cleaninLI

Hey ladies!

I'm sorry I wasn't around much this weekend. I was pretty busy....out and about. I tend to do all my running around on the weekend. Since we only have the one car and I don't feel like going out after 7 or 8 o'clock on weekdays.

Sunday was my fun day. We went out for coffee and bagels and then to a store that's sort of become one of my favorites. It happens to be near the bagel shop. I brought home only one Nesquick...since my son specifically asked for it. Well that didn't go over well so I had to run out and buy another for my daughter. Ended up picking up a dozen doughnuts too....since it was the nearest place I knew of that had those drinks. Came back and sat around drinking coffee and eating doughnuts. Gaining 50 lbs!!! That is the down side of quitting smoking....but will get serious about it soon. On day 65 today! Yay!

Then went back out to get my grocery shopping done. Detoured over to Home Depot to pick up some potting soil and a large pot. I am transferring a Norfolk pine into a larger pot. Most of my plants have grown over the winter so am in the process of repotting them. I have never had much of a green thumb. But never had much time to care for them either. So we shall see? Ha!

Then we all watched this weird movie. It was called Into the Woods. We chose it because it had Meryl Streep in it. It was probably one of the strangest movies I've watched in a while. Ha Ha! I guess it's a comedy musical epic? Blue I said it was based off of nursery rhymes when I meant fairy tales. I was really tired and in a rush last night!

Charley good luck today at the counselor. Thinking about you.

Butter where are you now? Same place?

Allfor sorry about my box the other night! So funny how you tried to explain St. Patricks Day to your son. Lots of folklore thats near impossible to explain...at least logically. Your son seems like the type that if it doesn't make sense he's going to ask questions until it does! Ha!

Blue glad you had a nice weekend. Totally embarrassed by my message last night. I must have been too tired, kept misspelling words...hitting the wrong letter on the tablet. Even wrote the wrong words...then couldn't proofread! Help!!!!

TOD I read about your mom on AP. So happy the Docs figured out what was wrong right away...and could fix it with no complications.

Hope everyone has a wonderful Monday!

PinkCloudsCharley

Hi all

I owe some pm's. it's been an exhausting weekend, so please have patience with me

Butter, how are you doing? (((Hugs.)))

Blue, glad you had a nice weekend with Mr Blue and family.

Clean, sounds like you had a nice weekend too. Day 65!!! Woohoo!! You are awesome, my friend!

Allfor, your son sounds adorable. I missed where you explained St Patricks Day to him but I can imagine how it went, lol, with my own 2 year old it's a circular explanation that never concludes!

Tod, hows your mom doing?

So, mapping yesterday and counseling this morning. Whew! After a huge fight Friday and the recovery from it on Sat, it was an exhausting weekend. BUT we made a lot of headway!

I was very brave, and with mapping I set the titles of what we were working on. We had four major headings, we wanted to focus on why we fight first, so it was Reasons we fight, Key words/Triggers/Things that irritate and escalate fights, What I can work on and What I'm afraid of - done from our own perspectives so he would write what he could work on and I would write my own, etc.

We each worked on those headings separately and came together to share and discuss yesterday.

I was brave, and said how scared I get during a fight, how his words cause me to retreat inside of myself and become insecure and worthless, and how his drinking has affected me. I also realized that when he acts the way he does during a fight, it's the same way he acted when he was drunk so I treat him like he is drinking, which makes him even angrier.

He acknowledged everything. Not only that, he brought it up as a topic today. I was stunned. he told the counselor that he is emotionally immature - H is, not the counselor, lol - and that he has a lot of growing to do. H told the counselor he gets angry because he sees me as an intelligent, emotionally capable, beautiful woman who is lowering herself by being with him, and he wants to be better but doesn't know how to get there. And then I don't open up with him and skirt around an issue because I want to protect his feelings or avoid him getting upset and he feels frustrated that I have to do that.

So we came up with a key word that either of us can use during a conversation, and the person who uses this word also has to come up with a time limit for when we will come back and discuss with cooler heads. Since presumably the person asks for this time is the one with escalated emotions, they should be able to judge approximately how long until they feel they can continue the conversation.

