To Callie, and all other Spouses of Addicts looking for answers
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: CA Native
Posts: 2,509
To Callie, and all other Spouses of Addicts looking for answers
To the best of my knowledge this ear problem you speak of is caused by the tylenol in vicodin, not the hydrocodone. Opiates themselves are pretty much benign in terms of the effects on the body, they are pretty much 'non-toxic' to the systems and organs. It's the tylenol (in most of these drugs) that really f***s you up after awhile.
I mean to say, the drugs part is worse, of course, but it's for a different reason. By that I mean of course, changes to your brain chemistry resulting in the permanent condition known as addiction and all the craziness that ensues from it.
As others say, no, your never going to 'understand' without being an addict yourself. Our actions don't make sense because drugs become more powerful than ourselves. We lose the power to really 'choose' at a certain point, and it almost always takes really serious consequences along with coming to the point where the drugs just 'don't work' any more, either to get us high, or to numb the pain, before we start looking for a better way to live. Some never do, and the ends for them are always the same: jails, institutions, and death.
Something you really have to be aware of when dealing with opiates in particular is the phenomenon of craving and withdrawal. Many times people hooked on opiates would like to get off them and no longer really get 'high' off them (the real good high fades pretty quick actually once you're hooked and never really returns), but find themselves unable because of what we refer to around here as w/ds, aka withdrawals, 'kicking', 'hanging', 'dopesick', etc.
The misery of withdrawals is difficult to fathom for people who've not experienced it, but the best analogy would be to imagine having the worst flu of your life, combined with the most crushing, panic-filled depression you can possibly imagine. Your entire body will be in pain, especially your stomach and back (for me anyway), you run a low-grade fever, feel nauseous, and you can't eat at all. You cannot possibly sleep and your legs shake uncontrollably, but despite these symptoms, you have ZERO 'useful' energy. You try to lay down, you can't relax, you get up, pace the floor, feel exhausted, lay down, can't relax, etc. You feel extreme panic, to the point where you think you are most certainly going to die if you don't get some dope. And that is literally ALL you want in the world. Nothing else matters to you except what we lovingly refer to as "GETTING WELL". The thought will NOT leave your mind for more than seconds at a time because you KNOW: a couple of pills or a shot and you are right as rain in a matter of minutes from when they hit your bloodstream. The temptation, as you might imagine, is pretty damn difficult to overcome.
The reason the condition of opiate addiction is permanent (the reason why it's difficult to 'spot' a person on opiates is inter-related) is due to the nature of opiates effect on the brain/body. They are, in effect, synthetic endorphins i.e. your bodies own 'feel good' chemicals. Dopamine is one of these, and it is naturally released during activities like sex, or after a good hard workout of any kind
in small quantities. Your brain and body have 'receptors' that respond to it's presence in the blood, and the stimulation of these receptors creates what we call 'pleasure' or even 'euphoria'.
Over time with repeated abuse of opiates, your body begins to 'grow' extra receptors to respond to the overabundance of endorphins, to 'suck 'em up', as it were. It also CEASES to produce it's own endorphins because they are not sensed as 'needed'. It also overproduces adrenaline, in order to keep you awake despite the presence of these drugs. which are clinically known as CNS depressants. What this amounts to is that when you STOP taking them, you are completely out-of-whack in terms of brain chemistry. You have this massive over-supply of receptors that begin to 'scream out' (for lack of a better word) for the endorphins they have grown up to love. But your brain ain't making endorphins for them anymore, so they are VERY unhappy. And you have this abundance of adrenaline, which makes you very panicky and makes you feel like you are in great peril (this is the 'fight or flight' drug, of course) to the point where you feel your LIFE is literally in jeopardy. And there is only one 'safe haven' your brain can imagine at this time.
Now, the good news is: if you stop taking opiates, all this will return to normal over time, usually 1 week to get over the worst of it, and about 1 month to feel completely normal, but these lengths depend on a variety of factors. They are go back to normal, save ONE THING: These extra receptors will go 'dormant' but they will NOT 'die' or 'go away'. They will always be there, lying in wait for the next time you flood your body with this over-abundance of endorphins, and once they are re-stimulated, you will find yourself right back in the same boat as you were before with the cravings as soon as you stop them.
This is why we refer to the condition as permanent, and WHY it is SO VERY DIFFICULT to go back to 'occasional use'. It quite simply NEVER works out that way, despite our best intentions, our brains, our 'wills', are just as NOT as powerful as these drugs, not once we've become addicts.
