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How could I cope with much worse things in the past, but now they induce the craving for a drink??
Alcohol didn't start off as a problem for me. It was a hammer that I occasionally used when the situation seemed to be a nail. Over time, everything became a nail.
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Originally Posted by silentrun 
It didn't start with me until I was in my 30s as well. Who is to say why and the only how that mattered to me is "how the heck am I gonna get out of this situation."
Yes, agreed the why and the how don't matter, just the escape route
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Originally Posted by nez
A hammer sees everything as a nail.
Alcohol didn't start off as a problem for me. It was a hammer that I occasionally used when the situation seemed to be a nail. Over time, everything became a nail.
Alcohol didn't start off as a problem for me. It was a hammer that I occasionally used when the situation seemed to be a nail. Over time, everything became a nail.
I don't know what's wrong with me atm. I just feel like saying to people ..can you PLEASE not come to me with your problems until I sort myself out. But I feel so selfish saying that. They have helped me in the past.
One day they are giving me a hard time about my drinking (deserved) Then they are heaping their emotional problems on me and I can't separate my emotions from theirs. I feel for them.
On a lighter note. I haven't seen my littlest grandson in a while because of that silly nonsensical course last week. I asked my son if I could pick him up this afternoon instead of him going to after school club. We had an excellent game of Mario. He said to my son "Me and grandma had fun" and we did! He is like a breathe of fresh air to me.
My son and his girlfriend have apparently made up since this morning and he has fixed the tree. He just texted to say Edinburgh xmas market is still on for tomorrow, I don't know if I'm in the mood.
I'm back to being the Grinch and hate all things xmas.
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But, I feel all my coping mechanisms in the past that I worked so hard on, must have been so useless, that I resorted to taking the option of instant oblivion once I found that to be an option
Adding another problem (using alcohol) to the mountain in front of me, just puts the mountaintop at a higher elevation and means the hard work of using my quality coping mechanisms is going to be just much harder. So simple, but like I say it eluded me for years.
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Originally Posted by Jupiter11
This is why try as I might, I cannot convince myself I have an "allergy" to alcohol. Because for 20 years it was just something I did now and again and caused zero problems!
Yes, agreed the why and the how don't matter, just the escape route
Yes, agreed the why and the how don't matter, just the escape route
As an old geezer now it really plays havoc with me insides…
I’m not allergic to KFC - it’s not something worth that level of introspection and intellectualisation - it’s just something I shouldn’t and don’t eat anymore.
D
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Originally Posted by Jupiter11
This is why try as I might, I cannot convince myself I have an "allergy" to alcohol. Because for 20 years it was just something I did now and again and caused zero problems!
Yes, agreed the why and the how don't matter, just the escape route
Yes, agreed the why and the how don't matter, just the escape route
Is that an allergy, sensitivity, or something else? Don’t know, but I do know I take real risks with blackout, etc. when I drink today as compared to when I was younger. I also don’t have the tolerance I did for amounts and strength, and I don’t get much of a buzz when I drink—when I was younger, euphoric relaxed state lasted a long time. Not now. It is fleeting and more like dulled oblivion instead of “fun””.
I
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This drug, has literally destroyed my kids lives
No matter how I rationalised it to my self I destroyed their childhood
If you are a young mother reading this, Make no mistake, you are destroying your kids childhood, No matter how much you keep the house clean, keep your children clean and fed, like me, you are destroying their mental health.
You are NOT a functional human being, you may think you are but you are not
And your kids will pay the piper
No matter how I rationalised it to my self I destroyed their childhood
If you are a young mother reading this, Make no mistake, you are destroying your kids childhood, No matter how much you keep the house clean, keep your children clean and fed, like me, you are destroying their mental health.
You are NOT a functional human being, you may think you are but you are not
And your kids will pay the piper
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Originally Posted by Jupiter11
I have noticed, I don't know if anyone else has reading this thread, that I trot along quite happily then just have mega solar meltdowns. And that is me not drinking!!
