Is it wise to have opiate dependency in your medical records?
Heathen
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: La La Land, USA
Posts: 2,567
Originally Posted by ian_g 
You may think it far-fetched but like I said there are countless number who will attest to this "no choice in the matter". Unless you've been in such a position, you really can't fully come to grips with it.
Mr.MeToo?
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: East Coast to the Deep South
Posts: 828
People seem to get way to caught up in the debate on whether addiction is a disease or simply a choice. Like my good friend dan always said, who cares about semantics? If its a disease, cure thyself, if its a choice then make the right one.
Great point here bro, also if im not mistaken I remember vitner talking a few months ago about how he was still ingesting oxycodone for some type of depression ....... so yah......
Originally Posted by ian_g
Vin you seem very intelligent but you also claim to not be an addict. If I need legal advice I go to an attorney not my local butcher. I can't possibly share an opinion on an experience I never had. Unless one has walked in those shoes...opinions on whatever it is from an outsider hold no weight.
it's a movie, you're the star
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 355
Liberty,
I had an almost identical experience to you. In my opinion, if you have a close friend/family member/sponsor/sober support who can help you out and maybe even hold onto any abuseable medication for you then maybe choose not to reveal your past narcotic abuse and just stay honest with yourself and those you trust.
I know, being a former pillhead, if I have any abuseable pills nearby or even know of any being some where near me, it's pretty impossible for me to resist the urge to crush em and rail em. In that way Vin, I do feel powerless over that. A regular ole' Joe would be able to say no to pills. However, I honestly feel that I have the choice to avoid situations in which my sobriety would be highly at risk.
Ian, I totally appreciate your passion and my sympathies go out to all your friends who have struggled. Drug abuse and dependence is tragic, however, and I may be attacked for this statement, but I think addicts/alcoholics are people who are just extremely insecure and afraid of dealing with life. Recovering addicts/alcoholics, however, are some of the strongest people in the world.
Hugs & support,
Rachel
I had an almost identical experience to you. In my opinion, if you have a close friend/family member/sponsor/sober support who can help you out and maybe even hold onto any abuseable medication for you then maybe choose not to reveal your past narcotic abuse and just stay honest with yourself and those you trust.
I know, being a former pillhead, if I have any abuseable pills nearby or even know of any being some where near me, it's pretty impossible for me to resist the urge to crush em and rail em. In that way Vin, I do feel powerless over that. A regular ole' Joe would be able to say no to pills. However, I honestly feel that I have the choice to avoid situations in which my sobriety would be highly at risk.
Ian, I totally appreciate your passion and my sympathies go out to all your friends who have struggled. Drug abuse and dependence is tragic, however, and I may be attacked for this statement, but I think addicts/alcoholics are people who are just extremely insecure and afraid of dealing with life. Recovering addicts/alcoholics, however, are some of the strongest people in the world.
Hugs & support,
Rachel
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: salisbury, nc
Posts: 66
Originally Posted by ian_g
You may think it far-fetched but like I said there are countless number who will attest to this "no choice in the matter". Unless you've been in such a position, you really can't fully come to grips with it.
maybe i just ended up in rehab b/c i got hooked on some pills and did stupid **** to maintain the habit.
we are all alike but not all the same. many things and situations and people brought us here.
thanks ian.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Philly and NYC
Posts: 220
Originally Posted by ex D-Boy
People seem to get way to caught up in the debate on whether addiction is a disease or simply a choice. Like my good friend dan always said, who cares about semantics? If its a disease, cure thyself, if its a choice then make the right one.
Great point here bro, also if im not mistaken I remember vitner talking a few months ago about how he was still ingesting oxycodone for some type of depression ....... so yah......
Great point here bro, also if im not mistaken I remember vitner talking a few months ago about how he was still ingesting oxycodone for some type of depression ....... so yah......
