cleaninLI

Sorry, one more thing, are your withdrawals worse than oxy or hydro? Thanks!

Lonefang

Thanks for the welcome, CleaninLI. My doctor took me from 8mg to 4mg, then to 2mg and told me to split it in half when I felt ready, which was maybe less than a month. I didn't notice any withdraw while tapering, maybe because it was a drawn out process and I stayed on the half mg for so long. I don't exactly remember how long before my taper from the 8mg, but my guess would be every 2 months to the half mg because that's when I seen my doctor. My doctor also gave me a script of flexoril for muscle pain, naltrexone, to be a cousin to subs?, and zaphrine*, which I'm not sure if he got it right because when I looked it up, it says its an anti-nasea med for people who are going through chemo. Also, the shot form of the naltrexone, that I don't remember the name of because I don't plan on getting it. I also have a full box of subs sitting in my room and am a little proud of myself, though I've been tempted, my doctor wanted me to have that in case I relapse, I will do it on sub and not oxy.

To your other question, there's only been a few instances of beggining stages of withdraw from oxy because most of the time it was readily available and my bf and I wiped out our savings to get it. So I can't say whether or not it was worse.

cleaninLI

Thank you very much for the info lonefang. My doctor wants me to start tapering also. He wanted me to start last month but my daughter was getting married and I had to travel out-of-state. It was a very stressful time for me. I'm sure the next appointment he will ask me to start. I'm at 6 mgs but Dr. Thinks I'm at 8 mgs. I tapered down to 6 on my own a few months ago. I was going to go down further but was nervous about it. I'm assuming he will take me down half, 4 mgs as well. It's reassuring to hear that you had no withdrawals.

Good luck on your recovery. Oh btw I'm going to ask for naltrexone as well after the subs. I was on it during my first go around. (This is a relapse.) I felt it made a huge difference with combating cravings and gave me energy. I didn't relapse until 2 years after I quit taking it. I took it in pill form. I'm considering the shot. Is there a reason you don't want the shot?
Thanks so much for your help.

Lonefang

I really believe if you do a a slow taper, especially on that last mg or half mg, you will feel no withdraw. Suboxone is a powerful medicine and even the smallest dose will make you feel better, some of it may be placebo, but you still are getting that small amount, regardless. My reasons for not getting the shot, Vivitrol, is its name, I believe is that it is extremely expensive with my stupid insurance and with higher doses can cause liver damage. Plus, I already have the naltrexone. My goal is to get as far away from taking anything beyond tylenol forever.

I have a question for you. Can I ask why you relapsed? No judgement at all. I'm just wondering if these feelings will subside with time. My bf has been clean for two months now and still has a bit of trouble sleeping and says he feels like something is missing. I really don't want to go through all these symptoms again.

IWILLBFREE

Hey gang, just wanted to mention that in my own personal experience with Subs - the slower the taper, the better. Well, maybe not totally...I started at 16mg and cut to 8mg, then 4mg, then 2mg. Going from 2mg to 1mg was the hardest for me. The W/D were pretty bad for a couple days. I started researching and found out how to make a "liquid subs" and then I went down .1mgs every few days and had NO W/D's. You might try it if you are worried about having to work, etc while you're tapering off.

Best of luck,
Mel

cleaninLI

Thank you lonefang, for answering my questions. I will do that then, take small portions after the last mg or 1/2 mg. I'm trying not to go through the pain of WD!lol

The reason I relapsed is because I forgot that I was an addict or I was not convinced that I was. You know that thread by Marcus where he talks about "just once". I happened to move next door to a lady who was addicted to painkillers. We used to walk our children to the bus stop in the morning. One day she was complaining about her back pain. Then she mentioned that she took her "pill" and felt so much better. I, like a fool that I am, asked what kind of pill and she told me and I just had to say how much I love those pills. (I should've been more careful). She offered me one.........the rest is history.

Your boyfriend is missing the drugs. That is very normal to feel like something is missing after a couple months. It's like the honeymoon stage is over. It's like now what? He will need to find other things to accupy his time. Some kind of hobby or a distraction of some sort.