If your husband has reached the point in the past where he was on methadone and went through rehab to get clean, then he is most certainly an addict. It's *possible* that someone could get clean and toy around with low, occasional doses of recreational painkillers, but that would only last for a VERY short time AT BEST. Each time the person did them the likelihood of returning to full-blown daily addiction would be increasing SHARPLY. In most cases, it only takes ONCE, but some people may be able to pull it off maybe 3-5 times before they slipped back into the daily habit.
And once it's back to a daily habit for ANY length of time, you pretty much MUST HAVE OPIATES in your system at ALL TIMES to not be 'sick'. You DO NOT however have to be HIGH on them at all times, not at all. Most full-blown addicts are NOT high on opiates all that often, if at all, for a number of reasons. One of these is financial: copping dope is expensive, and when faced with a limited supply, over time many of us have been forced to think in terms of making our dope LAST, at least somewhat. Second, as I've said, it actually becomes difficult to even GET high on them anymore, they pretty much stop working for that effect after awhile, unless you 'upgrade', like from vicodin to oxys, oxys to dilaudid, dilaudid to heroin. Moves like this may buy you some more 'high times' ... for a little while ...
The idea that you could get high on opiates every few days for months on end after becoming an addict is literally unfathomable to me, I've never in my life heard of such a story. Maybe if you had some serious long-term recovery under your belt and were taking them for legitimate serious (but occasional) pain issues, and not taking enough to get AT ALL high on you might not 'go back', but even then it'll probably be tough when you have to stop.
As far as your questions about you and others not being able to 'tell' your husband is on these drugs, that is very common with opiates, esp. milder ones like pain pills (vs. heroin, which has a bit more obvious an effect). As I said earlier, the opiate high is in many ways what you might call a 'natural state'. It's natural, but it's just not meant to be 'all the time', you see? It would best be described is a pure 'body high', a lightness in your chest, a generalized euphoria and sense of well-being. You feel very even-keeled, happy, and nothing really bothers you (usually, but sudden bouts of anger are not uncommon especially once you're really strung out), and you feel like you are thinking very clearly. As many have said, they were very productive on opiates, and nobody ever really knew they were on them. This was true of me as well.
The signs of opiate addiction are actually much more noticeable in the ways they effect people when they DON'T have their dope, as opposed to what happens when they are ON dope. Here are some good ways of spotting a problem (note, most of these apply to people who are acquiring them illegally ... many will be absent if the addict has himself a very generous doctor and a good insurance plan, so ... those make it much easier to hide addiction!)
1) Has a tendency to suddenly disappear to 'go grab some milk' or whatever, especially after short phone conversations, but they don't return for MUCH longer than it should've taken them.
2) Has 'furtive' but short phone conversations regularly and doesn't say who it was.
3) Regularly runs outside (but out of view of the house) for brief periods without explanation.
4) Spends way more money than they should and cannot account for it. A lot of this is cash taken from ATM's, often in large chunks.
5) Doesn't like to make any plans for things that occur days out into the future, and flakes on stuff a lot if they do make plans.
6) Seems to be 'sick' an inordinate amount of the time, and while their sickness doesn't keep 'em in bed, it DOES keep 'em near the telephone!
7) Said sickness(es) seem to last a very short time, and recovery miraculously occurs after they 'run out to Rite-Aid' (despite your offer to go for them), which was a 5 minute trip that took 1 hour to accomplish.
8) Seems to want to 'get you out of the house' on a regular basis, while they stay home.
9) Exhibits fairly wild mood swings, totally happy one day, depressed and panicky the next.
10) The only actual 'physical effects' I know of to be common are these: Erectile/ejaculatory problems, constipation, constricted pupils, and intense itching, esp. the nose/face and genital area.
Bottom line, if you are expecting similar signs to those you see when people are on other drugs like pot or booze or coke, you are simply NOT going to see the 'stereotypical' signs of acute intoxication like stumbling, slurring, bloodshot eyes, incoherence in many cases. You start mixing the dope with a little booze, though, THAT is a different matter. You may well be seeing what you've seen lately because he's been doing a little drinking on top of his dope use, which can produce a pretty profoundly 'drunken' looking person with *very* little alcohol being involved. Or ... maybe recently he's stepped up to 'better dope', like oxys, or dilaudid, or even heroin, which can be snorted or smoked as well as shot.