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Philly and NYC
Posts: 220
Originally Posted by 123bubblegum123
Ian, I totally appreciate your passion and my sympathies go out to all your friends who have struggled. Drug abuse and dependence is tragic, however, and I may be attacked for this statement, but I think addicts/alcoholics are people who are just extremely insecure and afraid of dealing with life. Recovering addicts/alcoholics, however, are some of the strongest people in the world.
Hugs & support,
Rachel
Hugs & support,
Rachel
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 862
Originally Posted by ian_g
Good Point Scott
There are a multitude of articles from psychiatric journals detailing the positive therapeutic effects of chronic low doses of opioids in individuals who don't respond to other treatments, couple this with the fact that I don't experience tolerance, nor a "high", with my medical history of severe melancholic depression that is refractory to every treatment (short of surgery and induced seizures, which I won't put myself through).
Every aspect of opioid therapy has been a positive force in my life. If I take my medication I am not psychotic, depressed, anxious, bordering on being thrown in the loonie bin, it has not once caused me to mutilate myself, waste money, destroy relationships, be violent, masochistic, sadistic, destructive or murderous (yes). In fact it negates all of this behaviour which is the product of a defective endorphin system, which oxycodone is the best treatment for. There are a team of doctors that look after me and they've all been amazed at the therapeutic effect this drug has on me.
I'm sure if many had there way I'd be forced to ingest poisons like Venlafaxine and become psychotic again. But I'm sure that's preferable right? Maybe I should just be loaded up with Thorazine and put in a straight jacket drooling out of a window for the rest of my life instead of living the fulfilling, happy life I am now.
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Philly and NYC
Posts: 220
Originally Posted by Vintersemestre
Yeah I am... just like other people take antidepressants. Did you know my spine is also basically broken in three places? Did you know that for whatever reason my system doesn't develop a tolerance to the nocioceptive or psychological effect of the drug? Did you know that traditional antidepressants like Paxil and Effexor have a much more toxic effect on the brain? Do you know I've been taking the same dose without altering it for nigh on six years (actually it was slightly lowered recently from 40mg to 20mg because my pain isn't as severe) and it's totally changed my life for the better?
There are a multitude of articles from psychiatric journals detailing the positive therapeutic effects of chronic low doses of opioids in individuals who don't respond to other treatments, couple this with the fact that I don't experience tolerance, nor a "high", with my medical history of severe melancholic depression that is refractory to every treatment (short of surgery and induced seizures, which I won't put myself through).
Every aspect of opioid therapy has been a positive force in my life. If I take my medication I am not psychotic, depressed, anxious, bordering on being thrown in the loonie bin, it has not once caused me to mutilate myself, waste money, destroy relationships, be violent, masochistic, sadistic, destructive or murderous (yes). In fact it negates all of this behaviour which is the product of a defective endorphin system, which oxycodone is the best treatment for. There are a team of doctors that look after me and they've all been amazed at the therapeutic effect this drug has on me.
I'm sure if many had there way I'd be forced to ingest poisons like Venlafaxine and become psychotic again. But I'm sure that's preferable right? Maybe I should just be loaded up with Thorazine and put in a straight jacket drooling out of a window for the rest of my life instead of living the fulfilling, happy life I am now.
There are a multitude of articles from psychiatric journals detailing the positive therapeutic effects of chronic low doses of opioids in individuals who don't respond to other treatments, couple this with the fact that I don't experience tolerance, nor a "high", with my medical history of severe melancholic depression that is refractory to every treatment (short of surgery and induced seizures, which I won't put myself through).
Every aspect of opioid therapy has been a positive force in my life. If I take my medication I am not psychotic, depressed, anxious, bordering on being thrown in the loonie bin, it has not once caused me to mutilate myself, waste money, destroy relationships, be violent, masochistic, sadistic, destructive or murderous (yes). In fact it negates all of this behaviour which is the product of a defective endorphin system, which oxycodone is the best treatment for. There are a team of doctors that look after me and they've all been amazed at the therapeutic effect this drug has on me.