The good thing is that he isn't using, yet, or he wouldn't have said that. It doesn't mean he will either. It is important for him to find something to do though. Have you thought about going to meetings together?

Thanks for the info.

cleaninLI

Oh btw, thanks for the advice Mel. Can that liquid be made from the strips? So should be careful during 2 to 1 mgs also?

Thanks so much!

Lonefang

Every person is different, but I will stress that going from 1mg to a half gave me no withdraw. Maybe in the evenings, I would yawn a bit, but nothing serious and I usually found something to keep me occupied, then off to bed for tomorrows dose.

I agree wholeheartedly CleaninLI about keeping occupied and finding a hobby. Unfortunatly it does take just that one time to get you back where you started. My bf made a mistake and actually sold a couple subs to a lifelong friend, because without having insurance, my monthly cost with the dr visit and script was well over 200 dollars. She claimed she was getting ready to use if he didn't help her with the subs. He thought he was doing her a favor by keeping her away from the hard stuff even though it was wrong, he thought he could trust her. Turns out, she had been busted for meth and was asked to help with a round up. She was required to give two names to get a lighter sentence. She gave those names and just because my bf was a Probation and Parole officer, decided he needed to go down too. His name wasn't even on the list. He got put on suspension and then had to resign. We had just bought a house, but luckily, because of only using suboxone, didn't have any debt. We also have very understanding and helpful parents. He had worked there for 5 years and was a teacher in drug court. Minding his own business and helping others get through the same problems he was having.

Long story short, these past 10 months have been hell. He was able to find a job, due to his good work ethic and strong ties with a couple higher ups that were absolute angels. He is on a waiting list to go to some counceling, thank goodness. I am starting college in another month so I will have plenty to keep me busy. Not to be in denial, but we aren't the typical addicts, but we are addicts, none the less. I'm sorry for the long story, just had to vent a little.

On another note, I'm 5 days sober now and the only symptoms I have is sleeplessness and some stomach trouble. I suggest Emergen C to help with some of the lethargy and to get some good vitamins back in your system.

Thanks for your suggestions cleaninLI. I wish you the best on your taper and hope everything goes well.

cleaninLI

Thanks lonefang for giving me your experience. When I first started the sub, I knew nothing about it. The doctor I had was super crappy! Prescribed a whopping daily dose of 16 mgs twice daily! Can you imagine that? He must have been nuts or didn't know what he was doing! I became so sick! He refused my calls and wouldn't return my calls. The receptionist kept saying he was with patients. well, I ended up switching doctors. The first thing the new one did was lower my dose to 8 mgs. Wow, what a relief! I wasn't sick anymore!

I'm sorry to hear you've had so many problems! That's so mean of her to do that to your bf when he was only trying to help! I swear some people only care about themselves! At least your parents are helping you guys. That must be a big relief to have your family there for support! I'm glad he was able to get a new job! Not easy these days!

I'm originally from the Midwest too. I don't know if you've heard of Peoria, IL, but that's where I'm from. In fact my Mom was from St Louis and had family in St. Charles. I think her uncle owned a farm out that way. He's deceased now as is my Mom. Most of her immediate family moved out to CA many years ago before I was even born. I went the other direction to NYC.

Oh, btw, I'm still a Cardinal fan! Lol

Well, it's been nice chatting with you! Good luck with college.

Let me know how it goes, ok?

Marcus

I think you would be very surprised to know that MOST addicts are not the typical addicts. Stereotypes are stereotypes no matter what they are. I believe that most addicts are of above average intelligence and quite creative which is why you see many artists, rock stars, actors, etc. getting caught up in drugs and alcohol.

Not to toot my own horn but I have 3 kids, graduated from a big ten college, I am an IT manager who makes 6 figures and just happen to be a heroin addict. The thing is I am better than NO ONE. I could be that guy who is down and out living in an abandon building begging for change to get his next fix if it weren't for a very supportive family and the opportunities afforded to a upper middle class Caucasian.

For me being an addict has been a very humbling experience and I think I am a better person for it. But for the grace of God go I.