While these stronger drugs are possible causes of the behavior you've been seeing, I have to say ... it's unusual for an experienced opiate addict to just suddenly start seeming visibly all ****ed up like you describe JUST from opiates. You REALLY tend to get pretty immune to the stuff is the truth. I suspect it's something else involved. I'd suspect either booze, some kinda benzo like klonipin/xanax/valium, or perhaps just one of his medical conditions to be the cause.
Anyhow, to the problem at hand. My best advice is this: Take him into the bathroom, with all the lights on, and both of you look into the mirror. Ask him if he can spot the main difference between the two of your faces. You both SHOULD be able to see that when you compare both of your set of eyes, in the SAME light, his pupils should be considerably SMALLER than yours. Pupil constriction is the ONE 'solid' sign of someone on opiates, just for future reference, but it's difficult to tell UNLESS you have something to compare it to, like your own eyes, in a mirror.
I would tell him at that point that it's time for him to come clean. Tell him you've learned ALL about opiate addiction on line. Tell him you still love the 'real him', and are hoping that you can get through this problem TOGETHER, that you will support him if he wants to try to get better. Tell him that THIS ONE TIME, if he will be COMPLETELY HONEST about what has been going on, what he's taking, where he gets it, how much he's spent, etc, you are going to grant him a complete 'amnesty' for ALL of the lies he's told. Say it like you mean it, and more importantly DO MEAN IT!
If he says he hasn't been lying, tell him that you KNOW, you have learned that, for a FACT, ALL ADDICTS LIE, it's what they do, and it's their addiction that makes them do it. And you understand it's not his fault, and you really just want to help, but you are NOT going to unless he comes clean, NOW, about what's going on. Otherwise, you're going to have to conclude he has no desire to get better, and he's going to have to pack up his stuff and get out.
There are ways to recover from this. Most of us here are in that process. We know that if WE can do it, ANYONE can. If you can convince him to come clean, he will be well on his way I think. If you can't, then you're better off letting him go, at the very least for the time being.
I would do some research on the drug Buprenorphine, aka Subutex/Suboxone. There's TONS of sites on the web that talk about it, it's kinda a 'kinder gentler' methadone that doesn't get you high AT ALL, blocks other opiates from working, and isn't too terribly hard to wean off of and quit. You get it from a regular doctor, not a clinic, you get 'take home' meds for up to a months worth at a time, and most insurance will cover it. It's what I, and many of us used to get ourselves off of this terrible roller-coaster, and I highly recommend looking into it.
There is hope for your situation, and all the rest of the people who lurk here for answers about there loved one's addictions, but never post.
Good luck, and keep posting
I mean to say, the drugs part is worse, of course, but it's for a different reason. By that I mean of course, changes to your brain chemistry resulting in the permanent condition known as addiction and all the craziness that ensues from it.
As others say, no, your never going to 'understand' without being an addict yourself. Our actions don't make sense because drugs become more powerful than ourselves. We lose the power to really 'choose' at a certain point, and it almost always takes really serious consequences along with coming to the point where the drugs just 'don't work' any more, either to get us high, or to numb the pain, before we start looking for a better way to live. Some never do, and the ends for them are always the same: jails, institutions, and death.
Something you really have to be aware of when dealing with opiates in particular is the phenomenon of craving and withdrawal. Many times people hooked on opiates would like to get off them and no longer really get 'high' off them (the real good high fades pretty quick actually once you're hooked and never really returns), but find themselves unable because of what we refer to around here as w/ds, aka withdrawals, 'kicking', 'hanging', 'dopesick', etc.
The misery of withdrawals is difficult to fathom for people who've not experienced it, but the best analogy would be to imagine having the worst flu of your life, combined with the most crushing, panic-filled depression you can possibly imagine. Your entire body will be in pain, especially your stomach and back (for me anyway), you run a low-grade fever, feel nauseous, and you can't eat at all. You cannot possibly sleep and your legs shake uncontrollably, but despite these symptoms, you have ZERO 'useful' energy. You try to lay down, you can't relax, you get up, pace the floor, feel exhausted, lay down, can't relax, etc. You feel extreme panic, to the point where you think you are most certainly going to die if you don't get some dope. And that is literally ALL you want in the world. Nothing else matters to you except what we lovingly refer to as "GETTING WELL". The thought will NOT leave your mind for more than seconds at a time because you KNOW: a couple of pills or a shot and you are right as rain in a matter of minutes from when they hit your bloodstream. The temptation, as you might imagine, is pretty damn difficult to overcome.
