Cleanwithdreams7

I am thinking that I may have rushed things a little bit.

How long do you think that one should be on methadone before deciding to wean off?

Blood500

How long where you on it Clean ?

tsmba

That is a question no one here can begin to answer. What does your doc say?

Dee74

I agree - this is a question for you and your Dr, Clean

D

Cleanwithdreams7

I've been on the Methadone for about 13 or 14 months so far.

After being on it for about half a year, I started to wean off. Noone advised me to, but I just kinda did it at my own will, and thought I knew what was best at the time. Back than I was thinking, "I haven't used the other Opiates for a while"(half a year at that time), "so it shouldn't really be a problem".

The original plan was for me to stay on the Methadone for at least as long as I was using the other Opiates that got me here in the first place(2.5 years), before weaning down. But I kinda got scared of being on the Methadone for so long and thought it would be wise to wean off sooner than later. I guess I have read and heard a lot of negative opinions about it, and I didn't really feel that accepted at the time. But really, It's a way better choice than using the other Opiates I used to be into. And I guess, why should it matter what other people think? When it's my life that's on the line, and my life that's been improving since I've went on the Methadone. I guess it should only matter what I think, and what's best for me right now. I just don't think a lot of people understand how much problems an Opiate addiction can really bring, and how hard it actually is to stop using for some people.

I used to be on 90mgs a day and at that dose I had some side-effects. The sweating was pretty rediculous, and I don't think I needed to be on that high of a dose. I have been on 40mgs a day for almost two months now. I find that when I wake up I feel pretty sick before I get my dose, and I have thoughts that I normally wouldn't have after a dose and throughout the day. Thoughts that I don't want to have.

I told my Doctor that I kinda think I was rushing things a little bit yesterday, and they agreed with me that I was. They said they kinda had to let me go through my own process and that they couldn't really tell me not to wean down if I wanted to.

In my opinion, the way I was heading I might have been heading for a relapse..

I mean I really haven't even done that much of anything since I've gotten on the Methadone to actually give me a fighting chance for once I get off. No preperation(meetings, programs, etc.), or anything really. NADA. I mean I've quit using drugs(all of them except Methadone). I stopped smoking and drinking, and am slowly weaning down on my NRT as well. But I haven't really stopped all of that for that long when I think about it. And I think it's kinda silly for me to want to get this all over with so fast, and tell myself everythings cured because I've been doing well.

I mean Methadone pretty much saved my life, and I feel like I shouldn't stop what saved my life, especially when I haven't built that much of a life yet for myself as it is. I still have debts from my addiction, I still wanna buy a lot of stuff for myself, I still wanna get a liscence, I still wanna get my own place, I still wanna pick what I want to go into and eventually go to school, etc.. And now I'm thinking I'd rather do what I want to do with my life first(before weaning down), and get myself to where I want to be. Not do it the other way around, and put my life on hold, and than do all of that stuff afterwards, while risking a relapse inbetween.

I don't know what I was thinking really. I guess I kinda scared myself into getting off.

I really don't want to take the chance of my addiction resurfacing. And when I wake up, before I get my dose, I can kinda feel that addict part of me somewhat there if you know what I mean. It's kinda hard for me to wrap my finger around it. But I know that when I was on a proper dose of Methadone everything seemed "normal" to me. No cravings, no trying to potentiate my Methadone, no unwanted thought, just good.

I'm coming up on 4 months without Pot. But I think I should stay on a proper dose of Methadone and get more of a life going for myself before considering going off. Plus, I want to be off of ALL substances(exceot Methadone) for longer than just a couple months(maybe a year or more). I mean I even started to think of Pot and stupid **** like that during certain points, before I got my dose or when I was feeling sick. And normally it wouldn't be like that. And I really don't want to start smoking Pot or doing any other drugs again. I didn't like that lifestyle at all and life is so much better without those drugs.

I also think I should learn better ways to cope with stresses befoire rushing off of the Methadone. That way if things go wrong I wont have to think of using some kind of drug.

And I think I'd rather be on a proper dose of Methadone, than risk relapsing on stuff that I've already quit and am happy about as is.

I guess I had it in my mind that I'd be able to handle things on my own.. But that's kinda the thinking that got me here in the first place.

I think I might be going up on my dose the next time I see my Doctor, and actually doing it right this time. Maybe actually following what the Doctor thinks is best, and not just thinking to myself that I know it all and can handle things. I mean if I can work towards a good future on Methadone for a while, than that's better than having no future on short-acting Opiates in my personal opinion.