We also talked about his drinking. He told me that in no way was I responsible for his drinking, that he is done drinking and nothing I can say or do will result in him drinking. IF he does drink that is on him, NOT ME. That was wonderful to hear. Our counselor said that for some, there is a time when they are able to have *A* drink and not relapse, but H isn't there yet. he might be one day, but that is not my control either. H says I need to trust him until he gives me a reason not to, and the counselor agreed, and that is what I am going to try to do. So I will believe and trust H will not drink, and until he shows me I am wrong to do so, I will do my best to give him the benefit of my doubts.

our counselor is good, and doesn't mince words. And H responds very well to his questions and comments. The counselor was able to speak well for me without upsetting H or seeming like any of it was things I was worried about.

Butter, you asked why I am still with him. It's a hard question, and one I think about a lot. I guess yesterday and today were the best reasons why I still am. It's moments like that where he gets it, he knows he needs to work on things, he knows he has a lot of work to do and he is trying. And I know that he is still in there, and when the real him comes out I feel hopeful, and that is the person he used to be. It got all messed up with the drinking. And I love him. I'm not sure if that makes sense.

BlueChair

Charley, sounds like you both dug deep and did some hard emotional work. I sense a lot of honesty too. Im so proud of you for being strong, not backing down and for sharing your feelings. It looks like the counselor is helping to make sure both peoples feelings are expressed. I sooo wish you guys could see him more often. Cant he duplicate himself and double his available hours?

When you two argue, I kinda see the things Mr Charley was sharing today. Even though he directs his anger at you, tries to tear you down. Its not really about you at all. Ive felt its about his own feelings of self. Not that it makes it any easier in the moment.

I hope these key words, and time outs will help. Im praying for you both.

And now he has to leave for his work. I think it may be time to whip up a nice batch of brownies again!

cleaninLI

Glad you were able to work on things charley and thanks for the update! That's good news.

Thanks for the congrats! I appreciate it!

Blue you seem quiet....are you ok?

BlueChair

Aww Clean Im happy you had a fun weekend. Happy Day 65! Your over two months now !
No more smokey sticks! Haha maybe I should clarify cigarettes, or people reading might think you were big on cigars or a pipe maybe? Hahaha oh this is a funny image!

I didnt pay any attention to your spelling errors yesterday. The spell check on my tablet is messed up. Either I misspell words or it will replace them with the wrong word, so I gave up.

Im so happy your session was productive Charley, and you worked together, collaborated!

Where is Tod?

Mr Blue left for work out of town this morning. I dont know if he will be back before the weekend. We're coming up on Easter after this and I know he will be home before that.

Im going to sing in the Easter choir, but neither of us will be in the play. They asked him a while back but he said he wouldnt be able to rehearse because of being out of town. We did however invite all the parents to come to our church on Easter. My mom invited his family to come over for Easter dinner. I told her I would help cook, and if she wants we can have it at our house. His parents accepted the invite! And now Im gonna see if I can get his grandparents to drive down too.

Its strange how house feels automatically different when someone is not there.

I have to tell you guys, Tod has been helping me figure out what some of the old stuff is in husbunnys toolbox. I started looking around in the drawers and it was kinda fun. He doesnt even know what some of the stuff is. He said it was handed down to him from his dad and grandfathers too. Says its how men do it! Hes told some of his friends how I took apart the lawnmower, and says he was warned to keep me away from power tools. What is this supposed to mean exactly?

BlueChair

Clean, I guess Im kinda down because Mr Blue is out of town. He was so busy this week even when he was home, and now hes gone again.


Charley,

I have to add this too. I think its a good sign he tells you he is done drinking, and it looks to me like he realizes he was drinking to deal with things, and it was unhealthy way to cope. So it accounts for his saying he feels less mature? But he can learn. And if he does stumble it wont be your fault! And it also doesnt have to be more than a blip in his process of change, not as long as he learns from it. His thoughts remind me a lot of the Rational Recovery approach, and it reminds me of husbunny too.

Tiredofdrugs

Hi everyone!