I'm sure if many had there way I'd be forced to ingest poisons like Venlafaxine and become psychotic again. But I'm sure that's preferable right? Maybe I should just be loaded up with Thorazine and put in a straight jacket drooling out of a window for the rest of my life instead of living the fulfilling, happy life I am now.
I'm not sure what you want us to say. I'm just honestly dumbfounded by all of this. What do you feel you are trying to accomplish by posting you great successes with opioid use? I'm really happy it works for you but think about the others who are addicts and are reading this nonsense.
Like I said, I'm not a surgeon so I don't go and tell other surgeons how to perform brain surgery. So if I'm a person who isn't an addict what would make me possibly think I'd be in any position to give advice to addicts?
I mean no malice in my comment, I just can't figure out how to spell it out in any other form. Hopefully something I said may open you up to a different perspective. Have a great night!
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 862
Well it's sort of by happenstance that I post here, since before I was self-medicating my condition and people around me as well as ill-informed social workers and doctors informed me that I was indeed an addict and I had some severe family pressure to stop "using", even though it's something I took to maintain my sanity, not get high and vegetate.
So I started posting here when I was suffering really badly and I identified with alot of the mental problems I was reading, though none of the drug-seeking behaviour. After seeking better medical care and advice and being stabilized on medication, my odd/rare condition put me in contact with people from a university who study chemicals and pharmacology from a scientific and sociological point of view. They wanted to do some studies with me and I agreed and just through conversation they found that I had a profound, almost "idiot-savant" like understanding of body/brain chemistry, drugs (street and pharmaceutical) and was very good at thinking forwardly and creatively vis-a-vis applied logic as it pertains to the effects of said drugs and as we all know, science evolves from theory and creativity, testing and trial and error. This led to working not only in a laboratory environment, but in a place we call "The Wailing Praesidium", where we endure self-sacrificial injections of chemicals (often newly invented experimental ones) in a medical setting to study their effects. This place also has an outpatient treatment clinic for opiate and benzodiazepine addicts, where two physicians and one psychiatrist and six profesionally trained social workers are employed. I often talk to the opiate addict (if they want to and the social worker approves it, since I'm not professionally trained) because it's what I have personal experience with (as far as the physical dependence goes) and people like talking to other people with first-hand experience when in times of crisis. I believe that advice I have given has saved lives.
Anyway, I do have some valid knowledge to contribute in regards to how to best cease different types of drugs (which a lot of people here want to do) and I have always liked helping people (which is held in odd contrast to my unmedicated behaviour).
I came to befriend some of the people here and I like alot of them so I want to help, and even though I haven't experienced addiction for myself, I work with people who are addicted every day. Your argument is sort of isolationist and nonsensical from my point of view, but I understand where you're coming from; you view it as a brotherhood, but the way I view it is with the following analogy: just because I've never had cancer doesn't mean I don't know I'd feel horrified and scared if I did have it.
So I started posting here when I was suffering really badly and I identified with alot of the mental problems I was reading, though none of the drug-seeking behaviour. After seeking better medical care and advice and being stabilized on medication, my odd/rare condition put me in contact with people from a university who study chemicals and pharmacology from a scientific and sociological point of view. They wanted to do some studies with me and I agreed and just through conversation they found that I had a profound, almost "idiot-savant" like understanding of body/brain chemistry, drugs (street and pharmaceutical) and was very good at thinking forwardly and creatively vis-a-vis applied logic as it pertains to the effects of said drugs and as we all know, science evolves from theory and creativity, testing and trial and error. This led to working not only in a laboratory environment, but in a place we call "The Wailing Praesidium", where we endure self-sacrificial injections of chemicals (often newly invented experimental ones) in a medical setting to study their effects. This place also has an outpatient treatment clinic for opiate and benzodiazepine addicts, where two physicians and one psychiatrist and six profesionally trained social workers are employed. I often talk to the opiate addict (if they want to and the social worker approves it, since I'm not professionally trained) because it's what I have personal experience with (as far as the physical dependence goes) and people like talking to other people with first-hand experience when in times of crisis. I believe that advice I have given has saved lives.