Lots of people who haven't been down this road might not understand my opinions os views, or might disagree with Methadone all together. But they don't have a clue how the life of an addict actually is, and a lot them only go by bad things that they have heard. I feel like I live in an Opio-phobic society.

I have to focus on what's best for me.

I don't think it would be very smart to risk something so big. And I guess 13-14 months away from my old drugs of choice isn't really that long, considering how much and how long I was using them, and where I've gotten to in that time frame. I mean I'm doing good with the whole not using other drugs thing right now, but I want to be doing better before coming off of the Methadone completely.

Blood500

Thanks for that Clean. I have dealt with a lot of the things you brought up on methadone and struggled with the 'how long' issue as well. Keep posting your experience might help others in their path. Thanks.

jazz66

I totaly agree with you on methadone saving ower lives when we first want to quit the opiats i got my life totaly back together in the last 6 years of my 17 year methadone journey ..
and like you stoped drinking smoking all drugs exsept methadone for 6 years

It;s when i disided to stop thats when the problems started .
In my opinion you carnt lern to deal with stress and life in general when still on the methadone
becasue we are still conten wooled by it even if we dont no it at the time ..

the last two and half years since quiting the methadone have been the strangest of my hole life.. not all bad but sertanly not what i had exspected after 6 years of cleen living ..

i would have been better of staying on it or getting of it as soon as possibull

im not sure if its the methadone thats messed my head up or it was just masking a messed up head .
my opinion its the former ..

If i had to do it again id get of methadon as soon as possibull

Cleanwithdreams7

In a way I agree with you on some of the things that you said jazz.

Before using drugs I always felt pretty alienated. Almost like everyone new what they were doing and I was kinda clueless and felt left out from many things. Everyone seemed so much happier than I was and not as bothered by things. I used to think something was wrong with me. And than right when drugs came into play everything changed, and no longer did I feel like that out of place guy.

My Dad was using Opiates and a lot of other crap before I was born. And I almost think my brain chemistry was off in some kind of way. I'm not sure whether or not to believe in endorphin deficiancy yet, but I think it's a possibility(considering right when I started to use Opiates I felt "normal" for once). I remeber always thinking to myself when I was using, that Opiates should be given to me for free. That's how much I believed that they were supposed to be there back than. It all felt so ment to be at the time.

Now on Methadone, without any other drugs even, I don't really feel like that alien anymore, I feel "normal". And I'm grateful for that, otherwise I'd probably be using drugs right now, whether it be smoking Pot or using Opiates. I'm not really sure if I have just grown up from all of the years and changed from my experiences, or if the Methadone is masking something like you said. But whatever the case may be, I do think it's important to learn how to better cope wth things on your own. And to gain the feeling of 'normalcy' on your own as well(if that's even possible). Addiction runs in my family genes from both sides. And I'm sure others know where I'm comin from with all of this.

17 years to stay on the Methadone though is a pretty long time(no offense at all jazz). And I'm sure just like any drug, if you were on it for that long it would probably take a while to get used to life without it, and for you to accept that there actually is one without it. I know for smokers who have been smoking for 20 years or so of their life, they have a much harder time giving it up and seeing it as possible, and even coping afterwards. And maybe if you were on the Methadone for as long as you were than it would be better to just stay on it, or like you said come off of it sooner. But the fact is, you didn't stay on it. You chose to come off, and I see that as an inspiration. I'm sure others can have more belief that it's possible to do so by hearing your story as well jazz. I mean if people who have been using Methadone for 20 years of their life can come off of it, than I think that pretty much says right there that anyone can do it if they really want to.

But I don't think that people who have been on it for as long as I have(one year so far), and don't have there life together yet, should just come off right away. I know for me, I'm using it to get my life to the right spot(at least to where it was beofre I started using Opiates). And I don't think it would be smart to come off of it before I had things together. Because in a way that leaves a bigger opening for a relapse on either my old DOCs or the other drugs that I have already quit since starting the Methadone, and I really don't want either of those. I mean some people(like myself), use or have used, those problems or the wreckage as a big excuse to use drugs.

So I do agree with using Methadone if you're using it to get your life back, and to gain more tools and knowledge to better handle getting over your addiction when the time comes(like myself). I know when I was addicted to the other Opiates I didn't have that kind of time to work on my life, and go to meetings/addiction programs, talk to professionals, etc.. Nor did I want to do any of that back than. I was stuck in the viscious cycle, while slowly killing myself, and I just didn't give a damn.