Quick hello! I have malware on my computer! Jethro will get it cleaned up when he gets home from the hospital! SD had her appendix removed this morning! I've gotten this malware before and Jethro knows how to clean it up!

TTYL

TOD

PinkCloudsCharley

Thanks, it was so hard to be in that session this morning! I actually had to excuse myself for a "bathroom break" so I could compose myself. Such hard and scary things to talk about! But, I am happy H will not drink and it does sound a lot like Rational Recovery, which is great, I understand and really like that route.

It's going to be REALLY hard for me to step back in an argument and realize it's not about me, especially if he gets angry and comes at me verbally like he does. I need to remember he's like a toddler in this emotionally, and he needs to grow. So if I equate his temper tantrums to that of DS's, then I should be ok to not take them so personally. That's going to be really tough but I can do it

We're actually looking at decreasing our time with the counselor now. LOL! He's gone for the month of April and he says we might be at the point where we see him together only once a month. We will see him individually and together when he first returns in May, but depending how April goes when he's on holidays, and how we can keep this communication dialogue open and slowly working on the mapping, we might be able to decrease. He has more faith in us than I do LOL!

Blue, sorry that Mr Blue is on his way for work again You've had a busy month, and not a whole lot of time together. I hope this last week and a half past quickly for both of you, and then you'll have a nice Easter break.
LOL at the power tools!! Funny!
I know what you mean about the house feeling different. It feels different every time H is gone, although I must admit, sometimes it's happier But there is a different feel, that's for sure. Being alone in bed is something I'm not used to at all, even tho H is gone so much.

Clean, how are you today?

Tod, yikes, how is your SD doing? Was it an emergency?
Malware is so annoying. hope Jethro fixes your computer soon before there's much damage done!

Butter and Allfor, hope you are both doing well.

PinkCloudsCharley

We have a snowfall advisory. Damnit. I am so finished with winter!!

FindingMe2

Charley, I am surprised to hear any counselor say that an alcoholic can have just one drink. It was that very thinking by my STBXAH that brought about a full relapse within a couple of months. At first, he was able to have one here, one there but eventually it was out of control again.

Like you, I did everything in my power to fix and save my husband. It was exhausting. There were many times, I felt worthless after a fight with him. His words cut deep. But he could also be loving during the good days so I stayed.

Towards the end, I worked with my own therapist who asked me to keep the focus strictly on me during our sessions. It took nearly 5 months before I could do that. It took even longer for me to realize that his words didn't define who I was.

Even before he relapsed, I realized I could no longer partner with someone so emotionally immature. The verbal and emotional abuse still existed at times. After he relapsed, I realized I wasted so much time on him and his problems that could have been used having fun with friends and family.

Threats of divorce is nothing short of emotional abuse. I fear that as you are trying to fix him, your own self worth is taking a beating. At some point, I had to ask why I continued to stay on the emotional roller coaster. That is where I found my answers. It was hard and it was exhausting but it continues to be worth it.

Untreated Alcoholism and the ism's associated it will eat at the souls of everyone around them.

After years of walking on eggshells, I was so emotionally beat down and didn't even know it. I would hate to see that happen to any one else. My wounds are healing but I wish I had never allowed anyone to ever wound me like that. Life can be hard enough without the person that vowed to love, honor, and cherish me exploit my love for him.

I end this with two questions, if your husband does relapse or continues with his current behavior (both good and bad) - what happens to you emotionally? What happens to all the energy you have put into him?

You are in my thoughts and prayers.

BlueChair

When you two are in the sessions I think the Dr sees you work well together even though its very painful at times. But its the time in between where it goes off the rails, and he only gets a recap of this part. If H can use his individual sessions and make progress on all the stuff he is responsible for (can call it the growth and maturing of Mr Charley? Ha! ) then those loops should begin to get better, and less directed toward you. I think this is what you have to watch for. Your sessions can help you with your thoughts, feelings, emotions. I really hope the mapping helps lessen the tension and helps educate both of you too.

I was fearing a much more negative post from you after the session!

