HitRockBottom70

Freshstart,
Yes, we are powerless over alcohol (even in AVRT) if we pick up that first drink. We have total control whether we drink or not. We have total control whether or not we feed the beast or whether we work a program and the steps. I do see some similarities. One big difference is AVRT looks very closely at language and the one true meaning of what is written. AA seems to leave more room for interpretation.

I have been sober for over 10 months now with the help of AVRT. I just started going to AA meetings because I am tired of doing this on my own. The first was awesome, a meditation meeting. I felt like I belonged and that my idea of what a higher power was could be respected. The second was completely different, even ending with "The Lords Prayer".

Bigsombrero, I felt like I belonged in the first group, but yes, the second felt very "off" and if that had been the first I don't think I would ever be going back. I will be going to some different meetings and finding ones where I feel a kinship and don't get that cult vibe. I also am looking for a place to meet people to live life sober and have a active life with. Life is for living, not a meeting every spare minute. I hope I find a group and/or a sponsor that fills this need.

I also could use any advice like bigsombrero. Feeling very lost with this new AA thing.

GerandTwine

My understanding -
AA=individually powerless over alcohol even before the first drink - that's why recovery can't be done alone.
AVRT=not powerless ever, just risky after first drink due to the mind altering of alcohol that causes a change in priorities.

In that case I would think AA should welcome the Big Plan (I will never drink again!), although it might result in making the steps somewhat obsolete as a program for staying quit.

HitRockBottom70

GT, I guess I'll find out how welcoming they are of my big plan. As far as the steps, I am hoping they will help me to live a happier life. The BP has kept me sober, but there needs to be further work to make my life better. Maybe AA is going to be helpful. I am open to the possibilities at this point.

Boleo

AA is based on 12 steps, not 1 giant step like "I will never drink again". First off, most of the people I know in AA tried stopping with one giant step. Usually it is "Don't drink no matter what" or something like that. I myself tried dozens psychological tricks & tips to reinforce my decision to stop drinking. I found not-drinking One-Arduous-Day-At-A-Time drove me so nuts that drinking myself to death started looking like a good idea to me.

12 step recovery is based on the premise that drinking is but a symptom of a bigger malady. Only the first step involves the alcohol of alcohol-ISM, the remaining steps treat the ISM of alcohol-ISM.

GerandTwine

What you call "1 giant step" has worked for many millions of people over the centuries, and in AVRT it is called "the Big Plan". Hmm. I like your term "1 giant step." How's this? "One giant step for man, one small step for mankind". But then, as all those small giant steps add up over history, they have a real cumulative effect in bettering society.

The time of the fastest rate of "1 giant step" taking by addicts in the U.S. was 1841-1843: the Washingtonians. The time of the fastest rate of "1 giant step" taking by anyone in the U.S. was 1830-1836 in the birth of the total abstinence temperance movement.

Prohibition, on the other hand, was "One small concession for man, One Giant experiment for mankind". And, of course, as we know, it failed miserably.

For the ten years I was in AA, "One-Arduous-Day-At-A-Time" was the primary focus of attention. And the idea that I could use AA to recover alone without contact with any other recovering people? Blasphemy!

And this eleven step "ISM" part was the never-ending-cycle-of-topics that gave the old-timers something to pontificate upon.

awuh1

GT, When I last looked this forum was called the secular 12 step forum not the secular 1step forum.

Perhaps that’s because there are many who find utility in aspects of a 12 step approach, and in doing so with other people. Contrary to the implication in your post, the Washingtonians did not “recover alone without contact with any other recovering people”. According to Wikipedia “The idea was that by relying on each other, sharing their alcoholic experiences and creating an atmosphere of conviviality, they could keep each other sober.”

shockozulu

Please please. This is a safe haven for those of us working the 12 Steps.


Step 1 is not enough for me. I need the other steps to get my life back in order. Yes, working with new comers is an important part of that. Sponsoring, being there to listen, and so on. I do not pontificate nor will I ever. I am constantly learning more myself.

One of the reasons I need a HP is that I need to look outside myself. Rely on myself and I stay as self centered as when I was using. I am clean but self-centered clean. That alone doesn't do me much good as long as my universe still surrounds around me. By cleaning my side of the street, taking daily inventory, spending time each day in awareness with my surroundings while becoming one with them (prayer and meditation) I became a changed person who grew up from that self-centered little girl who only cared where her next drug was coming from.

FreedomSought

Hey Big Sombrero thanks for the thread. I feel the same way and I have brought it up before with sponsors or people after meetings. And I get "Well god bless" or "Thats between you and God" or "This works for ME" in response.

To me that seems close minded. Like come on, can you even try to walk in a newcomers shoes? And stepping a little more distant from program, I've realized that some people NEED that cult mentality and close mindedness to remain sober. I wonder if they have doubt or want something more for themselves like hobbies etc.

Simple people have an easy time staying sober. I know for me when I wake up at 3am think of my big student loan debt, there's a lot of doubt of the program. "How can I do my responsibility if I renounce material things?" But when I replace that thought with thinking about the beauty of the cosmos, at least I can get back to sleep in the now... Anyway love the thread great way to rant...
Chip

Vicki31

Hi,

I have just started AA (2 meetings) and I am still very unsure about it too. I also have just got a copy of Rational Recovery (from the internet) I'm only half way through but it makes a lot of sense to me.

Even though in RR it says you don't need to go to AA at this early stage in my sober life (18 days today) I didn't want to dismiss anything to early.

I am thinking of trying a couple of different meetings in my area before I make a decision one way or the other.

They asked me to read something out the second time I went and I'm not very comfortable with speaking in front of people, especially people I don't know, I did it but I am going to say to the chairman (I think thats his role, not sure what to call him) that I am not ready at present to speak to the room at large.