I think in the position that I'm in, I'm going to use it to get myself to the right spot and than look at coming off than. I don't think it will take six years for me to repair the damage either. I'm maybe looking at two more or three until I focus on leaving the Methadone in the dust. So in a sense that time frame is the soonest that I can come off(while doing things right, the way I see them).

And at the same time, I'm not going to go up to some rediculously high dose again either like I used to be at(90mgs), and reverse all the work that I've already put in. I used to still have more of the addict mind frame back than, so I used to always think that more was better. But I learned from the side-effects and from experience as well, that when it comes to Methadone, more is not always better. And too little is not good either. But I am going to go up to the minimum blocking dose, and the dose that professionals see as the best dose for people to avoid a relapse. It is said that 60mgs is the minimum, so I'm thinkin 60mgs is the furthest I will go. Check this site out for more info: http://www.minddisorders.com/Kau-Nu/Methadone.html


And really I guess it all depends on how my life turns out afterwards. And in a way, how bad the user was and how they turn out. I mean if problems arise when I come off, and if somehow my brain resorts to using again, than maybe Methadone would be a better option for life long maintenance for myself. But if I can keep things in control and avoid relapsing on drugs, than I would rather learn to cope with life on its own after the Methadone has done its job.

And BTW I'm not saying it's a bad thing that you were on it for as long as you were and than decided to come off. And I'm not saying it's a bad thing that it took you six years to repair the damage either(some people have more damage than others to repair). In my opinion it's awesome that you decided to come off, and even better that you were able to stay off and are where you are at now. So on that note, congrats jazz!! That musta been one hell of a journey.

But I guess I am saying that, in my position it's far too early to come off now just because I have heard from others that they think they should have come off as soon as possible.

I mean sometimes before I get my dose, I feel the addict kinda in the back of my mind. I don't feel I've had enough time away from the other Opiates yet really as well, and I can't even imagine how things might turn out if I just deicded to come off now, do the work after I get over the PAWS, and risk relapsing in-between. I mean there's a huge chance that it would happen because of all that is going on, and because I would be completely sober. And like I said earlier, because I am pretty much in the same spot still that I was before I started the Methadone. Aside from a few little changes, there's still a lot of big changes that need to happen. And I guess I thought I could go to the lowest dose possible while making the changes. But after learning some new stuff since than, I realised that was a big mistake on my part, and that's really not how things should have been done.

As this statistic says, the minimum effective dose is 60 mgs daily taken at once or in divided doses. Patients on lower maintenance doses have recently been studied and have shown shorter treatment retention and have continued heroin use. If patients are stable on methadone for six months or longer, their methadone dose should not be increased by 33% or over, as this sudden increase in dose is associated with an increase in craving for the drugs that were previously abused. Some heroin patients need to be on doses up to 180 mg daily to provide adequate maintenance and to prevent relapse.

In all honesty I have felt a bit of cravings from time to time, since lowering my dose this soon in. And there have been times where the addict in me has even researched potentiators for the Methadone since lowering my dose as well. So I would rather be at the right dose, and not have to have those cravings or desires for potentiators at this moment in time. And I'm just not down to risk relapsing and going back to that lifestyle, and ruining my life even more so, and losing everything.

I agree with the not staying on it longer than is needed part(unless planning to be on it for life).

And even if I have to be on it for life, that is a way better life than being on the other Opiates that I was using. And the way I see it, I have a way better chance of being alive longer on the Methadone, than on the other Opiates if I ever choose to just stay on it. I mean if the individual would be using the other short-acting Opiates for life, than I think it would be a much wiser choice to use Methadone for life instead.

Everyone is different, and some people are more severe than others.

But whatever the case may be, I guess time will only tell.

And like you said, Methadone did save my life. There's no denying that. And I will always be grateful for that, no matter what I have to go through when the time comes to come off.

Cleanwithdreams7

I've actually been looking into some symptoms that are said to be caused by Endorphin deciciancy syndrome. And a lot of the symptoms listed are identical to how I used to be like throughout my time growing up(before trying Opiates). I had a lot of these symptoms before even using drugs, so maybe some of it could have been related to genetics.