Sometimes I see those toddlers throwing fits in the store. They scream loud, tell their moms to leave them alone, and how they hate them. I think it must be heartbreaking when your little kid says stuff like that even though you know they dont mean it, or even know what the word hate means. I always feel bad when they head out the door still screaming but sitting in the little seat in the shopping cart. They wave their arms around, tears streaming. I think Id give in and let them have the toy, or eat whatever they want, but Im guessing this would be bad parenting.

Im sorry your getting snow. Butter may be getting snow too! How funny to leave a beach and go home to big coat and hat. Said with love Butter!

PinkCloudsCharley

Findingme, I'm responding on my phone and it has a tendency to jump around so please excuse any typos

I appreciate and thank you for your post, and moreso for sharing your story. It also reminds me there are more people reading this than I think and perhaps don't know my whole story.

This was H's relapse. The past year and a half, until I left at Christmas and basically made him choose between us and alcohol, it was a year and a half relapse. He quit drinking around May of 2013, and used only 12 step programs for help. I did too. We both learned so very negative thought patterns that brought us to this point. He started drinking again in July 2013 and did so until Dec 2014.

In Dec, i removed our children from our home and went no contact with him for the night. He was panicked, he was very upset, and he saw i was serious. When he came homefrom detox, we both agreed that our home would be a zero tolerance for alcohol zone. H also knows I can't go back to that place again.

We started seeing this counsellor on a regular basis in Nov. During our private sessions, he has been counseling me on how to leave if I need to. Although he is strictly non-12 step, he used some of those handy catch phrases to get thru to me like Nothing changes if nothing changes, and Insanity is doing the same thing over and expecting different results. He's also been counseling H in their private sessions on the fact that I could leave again if things don't improve.

As he is non-12 step, he doesn't believe that every person with an alcohol problem can never drink again. Yeah that threw me too. But he says the literature and his personal practice experience of over 30 years tells him there is a very small percentage who are able to handle one drink every now and then. It flies completely in the face of everything I had learned in my 12 step groups and from my 12 step counsellor. But, i am willing to concede that perhaps there is a possibility those people exist. And then I guess the question is, were they true alcoholics or alcohol abusers? I guess there is a big difference, something I didn't know anything about.

As for fixing him, i will fully admit to that lol. You should have seen me before I started CRAFT. I went between trying to fix him and completely detaching to the point of icy coldness. I'm still very good at it lol. At our session today, our counselor and H made it clear i have nothing to do with the drinking, no ifs ands or buts. What I do have control with is our relationship. I need to stop dancing around when H is starting down the wrong road and use our key word, because H doesn't have the emotional wherewithal to do it himself. But i am definitely not to put up with any more emotional abuse.

The counsellor has also asked us to be very self-evaulative with each other. When the key word is used and we reconvene, we are both to self-evaluate where our emotions were headed and what we could do differently. For me, that will probably mean I end up saying something like "I should have been more direct and not tried to protect your feelings so much" for him it will probably mean something like"I behaved very immaturely and am not proud of that"

At this point, he recognizes his own falterings and is trying to work on them. As long as he does that, I will continue to work on it too. He knows that he's crossed a few lines and he knows I'm working on being stronger, and he supports that.

I've spent a lot of hours asking my Higher Power for direction and guidance and have received the overwhelming feeling I need to work with him right now.

I know this has become more of a dissertation in defence of my husband lol, but it's not intended to read that way. I've come a long ways from where I was, and I'm not as afraid of the what ifs anymore.

Tiredofdrugs

Still working on getting my computer fixed. It only screws up when I'm looking at SR though. CRAZY It happened once before and jethro fixed it. Now he can't remember what he did to fix it. ARGH

It will be a short evening for me anyway. We get our taxes done tomorrow. I've spent the entire day cleaning. Got a lot done. A little ticked at jethro for sitting around doing pretty much nothing while I ran circles around him. He ate a big meal at 5:00 PM and then got bittchy with me at 9:00 PM because I didn't fix supper. I thought the 5:00 PM meal WAS supper? No it wasn't. Well damn. So I made hamburgers and French fries. I'm pooped.

I pulled up the cover on the chicken bedroom floor and washed it today. After putting it back down, washing the brown mat and cleaning the mirror? Molly doesn't know what to think and has been standing beside the gate. I give up!

