sainos

Just to add to my last post, cos I'm too late to edit, I had the recovery woman externally telling me I was insane. Internally, I had the AV of the Beast saying "Well, you are going to look stupid if you have to crawl back to her next time you are desperate won't you?"
And I thought "Ignore them Sainos, you can do it" in a squeaky little thought voice. But after reading on here and more of Trimpey my thought voice isn't squeaky any more haha

Dee74

Just a reminder.

The Secular Connections forum is for the discussion of secular methods:

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ml#post3833577

If you want to compare and contrast secular methods against AA you can do that in just about any other forum, providing the discussion is within the site rules..

Noone wants to remove posts, so if you guys could remember this, that would be great

Dee
Moderator
SR

sainos

Sorry Dee, I was trying to make a point about the services on offer and lack of choice of the NHS recovery services, not any specific points of the programs themselves.

sainos

It would be great if there were an "advisory agency" where you could go and get unbiased information on all recovery methods out there, including going it alone, instead of having to research yourself though.
Sometimes it can take years to come across some things. Including the idea that you CAN do it off your own bat and succeed. As society at large has generally ingrained it in peoples minds and it's own collective consciouness that they can't.
I don't suppose that will ever happen. Things will probably stay as fragmented as they are now forever.

GerandTwine

This Secular Recovery Forum is a step in the right direction. It is a forum open to public view. It has effective groundrules. And it has people like us that have an altruistic tendency to see the value to society to stick around and join in the discussion.

As I said several hours ago, I believe this forum with threads like this one can become part of recovery history itself. Are we like Bill Gates tinkering in his garage? I'd say that would more be like Jack and Lois Trimpey. Our job is to maintain a consistent integrity here regarding what they've spent a lifetime developing against great odds.

I remember in the beginning when Terminally Unique was making a concerted effort to raise the "Tag" size of all AVRT terms here on Sober Recovery. I really don't know how much difference tags make in spreading the AVRT word, so that's not something I'm into.

So, thanks SR administrators (Morning Glory, and other decision-makers).

GT

sainos

Yes this forum has been a goldmine of information on AVRT!
So, yes, me too thank you Morning Glory and other decision-makers!
I would hate to see it degenerate into yet just another "my method is better than your method" type of internet recovery forum, like so many have over the years..and it's great that such a good job has been made of that not happening, so real discussions can take place about what you want to know about AVRT

Algorithm

There is no money to be made from encouraging independent recovery from addiction, although certainly it would save quite a bit of public tax funds. I like to think that people are generally not bad, but the fact is that money does corrupt, all over the world, and few people are willing to risk their jobs over 'the right thing to do', much less for people who like to get drunk and high.

The universe is generally ruthless towards the gullible and the vulnerable, and addicted people are often prone to be both once the consequences of their addiction pile up. I'm mindful that the Beast is also ruthless, and that their Addictive Voice colors their thoughts, urging them to do anything and everything except the obvious, but addiction, and recovery from addiction, is no different, in the grand scheme of things.

There is a vast amount of free information available here on AVRT, for anyone to read, and Rational Recovery is apparently allowing their materials to be discussed on here for free. They usually do not allow professional addiction counselors to offer AVRT for a fee, since they know from experience that those professionals will fundamentally change its meaning as means of independent recovery.

Furthermore, the Sober Recovery administrators are also allowing discussion of AVRT on here, and free access to the forums. Still, I am certain that more than a handful of addicted people who run across this forum will not make use of all this freely available material. They won't even bother to read it.

So, while some will inevitably cater to the Beast, and fortify the Addictive Voice, by suggesting that nobody can possibly skewer the Beast on their own, they are not the only guilty party. The addicted, who usually want free spoon-fed wisdom, and as little personal discomfort as possible, also bear some of the burden.

I am keenly and painfully aware that their Addictive Voice is working overtime against them, but the universe will exert a price for not standing up against their own Beast and -- as you did -- anyone who caters to it. In the best case, that price will be precious lost time and money spent 'working on the problem'. In the worst case, it will be their life.

