 'honest'.

I think further the reasoning also went along the lines that alcoholics are generally 'dishonest' and really at the end of the day, who cares why someone comes (sent by the court etc...) it's more important that they stay.

Alraihani

If you dont want what we have to offer, dont worry youre not gonna get it. AA is open to anyone who is suffering...in my noble opinion.

Alraihani

Wrong idea. There needs to be more of a unity amongst all 12step fellowships.

Also if im an alcoholic but im also a drug addict and compulsive gambler am i allowed to.talj about that at a meeting if it threatens my sobriety or if im talking about my story. Or for some wierd reason i should say other substances or outside issues out of fear of someones ignorance and intolerance.

NoelleR

Well, AA does have its 'Singleness of Purpose.' You can read it on their website; here's the link..................:

http://www.aa.org/en_pdfs/f-13_fall-winter02.pdf

About the drugs, or mentioning during shares at meetings......of course lots of floks jave drugs in their stories (and sex, and gsmbling, and I'm sure a whole lot more). When telling one's story we speak in a 'general' way what it was like; what happned; and what it's like now. Drugs may be mentioned, but not the focus of the talk.

This would go for meetings too.....yes, the only requirement for 'membership in AA' is that the alcoholic have a desire to stop drinking, but meetings have group consciences to decide if they're going to be an open or closed meeting (open's for all who may be interested, and closed are for alcholics. Here's a link to AA's publication BOX 459, from Feb/Mar 1998 where it discusses open snd closed meetings...........................:

http://www.aa.org/en_pdfs/en_box459_feb-mar98.pdf

As to what you said about 'outside issues' threatening one's sobriety. I've always found it best to just share that I'm struggling (no need to even mention why). Folks in the meeting should be able help with suggestions w/o knowing the why's and wherefore's; they should be able to help with some AA solutions------if it's a 'solutions' and not a 'problems' meeting.

I can always go to my NA meeting, or ACA, or Alanon, or wherefore for specific solutions to the specific problems......

AA even has a pamphlet regarding this very thing. It's called 'Problems Other Than Alcohol; it's on AA's website; here's the link...............:

http://www.aa.org/pdf/products/P-35_...hanAlcohol.pdf


All set now, eh.......

(o:
NoelleR

Alraihani

I think this is an outdated way of thinking that is fear based. What is AA afraid of?

Alraihani

Plus ive read nowhere that we should substitute the word heroin for another word like a small child. Im glad i can go to aa meetings with black and jewish people in modern aa.

NoelleR

Singleness has kept AA around, while others who tried to be all things to all people disappeared (the Washingtonions, for one).

(o:

NoelleR

Huh?

bbthumper

What do you think happened to predecessors of AA? They took on problems other than alcohol. Singleness of purpose is VITAL to the survival of AA. Read up on the traditions for more info on this please. It is important info for all AAs to know. Thinking that we can solve all problems is a dangerous thing.

Best wishes.

Alraihani

To compare the washingtonians ofbthe mid 1800s to cotemporary aa of 2013 is sily on so many levels. I mean we have electricity, internet, automobiles etc that would prevent the demise of aa. And correct me if im wrong but didn't the washingtonians die because they started taking stands on outside issues such as politics and religion?

Alraihani

Sorry for the typos, typing on the cell phone while im doing service for an aa meetinf. Im actually going to meet my sponsee who is a pure and respectable alcoholic even though i was a heroin addict along with alcohol abuse

Gottalife

Possibly AA is afraid of doing more harm than good by claiming to have a solution to every other compulisve behaviour. I have "cross addicted" friends in AA who can see both sides of this picture and I understand why they can have a sympathetic view to the all inclusive approach.

But then I was in the rooms in the days before NA and OA were founded, when we did try to be all things to all people. I have never forgotten the alcoholic housewife at her first meeting being treated to the most outrageous junky stories in a language I didn't understand, presented in a aggresive manner- these fellows were out to take over the meeting and impose "one size fits all" (and it had to be their size). I had no idea what they were talking about, they may as well be speaking Chinese.

The poor lady was frightened half to death and at the end of the meeting left, almost at a run, looking over her shoulder - we never saw her again.
Did she survive? Who knows, but she didn't get to hear AA's message.

This group fell apart after a while. It forgot tradition 5, it's primary purpose of carrying the message to the alcoholic who still suffers.

The fellowship is founded on the principle of one alcoholic talking to another. Thank God when I was 12 stepped I got to talk with another alcoholic who spoke my language in a way I could understand. He was able to reach me in a way no non-alcoholic ever could.

In terms of who meets tradition 3, page 92 in Working With Others places the responsibility on the 12 stepper. "If you are satisfied he is a real alcoholic, begin...." -continue working with him. If not, better hand him over to someone who is actually qualified to deal with what ever problem he had.

these days we don't seem to bother so much with the 12 step call, we just refer people to a meeting - as a result we get to see a wide variety of people and problems, only some of whom are we equipped to help.

Alraihani

So if i think someone was just a hard drinker and not a real alcoholic i can kick them out? And i would tell anyone alcoholic and addict to focus on the solution and not war stories. Whenever i hear Josh H from Toronto speak I think he helps people instead of hurting people.

bbthumper

No. We don't have the right to kick anyone out. But I do believe we have the responsibility to 1) help newcomers figure out if they are alcoholic or not and 2) if they aren't help them get the help they need. There are other fellowships for problems other than alcohol. we don't kick people out, but we can point them in the right direction.

Alraihani

Unfortunatly NA is NOT the same as AA. Im an alcoholic and a drug addict, ive been a member of both. The basic text is good lit but its no where near to be as powerful as the big book. The syep working guide in NA is basically like step working guides you get in treatment, educational but not effective. NA meetings from my experience are not that great. The point is if your a drug addict thats serious about recovery youd be of more use to AA than a hard drinker. A real alcoholic has more in common with a real drug addict than a hard drinker. I agree AA shouldn't be all things to all people, but if you suffrr fron a disease that manifests itself through a physical allergy, mental obsession, and spiritual malady, than your a real alcoholic in my opinion. And i dont care if that substance is alcohol, cocaine, heroin, oxycontin etc

Alraihani

I also see your from Cleveland. I wonder what Clarence S (the man i credit as a founder of AA) would think. I wonder if Dr. Bob had his way and never let Clarence S start the first true AA meeting for all those damn catholics that werent allowed to attend the oxford group. The point im trying to make is that times change and old ideas must be discarded. And dont worry most addicts that arent serious about getting well go to NA. I wish the same can be said about hard drinkers who think just going to meetings is the AA program.

bbthumper

IMO a recovered addict ought to be sharing their solution in NA meetings. Especially if they feel they are off track. There are probably tons of addicts at those meetings who need the solution that a recovered addict has, but they don't get it because other addicts feel AA is better and NA is not worth their time.
Of course anyone is welcome in an open meeting of AA, but AA's primary purpose is to help alcoholics to achieve sobriety. The Pamphlet 'Problems Other than Alcohol', written by Bill W. has a lot of good things to say on this very topic.

Alraihani

Yeah Bill W said members who are alcoholics and addicts can become some of put best members. That's me. But i doubt i can sponser people in n/a and tell them, were gonna work out the big book. Anyways i don't even know why I'm involved in this debate. The hand of God has been always involved in AA, thus old ideas that move us further away from God will eventually go away. I got into singleness of purpise debate with some grumpy old timer, i then found put he actively smokes weed, and then it hit me, no wonder he wants to only talk about alcohol.