It was a beautiful 73 degrees today. I put the three little silkies out to eat some of the fresh grass that's about ankle high now.

Charley: thanks for posting y'all's story. I didn't know the history of it.

Ok! I'm done typing on this phone at this point!

Oh yeah! SDs appendix was an emergency case

TOD

buttercup89

Blue can you pick me up at LAX? i decided to move in with you. If you say no i will throw a temper tantrum

allforcnm

Are you trying to avoid the Red Eye Butter? I take it your heading home to the East Coast... how was your vacation? You must have some good stories.. share and let us live vicariously.. I never get to go anywhere anymore.. Walmart is my big adventure, its like a whole other world there. LOL

How did you become infected TOD? Your poor SD; hope she is ok. Good it was caught in time, was she having very bad pain, how was it diagnosed?

What a tough session Charley. How do you feel about all of it? I bet the doctor has some good stories to tell about couples he has counseled.. of course that would be inappropriate to share with you, but still Im sure he makes comparisons and has a feel for when he see's people putting in effort. Only time is really going to tell I think because there is a lot of complexity involved. Your still going on your own however and this will help prepare you for whatever comes. If only we each had a crystal ball... we just have to do what feels right and stop and revaluate from time to time.

Sorry Blue I didn't know your husband was going out of town again so soon. Maybe hes afraid you will master his power tools while hes gone? Maybe you could do some remodeling if you get bored?

Cleanin.. I think I lost the PM from the other day. Your popular and your box fills up.. you don't have to apologize.. LOL There is nothing like a whole box of donuts.. I like the jelly ones, or the ones filled with chocolate crème.. now Im hungry for a bedtime snack. Congratulations on 65 days. Giving up cigarettes has increased your appetite? I think Id still make the trade off..

I had to get caught up reading.. such drama on the other thread.. Blue, you don't need to defend your comments BTW.. I certainly wouldn't bother..

Charley, I asked this question on TOD'S animal/people thread the other day.. how did you handle Easter with your kids and the Easter bunny? I went to walmart and almost had a panic attack. My son was with me, and there were rows of Easter baskets filled up and tied with a bow.. I've been telling my son about the Easter bunny bringing him a basket.. and here are all these baskets at the store.. I had a couple suggestions and liked both.. people buy baskets and give them to each other like they do for birthdays and Christmas, and the Easter Bunny shops for baskets too, but you never know which one you might get. Last year I wasn't aware I guess, but this year he is much more inquisitive and wants answers to things. I have to be on my toes all the time.

cleaninLI

Good morning everyone!
Well I decided to stay home and be lazy and send my daughter (25) off on her own to walk my youngest daughter (10) up 180 steps to the top of the lighthouse. It's freezing outside and I'm sure even colder on the Beach. Sitting here in my nice cozy kitchen of 70ً+ degrees, I'm convincing myself I made the right decision. Can't help but feel a pang of guilt though. Since I am the mother and should be wanting to go and walk on a freezing Beach and up to the tippy top of a lighthouse with 50 or 60 excited 4th graders?

I hear ya Charley I'm tired of winter too! Bring on the summer! Hope you did t get too much snow! That First day of spring snow we had melted already. Thank God! TOD it looks like you've had much warmer temps to have grown some fresh grass. We have nothing growing here yet. It still looks like winter here....but idk if any of you can sense spring in the air. But I do! It's very subtle....but noticed it this weekend. Oh TOD I hope Jethro remembers how he did away with that virus! That's weird that it only effects SR? I've never heard of that one but then I'm not up on all that. I have had a few and suspect that is what happened to my other iPad?

Blue I can understand how you feel about your husband being gone. Especially after he just got back home. I guess this means he's doing well with his job and they are trusting him with more work? That's a good thing! You are reminding me of when my hubs and I were newly married.......back when I cared if he was home or not! Ha! It was kind of lonely whenever he needed to be away at field. I think it's great that you go on and do things anyway and have a wonderful Easter planned at your Mom's house. I hope his grandparents can make it! Is this a first for getting both sides all together at your mom's? Looks like Mama Blue is a lot like you?