The reason the condition of opiate addiction is permanent (the reason why it's difficult to 'spot' a person on opiates is inter-related) is due to the nature of opiates effect on the brain/body. They are, in effect, synthetic endorphins i.e. your bodies own 'feel good' chemicals. Dopamine is one of these, and it is naturally released during activities like sex, or after a good hard workout of any kind
in small quantities. Your brain and body have 'receptors' that respond to it's presence in the blood, and the stimulation of these receptors creates what we call 'pleasure' or even 'euphoria'. Over time with repeated abuse of opiates, your body begins to 'grow' extra receptors to respond to the overabundance of endorphins, to 'suck 'em up', as it were. It also CEASES to produce it's own endorphins because they are not sensed as 'needed'. It also overproduces adrenaline, in order to keep you awake despite the presence of these drugs. which are clinically known as CNS depressants. What this amounts to is that when you STOP taking them, you are completely out-of-whack in terms of brain chemistry. You have this massive over-supply of receptors that begin to 'scream out' (for lack of a better word) for the endorphins they have grown up to love. But your brain ain't making endorphins for them anymore, so they are VERY unhappy. And you have this abundance of adrenaline, which makes you very panicky and makes you feel like you are in great peril (this is the 'fight or flight' drug, of course) to the point where you feel your LIFE is literally in jeopardy. And there is only one 'safe haven' your brain can imagine at this time.
Now, the good news is: if you stop taking opiates, all this will return to normal over time, usually 1 week to get over the worst of it, and about 1 month to feel completely normal, but these lengths depend on a variety of factors. They are go back to normal, save ONE THING: These extra receptors will go 'dormant' but they will NOT 'die' or 'go away'. They will always be there, lying in wait for the next time you flood your body with this over-abundance of endorphins, and once they are re-stimulated, you will find yourself right back in the same boat as you were before with the cravings as soon as you stop them.
This is why we refer to the condition as permanent, and WHY it is SO VERY DIFFICULT to go back to 'occasional use'. It quite simply NEVER works out that way, despite our best intentions, our brains, our 'wills', are just as NOT as powerful as these drugs, not once we've become addicts.
If your husband has reached the point in the past where he was on methadone and went through rehab to get clean, then he is most certainly an addict. It's *possible* that someone could get clean and toy around with low, occasional doses of recreational painkillers, but that would only last for a VERY short time AT BEST. Each time the person did them the likelihood of returning to full-blown daily addiction would be increasing SHARPLY. In most cases, it only takes ONCE, but some people may be able to pull it off maybe 3-5 times before they slipped back into the daily habit.
And once it's back to a daily habit for ANY length of time, you pretty much MUST HAVE OPIATES in your system at ALL TIMES to not be 'sick'. You DO NOT however have to be HIGH on them at all times, not at all. Most full-blown addicts are NOT high on opiates all that often, if at all, for a number of reasons. One of these is financial: copping dope is expensive, and when faced with a limited supply, over time many of us have been forced to think in terms of making our dope LAST, at least somewhat. Second, as I've said, it actually becomes difficult to even GET high on them anymore, they pretty much stop working for that effect after awhile, unless you 'upgrade', like from vicodin to oxys, oxys to dilaudid, dilaudid to heroin. Moves like this may buy you some more 'high times' ... for a little while ...
The idea that you could get high on opiates every few days for months on end after becoming an addict is literally unfathomable to me, I've never in my life heard of such a story. Maybe if you had some serious long-term recovery under your belt and were taking them for legitimate serious (but occasional) pain issues, and not taking enough to get AT ALL high on you might not 'go back', but even then it'll probably be tough when you have to stop.
As far as your questions about you and others not being able to 'tell' your husband is on these drugs, that is very common with opiates, esp. milder ones like pain pills (vs. heroin, which has a bit more obvious an effect). As I said earlier, the opiate high is in many ways what you might call a 'natural state'. It's natural, but it's just not meant to be 'all the time', you see? It would best be described is a pure 'body high', a lightness in your chest, a generalized euphoria and sense of well-being. You feel very even-keeled, happy, and nothing really bothers you (usually, but sudden bouts of anger are not uncommon especially once you're really strung out), and you feel like you are thinking very clearly. As many have said, they were very productive on opiates, and nobody ever really knew they were on them. This was true of me as well.
