neferkamichael

I like to make people aware that when you are in an AA meeting you are still in a room full of drunks and I can clearly see that when you are in a Secular Connections thread you are still in a room full of drunks. Rootin for everyone.

trachemys

Wherever I go, there's a drunk.

caboblanco

we are all drunks therefore our behavior can be accounted for that even when sober. for years...I get it...and we have to remember at the end of the day we are just drunks


here we go again

trachemys

Let me rephrase myself, cabo.

Wherever I go, there's a drunk waiting to happen.

LadyinBC

When I wasn't really ready to quit drinking I spent a lot of energy whining, making excuses and relapsing over and over again. Any approach to sobriety is only good if you are working it for you. Doesn't matter what program or method you use. Until I got to the point of actually wanting to be sober, nothing was going to work.

It is frustrating to see people doing the same thing over and over again, but I do try to remember that I was once there too and they need to find their own way, just like I did.

My journey to sobriety is very personal and unique to me.

NightsWatch

This is interesting from my perspective on the difference between Eastern and Western philosophies on medicine, and I see the points for both. I took a mindfulness course that wasn't affiliated with Buddhism (in fact, it was affiliated with the neuroscience program at a big research university), but if anyone has delved into the mindfulness culture in our country, you can see that it has Eastern roots. Anyway, the subject of placebos came up. I was a psych major in college, so I think it's a big deal to differentiate the difference between something having a "real" effect vs a placebo effect. That's Western thinking and it's something I value very much, given my natural desire to know the Truth (even the unpleasant ones). But what they told us in the discussion is that in Eastern medicine, there isn't a big distinction between real effects and placebo effects. That is because people given placebos DO display the real effects of improving. So if someone improves on a sugar pill, why take that away from them?

Obviously from a science standpoint, it's important to know if something is placebo or not (and I would personally want to know), but I do see the practicality and usefulness in allowing placebos to improve the health of people. What I believe it really comes down to is our brains. When we believe something, it can affect us physiologically, emotionally, and mentally. What we believe doesn't have to be true for those effects to occur in our bodies. Maybe having the comfort of a belief that something is absolutely true can reduces stress (cortisol) and other negative impacts on our bodies. Behaviorally, if you believe something is absolutely true, you don't let the thought of "can I do it??" hold you back (think Dumbo and his "magic" feather).

Anyway, as far as the topic goes for alcohol addiction, I think whatever someone finds that works for them works, and so it is valid FOR THEM, and that is what matters most in this struggle we all share.

samseb5351

I have really liked reading this thread, seeing points of view and seeing some great expressions of personal recovery, processes and events. There always seems to be tension in dynamic and thoughtful discussion and this thread is a great example. When it comes down to it my years in recovery it has always had the edge of tension to it, instead of running from or fighting the tension these days I see it as "grist for the mill" and enjoy a mindful contemplative approach, questioning and healthy skepticism. It surprises me little that at certain points in the last 10 years I felt I was So Right, unshakable in my belief, only to have it fall apart when reality hits.

leviathan

as for the frustration with repetitiveness, I was recently reminded that a person having difficulty is more likely to be involved in a site like this. people in long term recovery are not engaging so much, and if they are its for reasons other than support.

this built-in bias is more obvious in different forums.

after lurking too much on the F and F page, I asked my spouse how much I do the "dry drunk" thing. I asked if my reactions to the stresses of my life currently seem, for the most part, to be in the ballpark of normal emotional functioning. To find a post on that page speaking to the blessings that recovery has brought to a particular relationship is pretty rare. she reminded me that she pretty much stopped posting as we got better, and others prob. do also. (she also told me to give my lurking a break.)

im new to recovery. at 4+ months this is my first go with a PERSONAL goal to be done. if I relapse, I will use different methods. -that's the frustrating part to me. I would never attend the same rehab a second time (finances permitting).

step work allows for some self inventory. that in itself cannot be so bad. im always down for that. I think more folks should do self inventory. it might make the world a better place. i will however, BUG OUT if someone tries to tell me MY answers. this happens sometimes in the sponsor/sponsee relationship. ive witnessed it.

part of the reason this site is so popular is that there is such a vast amount of misinformation about recovery. i purposely looked for techniques and thoughts that would help me free myself. im not knocking others. if it works, it works. i just couldn't see myself going to meetings 17 years from now, as required maintenance. last thing i want to be doing is talking about drinkin still.

fini

i just couldn't see myself going to meetings 17 years from now, as required maintenance. last thing i want to be doing is talking about drinkin still

leviathan,
my experience is that people in longer sobriety who go to meetings/forums...well, they don't usually talk about drinking at all. nor do they speak about wanting to do some drinking, or that it's difficult not to.
just something i've most definitely noticed.

Soberpotamus

I liked your post, Leviathan. I did want to comment on this part, because I have found that there are quite a few in long term recovery here who inspire me. And from whom I learn.

biminiblue

I went to meetings for four months. I am very grateful that old-timers take the time to still go to meetings 30 years after they have stopped drinking. In their words, they do it to give back. They do it to reach out to people who are still suffering. I've heard some of them say they do it to never forget where they could wind up if they pick up that first drink. Meetings often have newcomers with very sad tales. They also have old timers who believe that to keep it they have to give it away. That's a pretty profound thought.

Many of the old timers have tragic stories of huge losses in their lives. I would never want to forget that, either. To hear how they have turned themselves around can be life-changing for a newcomer who is in the clutches of alcohol.

samseb5351

I really liked this quote.
When I saw something in my recovery, for example 12 steps and I could not stay on board with the core principles of Powerless and Higher Power, it was tempting to "throw the baby out with the bathwater" and join a resentful band of Anti 12 steppers. Going from being a Big Book Thumper myself to a Atheist Humanist Free thinker today was slow BUT it had moments where I preferred to paint a "cartoonish" picture of AA, probably as a way to justify my decision to leave something I loved so much (cognitive dissonance). When I actually brought back some truth to what had happened and where I had been, I saw that a few practices I use today had there roots in the 12 steps and my bumbling attempts to live up to them.
For example I did a pretty full on 4th step as per the instructions in the Big Book, it actually turned out to be my first honest attempt at mindfulness and once I stripped away Divine intervention and Handing over to a HP there was still value in seeing how distorted my thinking was and how unjustified most of resentments and fears were. This ended up being a very similar process to SMARTS ABC's. I am grateful for that......