Allfor I think you gave some good advice to Blue. Our Blue has worked hard to get where she is today. She took up the challenge and has been successful! She has so much knowledge and insight to offer and has given it freely. Just like you too Alfor! Now it looks like Charley is learning and growing too. Not easy I know!

Lots more I could say on this topic but for now thats enough. Better get this posted and get some things done around here!

Welcome back to the east coast Butter!

BlueChair

Good Morning Ladies,

Aww why did the schedule an outdoor trip when its so early in the year? Picture 50 kids all bundled up climbing steps, and making lots of noise! Then get comfy on your couch. Ha! Im sure your older daughter didnt mind going, shes very involved with her siblings.

I missed Mr Blue last night, but I talked to him and we're using this cool app where we share just between us. We can even send thumb kisses. I know silly but distance makes the heart grow fonder! I was looking and saw Ashton Kutchers company is one of the investors in the app.

Have to go out of the office for a while today for work. BBL

Butter! Are you home now, or still at LAX? You can always come back after semester is over!

PinkCloudsCharley

Clean, I totally agree with sending your 25 year old out with your 10 year old on their field trip! Sometimes it's really fun to take someone other than Mom along on a field trip! Not that it wouldn't be nice to have Mom along, but sometimes the cooler older sis makes a younger sib instantly cool herself Plus it has the added bonus of giving you some time off!

We're in the middle of snow hell. I hate it. We had some nice warming days where the temps were above freezing, but now it's snowing and blowing again and I just want to cry I need to find a job in Hawaii.

Blue, it's great you were able to chat with Mr Blue. I miss talking with Mr Charley, but it's better when we don't chat at night when he's gone. He gets very lonely and depressed then, and if I don't want to rescue him from his feelings, I need to step back.
And Allfor is right. You did a great job departing some of your knowledge and wisdom on the other thread last night, there is no reason you should have to defend yourself. I actually am in awe of how much insight everyone here has. Such great fonts of knowledge! I am so happy to have found this place!

Butter, lol, I laughed at your temper tantrum comment! Have a safe flight back.

Allfor, I haven't had to have the Easter Bunny discussion with DS yet. He's quite oblivious to all the baskets in the stores, and doesn't have any remembrance of Easter last year. I remember though with DD, I would tell her that people would buy them as gifts, or sometimes that adults who didn't believe in the Easter Bunny didn't get anything from him, so they had to buy their own and isn't that sad. It was a bigger deal with Santa, and there were friends of hers whose parents didn't want their children to believe, so that was much harder. I always tried to keep it positive and would say that Santa comes to those who believe so you'd better not question LOL! Worked until she was about 10.
Next year with DS will be harder I suspect, since he'll remember this Easter.

Tod, how is your SD doing? Appendix can be done laproscopically now so is that how hers was done?

I'm not feeling as confident as I was yesterday. This is going to require me to be very strong and to stop hiding behind my walls, and also it's going to mean I need to overlook some of H's reactions if he is going to be held accountable for them and allow the chips to fall where they do sometimes instead of trying to smooth over his feelings. This is going to be hard work. He has a lot of growing to do and it seems daunting today.

That being said, H has posted on Facebook four times now, a link to an article on male depression. I guess, after how our session went yesterday and what we agreed upon, I should just ask him straight out if there is something wrong, and take whatever he says as his answer and move on, right?

PinkCloudsCharley

This is intriguing ... taken from The Irrationality of Alcoholics Anonymous - The Atlantic

Whereas AA teaches that alcoholism is a progressive disease that follows an inevitable trajectory, data from a federally funded survey called the National Epidemiological Survey on Alcohol and Related Conditions show that nearly one-fifth of those who have had alcohol dependence go on to drink at low-risk levels with no symptoms of abuse

Not linking to start a debate on 12-step, but linking to ask about the idea that someone who abuses alcohol can eventually drink responsibly. I'm trying to do some research into what our counselor said yesterday about the literature supporting the idea that some can drink later.

cleaninLI

Hi again! Interesting charley! I owe some Pms too. But am unable to write them right now.

That's too bad about the snow you've been having!

Hope everyone is ok today!