I was always extremely sensitive to things. The only way I felt safe was if I was at home, sheltered, and away from the outside world. I would take everybody and everything very seriously. I was the most shy person around and I had very low self-esteem. Going along with the sensitivity, I was also very sensitive to people and didn't like to hurt them or see them in pain. I didn't like to be in pain myself, so why would I want to hurt someone else? I always took peoples insults very seriously. If people made fun of me, I took it to heart. This in return, made me a very nice person(which I still am to this day). I've always noticed others didn't take those kinda things so seriously. They didn't seem so seirous about certain things like I was. In fact, a lot of them wouldn't even get made fun of as much as me because the person making the fun would know that that person wouldn't care if they were to get bugged. Others seemed to be able to be themselves in front of anyone, but I couldn't be myself in front of anybody(unless they were my close family that I was around my whole life). I wasn't outgoing. I even used to like hanging out by myself better because I figured if I was alone I wouldn't get hurt, this is how serious I took everything.

I used lots of other drugs before trying Opiates, but none of them I really liked. I was very sensitive to Marijuanas effects, and I would get overly anxious and worried. But when I tried Opiates, it was different. I remember thinking to myself, "this is how things are supposed to be".

When I tried Opiates for that first time my world changed. For once I felt "normal". I wasn't afraid of things anymore and I could be the person that I always wanted to be in front of anyone.

I'm sure some people could relate to this. And maybe the term "endorphin deficiancy syndrome' has some truth to it afterall.

I really don't know if I should fully believe it yet. I mean right now on the Methadone, I feel the most "normal" that I have in a very long time.

I don't know if I will be that same person that I was before trying the Opiates, when I stop the Methadone. And I am not even completely sure if coming off of the Methadone would make me better off.

I want to leave the Methadone behind me some day once my life feels good and ready to do so and is repaired. But at the same time, I don't want to feel like I'm out of place again. I don't want to be tempted to use the Opiates that got me here in the first place when that time comes.

I do know that a life on Methadone is far better than a life on short-acting illegal Opiates.

And like I said, I guess time can only tell what will come.

jazz66

I think you could be wright im still quit a shy person my self . but was brought up as a kid to always fight my corner . witch i did .that prity much alienated me from normal people to witch i still feal alien.
now adays withought opiats i can feal infearear witch is most of the time
or suppearear.
but never realy on a level with people. that could have somthing to do with the lenghth of time i have been usuing drugs .
i have used opiats since stoping methadone i.e smoking herowin on ocashion
and to be totaly onest every time i have.
ive been glade of the escape from realaty .
what has helped quit a lot are seratonem enhansing anty depresants
witch do work even after battering my reseperts for most of my life
but im still not comfertabull in my own skin

may be going back to methadone is the wright thing to do for me i now my famely think so. its sertanly better than getting hooked back on herowin.
like you said..
eny way clean you seem to have your head screwed on and im sure you will make the best disishions for you .. good luck in whatever you choose
.

Cleanwithdreams7

Well whatever you choose to do Jazz, I know you will pick what's best for you.

And if your family agrees than that's even better.

It most certainly is better than going back to H and the crap that got us here in the first place.

I went up to 50 almost a week ago and things have been feeling a little better. The cravings lessoned.

My Doctor said that 60-70mgs is the dose that completely gets rid of cravings. I also know thet 60mgs is the minimum blocking dose, or the dose that blocks other Opiates.

So I am going to 60mgs sometime next week and I'm thinking that should be good for me. I'm hoping that dose will be 'just right' for me.

I don't want to go all the way up to 90 again, because at that dose I had too much side-effects and I don't think I needed that much.

I want to find the dose that's not too much but not too little. I think this is important when it comes to Methadone.

I will update when I go up and reprt if things change for the better.

I hope things work out for you, and I hope you find your place, with or without Methadone.

Thanks for the support. I really appreciate it.

FT

Hi CleanWithDreams,

You are right about the endorphin deficiency syndrome. It was actually coined "The Reward Deficiency Syndrome" by Kenneth Blum, PhD, in his article in American Scientist, Vol. 84, No. 2 (MARCH-APRIL 1996), in which he talked about studies that showed a deficiency in the "Dopamine D2 receptor", associated with alcohol and drug abuse, as well as smoking, gambling, obesity, and more.

Funny, but not funny, is that the pleasure and reward system in the brain was discovered by accident in 1954 by a psychologist who was studying rat brains. This guy made a mistake and electrically stimulated the "wrong" part of the rat brain, shocking the limbic system (emotional part of the brain) and making the rats press a lever. Dr. Olds (the psych dude) found that the rats would press the lever almost non stop, as many as 5,000 times an hour. "The animals would stimulate themselves to the exclusion of everything else except sleep. They would endure tremendous pain and hardship for an opportunity to press the lever."