Anyway, I do have some valid knowledge to contribute in regards to how to best cease different types of drugs (which a lot of people here want to do) and I have always liked helping people (which is held in odd contrast to my unmedicated behaviour).
I came to befriend some of the people here and I like alot of them so I want to help, and even though I haven't experienced addiction for myself, I work with people who are addicted every day. Your argument is sort of isolationist and nonsensical from my point of view, but I understand where you're coming from; you view it as a brotherhood, but the way I view it is with the following analogy: just because I've never had cancer doesn't mean I don't know I'd feel horrified and scared if I did have it.
Do or do not. There is no try.
Join Date: Apr 2008
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hey vint, instead of coming here and threadcrappin this poor guys post to hell with big words you read on the internet and your personal OPINIONS, why not try to actually be of use to him, help him. And if you dont have anything to help with, then maybe you should take your holier than thou attitude and go read some more wikipedia articles to learn some more big words. This disease goes far deeper than the actual addiction to a substance, as displayed several times in this thread.
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Philly and NYC
Posts: 220
Originally Posted by Vintersemestre
Well it's sort of by happenstance that I post here, since before I was self-medicating my condition and people around me as well as ill-informed social workers and doctors informed me that I was indeed an addict and I had some severe family pressure to stop "using", even though it's something I took to maintain my sanity, not get high and vegetate.
So I started posting here when I was suffering really badly and I identified with alot of the mental problems I was reading, though none of the drug-seeking behaviour. After seeking better medical care and advice and being stabilized on medication, my odd/rare condition put me in contact with people from a university who study chemicals and pharmacology from a scientific and sociological point of view. They wanted to do some studies with me and I agreed and just through conversation they found that I had a profound, almost "idiot-savant" like understanding of body/brain chemistry, drugs (street and pharmaceutical) and was very good at thinking forwardly and creatively vis-a-vis applied logic as it pertains to the effects of said drugs and as we all know, science evolves from theory and creativity, testing and trial and error. This led to working not only in a laboratory environment, but in a place we call "The Wailing Praesidium", where we endure self-sacrificial injections of chemicals (often newly invented experimental ones) in a medical setting to study their effects. This place also has an outpatient treatment clinic for opiate and benzodiazepine addicts, where two physicians and one psychiatrist and six profesionally trained social workers are employed. I often talk to the opiate addict (if they want to and the social worker approves it, since I'm not professionally trained) because it's what I have personal experience with (as far as the physical dependence goes) and people like talking to other people with first-hand experience when in times of crisis. I believe that advice I have given has saved lives.
Anyway, I do have some valid knowledge to contribute in regards to how to best cease different types of drugs (which a lot of people here want to do) and I have always liked helping people (which is held in odd contrast to my unmedicated behaviour).
I came to befriend some of the people here and I like alot of them so I want to help, and even though I haven't experienced addiction for myself, I work with people who are addicted every day. Your argument is sort of isolationist and nonsensical from my point of view, but I understand where you're coming from; you view it as a brotherhood, but the way I view it is with the following analogy: just because I've never had cancer doesn't mean I don't know I'd feel horrified and scared if I did have it.
So I started posting here when I was suffering really badly and I identified with alot of the mental problems I was reading, though none of the drug-seeking behaviour. After seeking better medical care and advice and being stabilized on medication, my odd/rare condition put me in contact with people from a university who study chemicals and pharmacology from a scientific and sociological point of view. They wanted to do some studies with me and I agreed and just through conversation they found that I had a profound, almost "idiot-savant" like understanding of body/brain chemistry, drugs (street and pharmaceutical) and was very good at thinking forwardly and creatively vis-a-vis applied logic as it pertains to the effects of said drugs and as we all know, science evolves from theory and creativity, testing and trial and error. This led to working not only in a laboratory environment, but in a place we call "The Wailing Praesidium", where we endure self-sacrificial injections of chemicals (often newly invented experimental ones) in a medical setting to study their effects. This place also has an outpatient treatment clinic for opiate and benzodiazepine addicts, where two physicians and one psychiatrist and six profesionally trained social workers are employed. I often talk to the opiate addict (if they want to and the social worker approves it, since I'm not professionally trained) because it's what I have personal experience with (as far as the physical dependence goes) and people like talking to other people with first-hand experience when in times of crisis. I believe that advice I have given has saved lives.