Just the way it is.

wtfook

Never a truer word

shockozulu

That won't happen on my watch. Don't worry. At first it took a bit of time to find the balance but ever since we've been a vigilant team on this issue.

In my county, the courts will accept signed cards from all the major programs including SMART and Celebrate Recovery among others. We even have a Buddhist Meditation group. Not only will they accept these signed cards but the judges in our drug and alcohol court also have these meetings in the lists they give out to offenders. Although 50% of people who consume too much alcohol and/or drugs do recover without any help I can understand why a judge would at least want to see some accountability. That said, I do mention in my meeting introduction that many recover without any help.

CelticZebra

So I think I kinda misunderstood the OP question/quandary about recovery website addiction.
I discovered AVRT, (previously was about 9 years ago and I carried on drinking, tried AA, SMAaRT, Turning point, moderation, had different therapies and medication via NHS, I used to think like it was someone else's fault I was like this and of course it was never as simple as that and I remember making a BP lie being under the influence of alcohol and finding SR and just thought there's so many people out there doing the same thing as me, I'm young (under 30) and I carried on drinking on and on regardless, neve believing I could do it without help from someone else.
Then a little over 3 years ago, through reading posts on this wonderful website and desperately searching for a way to stop completely, I was upsetting myself, my family, I didn't want to live like this.
I had my ace moment, I learnt about AVRT and stopped drinking via the flash cards and didn't post here until I hadn't drunk for 4 months, until I felt stronger, I spent weeks and months reading all of TU's posts about AVRT, I started to recognise names like FreshStart, SoberWolf, Dee, loads of names that I can't remember but are still here and posting today and still don't drink and in some way or another they did it themselves, just like ultimately we all have to do the same thing if we want to be sober and stay stopped.
AVRT is the only method that has ever worked for me and I have worked really hard on letting go of the blame and I don't often come to SR when I'm strong in my recovery or busy in my life, at least, I never used to.
I was very selfish in my first months and year of recovery until I had learnt to trust myself that I was stronger than my beast and by using AVRT and immersing myself I was able to 'retrain' my brain. I learnt more about myself and why I think the way I do and researched about the brain science too because it totally fascinates me.
I think the saying is 'take what you like and leave the rest' sort of makes sense when applied to recovery methods in general but ultimately it's only ourselves that we can change in this world and without AVRT I wouldn't have had the necessary tools to change my thinking. I made a Big Plan, I wrote it down, I repeated it over and over and the more I said it to myself the more I believed it, I truly felt euphoric, the ACE effect, an epiphany I hadn't felt so sure about anything for about 20 years.
Neural pathways are interesting, I watched that video, it was a tad boring I felt but I have got the rational Recovery book by J Trimpney and have used it, along with these boards and other research into brain science to achieve long lasting sobriety with a support group here at SR who are always available, have invaluable advice and I'm proud to be able to use this site when and if I chose to on my journey.
Think I just rambled off course a bit, congratulations to all for being sober, however you have achieved this and thanks to all for your insightful comments about the human condition.

quotable

dwtbd

(That's one badass Zebra)

freshstart57

Congratulations to you, CelticZ! You are awesome. Onward!

Fusion

Nooooo, you haven't rambled at all CelticZebra, I absolutely loved your post, every word of it. I agree, as Dwtbd said, you're one Badass Zebra and as Freshstart said, Onward! I feel like a trainee Badass, but I'm following in great footsteps.

So glad you're still here CZ, I adore the enthusiasm in your posts, your energy and authenticity.

soberlicious

CZ,
I love your post and how you express the freedom you've found. Rambling? On the contrary, I found your words deeply authentic. I enjoy reading them, and I enjoy knowing others who are suffering will read them too, and find much needed hope.

Steely

Someone way back there said they, "felt sorry" for Newcomers for thinking in terms of an AV. The "IT" idea. Thanks for your sorrow

I'm a Newcomer and I don't think in terms of an IT. I know it's ME.

This post refers to posts made way back.