So, this is what some of us do in addiction. Once we discover our "lever" (drugs, alcohol, whatever), we go back and continue pressing it until we self destruct. Except, as humans, we are self aware and rational and can override these urges -- maybe.

Interesting stuff. Let me know if you want to read the article, but it is a medical journal article, and it is dry, and not pleasure reading. (no lever pushing there -- ha!)

Keep up the good work, CWD.

FT

Cleanwithdreams7

Hey FT. Thanks for the info!

I would definitely be down to read the article.

You can PM me or just send it through here. It sounds pretty interesting to me.

jazz66

cleen i think its the sencertive people who are more suseptabull to addiction
in my case my father was a well know bownser or doorman my ellder brother was always trying to prove himself.
then there was me ... i never got hit of my famely but if i came home having been betten up thay made me go back out ..if i got betten again .i had to go back out again .
that was never me inside the fear was over welming but going home withought winning was worse
its crazzy it got to the point were i thought all my frends were only with me through fear ..witch i hated ..

but luckaly i found a good person who sawer through all that and we have been together 19 years

FT

Hey,

I don't think there is a way to attach the article to PM's. What you could do is Google the article, using exactly the title I gave you. That will give you an "abstract". After reading the abstract, if you still want to read the article, we can figure that out then.

FT

Cleanwithdreams7

Thanks for telling me about The Reward Defiiency Syndrome FT. It's actually pretty interesting to me .

If any of the readers are interested, you can check out more about The Reward Deficiency Syndrome here: Reward Deficiency Syndrome

This almost makes me wonder if taking certain amino acids or supplements would help. Like 'L-Tyrosine' is supposed to help us create more Dopamine in the brain. And 5HTP is supposed to help us create more Serotonin. Than there's also the supplement called 'GABA' that you can buy, etc..
I wonder if people who are lacking certain chemicals would benefit from taking some of these things. Definitely something to think about.

gottoserenity

Stay on it as long as you want to not relapse. I am in my 11th year of MMT.

Cleanwithdreams7

Thanks for the advice Serenity.

I think you are right. I really do not want to relapse on the stuff that I used to be into, EVER.

I didn't like the feeling of old cravings surfacing up when I was on too low of a dose(40mgs), and it kinda scared me to. But at the same time it kinda made me realize why I am on the Methadone in the first place, and this time around I will not forget.

I'm glad I chose to go up before I did anything stupid. And I'm glad I was able to recognize the signs/symptoms before things went any further to.

I went up to 60mgs this morning from 50. I think this dose is gonna be perfect for me, and I don't think I'm gonna need to go up any higher than 60mgs a day. Already I'm feeling so much more "normal" than I used to be feeling. I think I have found the right spot.. I hope anyways.

Like I said before, when I first went on the Methadone, I went up way too high(90mgs a day). I still used to think that more was better back than. But on 90mgs I had way too much side-effects(rediculous sweating, etc.). And I kinda had a feeling that I didn't actually need that much.

But right now I think that 60mgs a day is perfect for me. After being on it for a little over a year, I'm pretty sure I have FINALLY found my place with the Methadone. So far this dose feels not too low, but at the same time, not too high. I hope it will continue to hold me just right, and I guess I will just have to see.

I'm glad that I know now that having too much isn't a good thing though. And this time I can actually use it for what it's ment to be used for.

And at the same time, it helps that now I am actually completely sober from EVERYTHING else as well. Because when I first went on the Methadone, I was still using Pot and other stuff. But now I've given up smoking Pot, smoking Cigarettes, drinking alcohol, and every other drug imaginable as well. I've even stopped having Caffeine to, and because of that my doses seem to last longer than they did when I still had the Caffeine in my diet.

I will update things in about a week and post whether or not my new dose is still working perfectly for me. I have a good feeling about it though .

FT

Hi Clean,

I just answered on another thread so I won't repeat it here.

Ditto what I said there.

Good job.

FT

Blood500

I had seem to find that "perfect dose" a multiple of times to just have it last a few weeks and repeat the pattern. I have to say that I am so much clearer these days off of meth and I am glad of my choice to stay on it short term, use it to stabilize myself some what, maybe just trying what I thought was the easier softer way and moving on like I said before I also choose to medically detox from it whack also was the best choice for me, i didn't realize how much of a fog I was in while on methadone until I was completely off it. I wish you the best on your journey here, keep us posted.