Anyway, I do have some valid knowledge to contribute in regards to how to best cease different types of drugs (which a lot of people here want to do) and I have always liked helping people (which is held in odd contrast to my unmedicated behaviour).
I came to befriend some of the people here and I like alot of them so I want to help, and even though I haven't experienced addiction for myself, I work with people who are addicted every day. Your argument is sort of isolationist and nonsensical from my point of view, but I understand where you're coming from; you view it as a brotherhood, but the way I view it is with the following analogy: just because I've never had cancer doesn't mean I don't know I'd feel horrified and scared if I did have it.
From "To Kill A Mockingbird" the great quote, "You never really know a man until you step in his shoes and walk around in them". Thanks again!
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 862
Originally Posted by Tryin2Recover
hey vint, instead of coming here and threadcrappin this poor guys post to hell with big words you read on the internet and your personal OPINIONS, why not try to actually be of use to him, help him. And if you dont have anything to help with, then maybe you should take your holier than thou attitude and go read some more wikipedia articles to learn some more big words. This disease goes far deeper than the actual addiction to a substance, as displayed several times in this thread.
The truth shall set you free
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5,267
Originally Posted by Vintersemestre
I've been talking to him via PM and giving him advice that way on his request. The rest of your post is nonsense.
Vin, do you know you just broke someone’s Anonymity?
Come on now, get with the program.
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: CA Native
Posts: 2,509
When I walk into any new doctor, I inform them that I'm a recovering addict, and to put in my file that opioids should be administered only in an emergency, and any take-home prescriptions for opioids should only be given to one of my loved ones to manage, and not handed to me directly. This occurrence (me telling the doctor this) has happened three times since I got clean, twice w/dentists, and once at urgent care.
I don't give a flyin' f*** what the ramifications are of divulging this information to a doctor, whether it 'goes down on my permanent record' or whatever happens. Because WHATEVER it might be that could happen from doing this ... it ain't going to be worse than getting re-addicted to opioids because I finagled some doc into giving me some.
Disease, not-disease, WHATEVER man. Who gives a S**T what it's called or categorized as. The people who succeed and recover are the ones who put RECOVERY FIRST.
The actions I describe are EXACTLY what you do ... when you are putting recovery first.
End of Story, as far as I'm concerned.
I don't give a flyin' f*** what the ramifications are of divulging this information to a doctor, whether it 'goes down on my permanent record' or whatever happens. Because WHATEVER it might be that could happen from doing this ... it ain't going to be worse than getting re-addicted to opioids because I finagled some doc into giving me some.
Disease, not-disease, WHATEVER man. Who gives a S**T what it's called or categorized as. The people who succeed and recover are the ones who put RECOVERY FIRST.
The actions I describe are EXACTLY what you do ... when you are putting recovery first.
End of Story, as far as I'm concerned.
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 1,401
Originally Posted by bvaljalo
I don't give a flyin' f*** what the ramifications are of divulging this information to a doctor, whether it 'goes down on my permanent record' or whatever happens. Because WHATEVER it might be that could happen from doing this ... it ain't going to be worse than getting re-addicted to opioids because I finagled some doc into giving me some.
As for Vinter's earlier suggestion, the decision to inform my doctors may very well make the street my only source if I have a subsequent relapse. But, I want recovery, any way that I can get it (and not telling my doctors hasn't been working). So, even though I know that I have put myself in the position of having to buy off the street, I'm glad that I chose to notify my doctors. As I've stated, I want to stay quit and, although I hope that it's not the case, if the street proves to be the bottom that I need to quit, then so be it.
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