The signs of opiate addiction are actually much more noticeable in the ways they effect people when they DON'T have their dope, as opposed to what happens when they are ON dope. Here are some good ways of spotting a problem (note, most of these apply to people who are acquiring them illegally ... many will be absent if the addict has himself a very generous doctor and a good insurance plan, so ... those make it much easier to hide addiction!)
1) Has a tendency to suddenly disappear to 'go grab some milk' or whatever, especially after short phone conversations, but they don't return for MUCH longer than it should've taken them.
2) Has 'furtive' but short phone conversations regularly and doesn't say who it was.
3) Regularly runs outside (but out of view of the house) for brief periods without explanation.
4) Spends way more money than they should and cannot account for it. A lot of this is cash taken from ATM's, often in large chunks.
5) Doesn't like to make any plans for things that occur days out into the future, and flakes on stuff a lot if they do make plans.
6) Seems to be 'sick' an inordinate amount of the time, and while their sickness doesn't keep 'em in bed, it DOES keep 'em near the telephone!
7) Said sickness(es) seem to last a very short time, and recovery miraculously occurs after they 'run out to Rite-Aid' (despite your offer to go for them), which was a 5 minute trip that took 1 hour to accomplish.
8) Seems to want to 'get you out of the house' on a regular basis, while they stay home.
9) Exhibits fairly wild mood swings, totally happy one day, depressed and panicky the next.
10) The only actual 'physical effects' I know of to be common are these: Erectile/ejaculatory problems, constipation, constricted pupils, and intense itching, esp. the nose/face and genital area.
Bottom line, if you are expecting similar signs to those you see when people are on other drugs like pot or booze or coke, you are simply NOT going to see the 'stereotypical' signs of acute intoxication like stumbling, slurring, bloodshot eyes, incoherence in many cases. You start mixing the dope with a little booze, though, THAT is a different matter. You may well be seeing what you've seen lately because he's been doing a little drinking on top of his dope use, which can produce a pretty profoundly 'drunken' looking person with *very* little alcohol being involved. Or ... maybe recently he's stepped up to 'better dope', like oxys, or dilaudid, or even heroin, which can be snorted or smoked as well as shot.
While these stronger drugs are possible causes of the behavior you've been seeing, I have to say ... it's unusual for an experienced opiate addict to just suddenly start seeming visibly all ****ed up like you describe JUST from opiates. You REALLY tend to get pretty immune to the stuff is the truth. I suspect it's something else involved. I'd suspect either booze, some kinda benzo like klonipin/xanax/valium, or perhaps just one of his medical conditions to be the cause.
Anyhow, to the problem at hand. My best advice is this: Take him into the bathroom, with all the lights on, and both of you look into the mirror. Ask him if he can spot the main difference between the two of your faces. You both SHOULD be able to see that when you compare both of your set of eyes, in the SAME light, his pupils should be considerably SMALLER than yours. Pupil constriction is the ONE 'solid' sign of someone on opiates, just for future reference, but it's difficult to tell UNLESS you have something to compare it to, like your own eyes, in a mirror.
I would tell him at that point that it's time for him to come clean. Tell him you've learned ALL about opiate addiction on line. Tell him you still love the 'real him', and are hoping that you can get through this problem TOGETHER, that you will support him if he wants to try to get better. Tell him that THIS ONE TIME, if he will be COMPLETELY HONEST about what has been going on, what he's taking, where he gets it, how much he's spent, etc, you are going to grant him a complete 'amnesty' for ALL of the lies he's told. Say it like you mean it, and more importantly DO MEAN IT!
If he says he hasn't been lying, tell him that you KNOW, you have learned that, for a FACT, ALL ADDICTS LIE, it's what they do, and it's their addiction that makes them do it. And you understand it's not his fault, and you really just want to help, but you are NOT going to unless he comes clean, NOW, about what's going on. Otherwise, you're going to have to conclude he has no desire to get better, and he's going to have to pack up his stuff and get out.
There are ways to recover from this. Most of us here are in that process. We know that if WE can do it, ANYONE can. If you can convince him to come clean, he will be well on his way I think. If you can't, then you're better off letting him go, at the very least for the time being.