IWILLBFREE

cleaninLI-

I will PM you so that I'm not posting medical advice But, yes...you can make the liquid with strips or tabs.

-Mel

cleaninLI

Thanks a lot Mel!

Lyoness

I totally agree. I think that one thing that defines us is both our commonality and the difference of expressions in that commonality. We are addicts, all, but it can look so different from one person to the next. And someone like Marcus describes himself may be much worse off than the person living on the street.

That's why I have called myself a junkie because no matter our stories in so many ways I am no different from any other addict. It helps me to remember that so I can curb my judgmentalness--including and especially of myself--and also so I can learn from folks with stories different from mine.

Lyoness

I didn't know you had been on naltrexone before this. I would love to hear more about your experiences with it and I am sure it would help a lot of other people too. Not much gets posted about it so it's hard to learn more. I have wondered about using it after I get off the subs, too.

Maybe you could post a thread about it and talk about your experience with it?

Lonefang

CleaninLI, the college I'm going to is in St. Louis and I've been through St. Charles many times. Glad to hear you're still a Cardinal fan. I just went to a game last Saturday. I can't believe your doctor perscribed you that much! At the same time, it doesn't suprise me. Once labeled an addict, people look at you differently, like you're lower than them and yes, Marcus, you are right. My first dr. was a family doctor as well and he said he had people that he perscribed oxy and other pain killers to for very serious injuries, and those same people would come back to be perscribed suboxone. Ironic isn't it. It can reach anyone. Your success encourages me a great deal.

Lyoness, I will be starting my naltrexone on Sunday, (you have to be opiate free for 7 days before you can take it) When my bf took it, he said he felt a lot better, but didn't take but a few of them because he was so against putting even a "cousin" pill back in his system. I will give you updates too, after I take it if you like.

Day 5 Cold Turkey. I went to work today, but progress was slow. It feels like I have an extra 15lbs I'm carrying. I try to find humor where I can and joke about just getting a wheel chair (not to offend anyone who actually requires one) Anyway, if this too shall pass, lets hurry it up.

Lyoness

Lonefang, congratulations on day 5, I know it's hard and that is awesome that you're doing it! I guess I missed somewhere in the posts that you were going on naltrexone, too. I would love to read about it and I am sure that it would be helpful to others too.

cleaninLI

Lonefang, you are doing great! Hang in there it gets better! I know that lack of energy is the hardest part, though!


Lyoness, yes I was on it about 5 years ago. I felt it helped with paws and cravings as I seemed to bounce back quickly. I never should have stopped taking it. You know that crazy addict thinking that somehow I'm no longer an addict, I've been cured and don't need it anymore.

Lonefang

I'm sorry to say that I've relapsed today. I took the naltrexone a day earlier than it says to, just wanting some relief and it knocked me into withdraw so hard that I could barely move. I took 1mg sub and am extremely depressed and dissappointed in myself. I am considering going to a treatment facility. I very well may be in denial but I am convinced that I am having symptoms unrelated or in direct relation to withdraw. I am constantly out of breath even after taking antihistimines containing anxiety medication. I also have chest pains and my blood pressure is elevated, which I know the blood pressure thing is a symptom.

Can anyone please tell me that tomorrow without the sub won't be like going back to day one?

fancyfee

Lonefang I'm sorry you are going through this. You might want to go to an Urgent Care or hospital to get things checked out? Maybe some type of drug interaction?

I hope you feel better!

cleaninLI

Lonewolf, are you saying you took the naltrexone early and caused you to WD, then you took a suboxone to counteract the naltrexone?

Honestly, I'm not a health professional, so I don't know if what you felt was WD or a reaction to the naltrexone. If this is the first time you took naltrexone and had that kind of reaction, it could be an allergy to the med. Withdrawal could do that too, but I'm worried about your bp being so high as well as the fact that you aren't getting enough oxygen. Can you go to the emergency room? Please call your parents or boyfriend to take you there. Taking the sub on top of naltrexone would probably throw you into deeper precipitated withdrawal. You realize you are not suppose to take an oppiate while on naltrexone, right? That could make you very sick. Please let us know how you are doing! Please seek medical attention! ASAP!