I think I would advise to not dismiss anything to soon, but also to consider all options there is something for everyone. SR is totally wonderful, its always there anytime day or night and there is just so much information and support to be found from all different viewpoints.

Hope this helps

Best of luck

Drunkmidget

IMHO: OP ... I think location and which meeting your at can make a huge difference. I have found even the region of the country dramatically changes the feel of meetings. I first attended 2 AA meetings several years ago in Georgia ... and never went back ... the members of those groups were very very very aggressive ... and extremely religous ... exceeding the limitations of what I understand to be AA guidelines. Had I given it a chance ... I might have gone to more. But several members began trying to recruit for their church right after the 1st meeting.

I have recently moved to the NE part of the country ... and attended 10 meetings now. Determined to give it another chance ... and WOW what a difference. For me at least ... one person said ... go to many many different meetings and find one that fits. Here I have found that to be true. Might want to try a few others around your town ... maybe even consider traveling a little farther outside of it. Just my 2 cents ... either way hope it all works out for you.

Threshold

It wasn't the steps that led me to leave AA, it was my reaction to the words of other people.

After several months I became aware that I am not AA material.

I am sad about this because I really hoped to find support and fellowship, but sometimes it just doesn't happen. I don't have access to any other AA meetings or groups right now.

I have no plan to ditch the steps, they have been a huge part of my recovery.

Zencat

Variety in AA is the key.

Coming from my practice of CBT, situations as you described above can be a great opportunity to practice assertiveness (not to be confused with aggressiveness) and establishing boundaries with other people.

miamifella

I am surprised that so many people have been "pushy". I was in 12-step recovery and found that no one would speak to new people. After 7 years, I still never was in the home of anyone from the program. But from SR, I have learned that the program varies from place to place.

Eventually, I left because I needed more one-on-one help. Meetings were fine, but sometimes you do want to just talk to one person. Also, I never understood why it would be helpful to talk about one's successes but never speak about the problems. I needed to get help with my problems in recovery a lot more than I needed cheering on for my successes.

Like you, though, I wish there was a place to meet people face to face to talk about recovery. The other organizations do not have many meetings and I often thought of just starting my own group---one where there are no rules about what can and cannot be discussed with group members!

Boleo

I have started a few of my own groups and even tried the "No Rules" route. What you end up with are people who only want to talk about themselves, how bad they drank or how bad one trivial little thing is in their life right now (like their dog or cat).

Without some guidelines as to what topics will and will not be discussed, at least one member will take the whole meeting hostage and use it as one long personal open talk.

miamifella

Boleo-- You are probably right.

I guess I just think that it should be okay to admit you are struggling and ask for help. I found it frustrating that one could not ask for help or advise in 12-step recovery. I know that you can say you are having trouble staying clean in the "burning desires" part of the meeting, but that is not enough.

But then, maybe this is just resentment--I got into trouble a lot for admitting that I was struggling in shares and one-on-one. Maybe I just want to prove that I was right, but I honestly think a program where one can admit fear and weakness would be as good (or better) than one where only strength and hope are permissible.

I know AA recommends praying during the rough times, but I think there is nothing like talking with another person when you think you won't make it. That is what was missing for me in AA.

Mentium

Thanks for this thread! I too am an atheist and I got back from an AA meeting an hour ago which was focused on Step 6 (god taking away all our 'defects of character'...). I found myself seething throughout most of the meeting because it is all so muddled, despite finding most over the last six weeks really very helpful.

I am beginning to 'translate' the Steps into a notion of personal development that will be helpful now that I am sober, so that helps - as did an old timer at the end of the meeting I chatted to who put it into very simple everyday terms too.

..and as I said - this thread did too!

paulmh

Sounds like you're in the same part of the world as me - I'm based in Wigan, I don't do so many meetings these days, but I tend to go around greater Manchester and Liverpool areas.

What I'm going to say is a hard premise to accept, but I offer it as respectfully as I can - my problem, like yours, was that I was prone to "seething" about things outside of my control, and I tended to try and make the processes of AA "fit" with my own outlook and opinions. In fact AA worked best when I learned to humbly accept that my own thinking is flawed, and learned to undertake actions and directions which didn't necessarily "fit" with my "beliefs". I remain an atheist, but I very much have "higher powers" in my life now - love, organic life itself, the physical universe. In fact, I get a bit disappointed in myself when I am lazy enough to define these higher powers, being happiest I suppose when I can just be humble in the face of "all I do not know".

Doing things differently required me to act contrary to my precious opinions. Best thing that ever happened to me was to let go of the fear of doing things in ways that I wasn't sure I "agreed" with. And AA meetings are not places for me to go and expect to only hear things I agree with. They're places I go to learn, and to offer my experience to others, if they can find any use in it.

All the best.

Pete55

If one dose not like the way a meeting is run, start your own meeting venue and list it accordingly on the AA official meetings list, if you are serious about your sobriety and that of other suffering alcoholics.

As the saying goes,
"You only need 2 alcoholics, a resentment, and a coffee pot with coffee in it to start a meeting" !

Philip897

Hi bigsombrero,

Different people use AA in differnet ways. No-one can tell you that you have to even look at the steps if you don't want to.

Funnily enough I've heard of meetings in the South of France, where it's the opposite and you are discouraged from sharing/talking about the Big Book. Still no-one can tell that you can't look at the steps if you want to.

Just using AA as a support network is fine, just go to lots of different meetings until you find some like minded people.

For myself, I've found that at a minimum, I need meetings, sponsor and contact with fellowship people, to avoid getting back into the thinking it might be OK to have a drink again.

soberhal9

My experience with AA, is that there are atheists, christians, buddhists, and jews. The whole thing that ties us together is a spiritual solution that works. II wish you the best.