I would do some research on the drug Buprenorphine, aka Subutex/Suboxone. There's TONS of sites on the web that talk about it, it's kinda a 'kinder gentler' methadone that doesn't get you high AT ALL, blocks other opiates from working, and isn't too terribly hard to wean off of and quit. You get it from a regular doctor, not a clinic, you get 'take home' meds for up to a months worth at a time, and most insurance will cover it. It's what I, and many of us used to get ourselves off of this terrible roller-coaster, and I highly recommend looking into it.
There is hope for your situation, and all the rest of the people who lurk here for answers about there loved one's addictions, but never post.
Good luck, and keep posting
Last edited by bval; 05-22-2008 at 10:37 AM. Reason: Added "how to tell" advice ...
Reach Out and Touch Faith
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: On a Sailboat
Posts: 3,871
And don't forget our wonderful support group for you right here at SR..
Family and Friends of Substance Abusers
Family and Friends of Substance Abusers
Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Sunny Fla
Posts: 112
Sheesh, bvaljalo, that was great. Thanks for the all the USEFUL information. You answered questions what I have been in search of answers to for the past year.
Thank you
This would make a great sticky!
Thank you
This would make a great sticky!
Last edited by Denoraphy; 05-22-2008 at 10:39 AM. Reason: sticky comment
Member
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 60
Thank you for the great info.
My husband stated taking the suboxone about 6 weeks ago. He is concerned from some things he read that it is hard to get off of. What was your experience and opionion? He has been taking only about 2mg but said lately because of legal probems he is very anxious and stressed so he thought about increasing his dosage but then he says he wants to get off of it because he thinks it is just as addicting as his vicodin. He needs the suboxone for his daily high. Our insurance is going to stop paying for the suboxone clinic soon. How long does a person usually take it? How do you know when to wean off of it? I know he should be asking the clinic these questions but I want to know. Thanks!
My husband stated taking the suboxone about 6 weeks ago. He is concerned from some things he read that it is hard to get off of. What was your experience and opionion? He has been taking only about 2mg but said lately because of legal probems he is very anxious and stressed so he thought about increasing his dosage but then he says he wants to get off of it because he thinks it is just as addicting as his vicodin. He needs the suboxone for his daily high. Our insurance is going to stop paying for the suboxone clinic soon. How long does a person usually take it? How do you know when to wean off of it? I know he should be asking the clinic these questions but I want to know. Thanks!
Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: East Tawas, MI
Posts: 3,683
The info that you gave is right on. The only problem that I see is if you take someone in the bathroom and turn on all the bright lights, their pupils will be very small even if they don't do opiates. I know because I tried it with my daughter and she is an opiate addict, I am not and our pupils looked the same in the bright light. You need to look in dimmer light. Hugs, Marle
Member
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,906
Omigosh. I have no words to express my gratitude for this post. I'm sitting here crying that someone out there took the time to help me to such extent. I will read and reread this post. The hardest thing for me to grasp is the complete lies compiled with the fact that I just talked to him over the phone before "work" (which I doubt he goes, he'll most likely be playing cards) and he seemed fine. No slurring, though he's still not right. His thoughts are jumbled and he's forgetting things. I honestly NEVER knew that you could be addicted to drugs and look, appear and for the most part talk normal. When I had my twins, the doctor prescribed percocet for me. I was told to take 2 every few hours. I knew I couldn't take 2, but I took one and it made me so high. I literally had to break it in 1/3's. Just enough to take the pain away, but still be able to function.
I also did not realize that it was not possible to "recreationally use" after an addiction. He's been taking percocet (supposedly) for about 2 weeks straight. So in reality he's hooked again right?
Thank you so much for the ear information. He says he's taking percocet though - would that do the same thing to his ears? Another thing, after being clean for about 6 months (supposedly) he secretly went to his dr. and got an rx for suboxone. I ended up finding out about this 6 months after the fact. He said he quit taking it because it "didn't do anything." Probably a stupid question, but why would he ask for or why would a Dr. rx Suboxone for a supposedly clean person? Also, can you take Suboxone at the same time you're still abusing?
Thank you so much for the bottom of my heart. It means so much to me that you took the time to post this.
I also did not realize that it was not possible to "recreationally use" after an addiction. He's been taking percocet (supposedly) for about 2 weeks straight. So in reality he's hooked again right?
Thank you so much for the ear information. He says he's taking percocet though - would that do the same thing to his ears? Another thing, after being clean for about 6 months (supposedly) he secretly went to his dr. and got an rx for suboxone. I ended up finding out about this 6 months after the fact. He said he quit taking it because it "didn't do anything." Probably a stupid question, but why would he ask for or why would a Dr. rx Suboxone for a supposedly clean person? Also, can you take Suboxone at the same time you're still abusing?
Thank you so much for the bottom of my heart. It means so much to me that you took the time to post this.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 31,179
Callie - Bvaljalo knows way more than me about the opiates. But like he said, it's the tylenol in the drugs that cause so much physical damage. Any drug that ends in "cet" has tylenol in it....so percocet has it.
Brett...awesome post, as usual! I miss you not being around as much as you used to, but glad when you visit because your posts help me and others a LOT!
Hugs and prayers!
Amy
Brett...awesome post, as usual! I miss you not being around as much as you used to, but glad when you visit because your posts help me and others a LOT!
Hugs and prayers!
Amy
Attitude of Gratitude
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Dayton, Ohio
Posts: 2,305
(((bvaljalo)))
That my friend, was a wonderful, insightful, honesty and realistic description of what opiate addiction is/does/causes . . . .
I'm truly touched that you took the time to share that with those on here who are dealing with a loved one suffering from this world of hell. Ironic isn't it, opiates were designed to eleviate pain . . . not intensify it to the extreme nightmare that it can cause the addict and loved ones to live in.
Hopefully, by you sharing this, at least one loved one will be able to go to their addict with the love, determination and information to help them seek out Recovery.
God Bless & Thank God . . . Just for Today,
Judy
That my friend, was a wonderful, insightful, honesty and realistic description of what opiate addiction is/does/causes . . . .
I'm truly touched that you took the time to share that with those on here who are dealing with a loved one suffering from this world of hell. Ironic isn't it, opiates were designed to eleviate pain . . . not intensify it to the extreme nightmare that it can cause the addict and loved ones to live in.
Hopefully, by you sharing this, at least one loved one will be able to go to their addict with the love, determination and information to help them seek out Recovery.
God Bless & Thank God . . . Just for Today,
Judy
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: To the North
Posts: 1,086
Thank you! I know I've bugged you too, and I appreciate your time and detail with this answer - it really does help.
I have a lot of respect for all of you here and what you are doing to help yourselves and each other and thank you so much for reaching out and helping "us" too!
Be well! Be Happy!
I have a lot of respect for all of you here and what you are doing to help yourselves and each other and thank you so much for reaching out and helping "us" too!
Be well! Be Happy!
Member
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,906
ZombieWife - I bumped my thread on F&F of SA. It talks about Meneirs (sp??) disease.
Apparantly Percocet could cause that too because it has acetaminophin in it?? Does anyone know how long or how hard the usage would have to be to get this?
I'm still amazed at the original poster. This is a goldmine that you've given me - I keep reading and re-reading.
Apparantly Percocet could cause that too because it has acetaminophin in it?? Does anyone know how long or how hard the usage would have to be to get this?
I'm still amazed at the original poster. This is a goldmine that you've given me - I keep reading and re-reading.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Poughkeepsie, NY
Posts: 74
I have no idea how a sticky becomes a sticky, but I would vote for this post as one!!! Thank you for taking the time to explain to us non- addicts a bit more about the disease and effects. So informative and helpful!
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: CA Native
Posts: 2,509
Originally Posted by Callie 
Omigosh. I have no words to express my gratitude for this post. I'm sitting here crying that someone out there took the time to help me to such extent. I will read and reread this post. The hardest thing for me to grasp is the complete lies compiled with the fact that I just talked to him over the phone before "work" (which I doubt he goes, he'll most likely be playing cards) and he seemed fine. No slurring, though he's still not right. His thoughts are jumbled and he's forgetting things. I honestly NEVER knew that you could be addicted to drugs and look, appear and for the most part talk normal. When I had my twins, the doctor prescribed percocet for me. I was told to take 2 every few hours. I knew I couldn't take 2, but I took one and it made me so high. I literally had to break it in 1/3's. Just enough to take the pain away, but still be able to function.
I also did not realize that it was not possible to "recreationally use" after an addiction. He's been taking percocet (supposedly) for about 2 weeks straight. So in reality he's hooked again right?
Thank you so much for the ear information. He says he's taking percocet though - would that do the same thing to his ears? Another thing, after being clean for about 6 months (supposedly) he secretly went to his dr. and got an rx for suboxone. I ended up finding out about this 6 months after the fact. He said he quit taking it because it "didn't do anything." Probably a stupid question, but why would he ask for or why would a Dr. rx Suboxone for a supposedly clean person? Also, can you take Suboxone at the same time you're still abusing?
Thank you so much for the bottom of my heart. It means so much to me that you took the time to post this.
I also did not realize that it was not possible to "recreationally use" after an addiction. He's been taking percocet (supposedly) for about 2 weeks straight. So in reality he's hooked again right?
Thank you so much for the ear information. He says he's taking percocet though - would that do the same thing to his ears? Another thing, after being clean for about 6 months (supposedly) he secretly went to his dr. and got an rx for suboxone. I ended up finding out about this 6 months after the fact. He said he quit taking it because it "didn't do anything." Probably a stupid question, but why would he ask for or why would a Dr. rx Suboxone for a supposedly clean person? Also, can you take Suboxone at the same time you're still abusing?
Thank you so much for the bottom of my heart. It means so much to me that you took the time to post this.
Anyways, yeah, the lies ... They are part and parcel. The disease will protect itself at all costs. ALL of us here know this facet of the problem very well, I guarantee not one person will come along here and dispute what I said above. Addicts *become* liars whether they were before or not, and they're usually damn good at it. I'm not trying to excuse it, it's wrong, but it's what we do when we're hooked. When telling the truth means we may have to stop, and go through being dopesick, our disease intercedes on it's behalf. It's that simple, and certainly should not be taken as a sign that a given person is THEMSELF nothing but a big liar or that they don't 'love you', as it were. As I said, the disease is bigger than ourselves when we're in it's throes, it's that simple, and all of here will attest to this fact.
If he's been on percocet for two weeks, yeah, he's hooked again. But he's probably been on some kind of opiate every day for a lot longer than that would be my guess... I've already explained the mechanics of WHY 'recreational use' is virtually impossible for an addict, and also assured you that it very possible to be hooked without people being able to tell. So I'm not going to go into that part again, I sense your recurring doubts about what I and others are telling you about this as being born from a place of deep sadness in your heart, and for that I'm sorry ... I hate to be the bearer of bad news ... But I assure you, these are both FACTS, and I'm sure you'll notice that not one person here has OR WILL come along and say these things are not true. I'm sorry, that is the way it is.
And with you've said above, I become even more certain about my assertion that this has been going on for awhile... There's really no logical reason a doctor would put someone on suboxone unless they were in active addiction, so him admitting that is ONE HUGE CLUE right there. I mean, it COULD in theory be used as an alternative pain medication, it IS an opiate, and a good pain killer, but it's just not normally used that way, that would be an 'off label' use. Not impossible, as I say, but unlikely.
As I said, do some research it
I've written enough for one day, and I've talked extensively about buprenorphine probably 100 times on SR here ... if you care to search for my posts. There's tons of info about it on the web besides ... Again, there is hope, but he has to want to stop. He may not want to, and the worst thing you can do is take that possibility as some reflection on you or your family. This **** is STRONG, this drug, this disease, the allure of staying on it is very powerful, and neither you nor even HE may be able to 'will it away'. Sometimes it takes someone really hitting rock bottom before they 'wake up' and become willing to do whatever it takes to get clean. And believe me, it takes quite a struggle to accomplish. That mountain can look REALLY TALL to someone in standing at the bottom. In most cases, the disease can convince you that it'd be a lot easier to NOT climb it, and it tends to win the debate, at least until things start getting really bad for you down there at the bottom.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: CA Native
Posts: 2,509
Here's a couple good links regarding buprenorphine aka 'subs' or 'bupe'...
For all of you asking questions about it:
Buprenorphine-Frequently Asked Questions
Suboxone Subutex FAQ (Buprenorphine / Naloxone) - That's Poppycock!
For all of you asking questions about it:
Buprenorphine-Frequently Asked Questions
Suboxone Subutex FAQ (Buprenorphine / Naloxone) - That's Poppycock!
same planet...different world
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Butte, America
Posts: 10,946
I vote STICKIE !!! wow.
That was great! good job bvaljalo!!!
I LOVED THAT - not sick enough to be in bed but sick enough to be beside the phone.
perfect.
What a great PARENTAL guide as well.
That was great! good job bvaljalo!!!
I LOVED THAT - not sick enough to be in bed but sick enough to be beside the phone.
perfect.
What a great PARENTAL guide as well.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