I have no idea what that is all about.
How could I cope with much worse things in the past, but now they induce the craving for a drink??
I have no idea what that is all about.
How could I cope with much worse things in the past, but now they induce the craving for a drink??
My theory in a nutshell is that your cauldron frequently reaches it's capacity. Let me hasten to say that I don't think you're a witch - not at all! I have my own cauldron - it's where I unthinkingly toss the everyday indignities, indignation, hurt feelings, outrage, despair, etc. When I say unthinkingly, I mean that I literally don't think I'm holding onto anything. I think I'm just blowing it off, toughing it out, moving along. Not so - my brain relegates it to the pot. It's a big cauldron, so it holds a lot of bubbling lava without me needing to pay any mind to it. But then what happens, out of the clear blue sky (it seems) is that one more thing goes in the pot and BOOM it boils over.
I didn't used to know about the cauldron. It took me a couple of 'good' relapses to understand that the 'something" that happened (which I didn't even know it was) was just the exact ingredient needed to make the stew lethal. The relapses were 'good' because something in my brain clicked that never had before, and it had to do with all of the things I was just toughing through. This is, in part, why I suggested that you write down every time you are feeling anxious, angry or otherwise edgy. If you work at it hard enough, you'll start seeing connections. At least I did. Because I learned that I had to dissect and identify those feelings to understand where they were coming from. Not in a surface, "That guy is just a jerk" way, but in a much more exploratory way. Why do I care so much that guy is a jerk? What is it about him or his mannerisms or whatever stirs the pot for me? Who does that feeling remind me of?
Also, it took many years for me to get to the crest of the alcoholic roller coaster. But once I was there, it was a very steep downslope. I think that's true for a lot of us. Those people who ascribe to the "alcoholism is an allergy" notion found that works for them. And that's ok for them, but if it doesn't suffice for you, that's ok too. As long as you don't feel the need to argue about it. There are also plenty of people in my AA circles that subscribe to the idea that they were literally born alcoholic. I don't think that - I think that the circumstances and conditions of my life and the way I did or didn't deal with all of that facilitated my addiction to alcohol. I used to feel the need to argue about that - to make other people see the truth. Until I learned that all I really needed was to be true to myself.
When I really really stopped drinking, I knew I had to find a way to keep the cauldron from boiling over or I was bound to drink again. Not that I'm so powerless that I can't control my own arm, but because I had no way to control my feelings aside from doing something to alter my mind so that I 'didn't care.' The freaky thing is that part was not really known to me - like I said earlier. It was quite the comeuppance to realize my brain was sneaking around my back like that! (My therapist frequently said, "It (alcohol) does something for you." And I would nod my head sagely, thinking "Sure does, but I don't really know what that is - why it's worth all of this misery.")
I believe the reason you got through all of those life events without being a full-blown drunk is that (a) it took awhile for you to sink far enough over the edge to realize that alcohol was a problem and (b) you were so busy surviving. Perhaps in the reverse order. I, too, didn't become out of control until things were somewhat better in my life. And then I started causing my own problems, though I didn't allow myself to recognize it at the time. I found new things to throw in the cauldron without even realizing that's what I was doing. I was a victim, Jupiter. And man, did that ever hurt - because I didn't understand why I kept landing in the same patterns. I didn't really know any different, not down in my bones - I just continued to give other people power over my emotions, believing that they must be right to be treating me like garbage. Because I, in fact, was garbage - I was just plain a 'wrong' person.' Who knew that would attract all of the wrong people to me? Who knew that my eyes were shrouded with my own learned perceptions that protected me when I was younger? Probably lots of people knew, because they told me so. But I simply could not understand that, smart as I am. "Well, what am I supposed to do then??" Nobody could tell me. Well, they tried, but I couldn't understand what they were saying. It's so weird, living that life. And horrible, too.
To really 'do' recovery, I had to get selfish. I pretty much holed myself up here in my home and did not allow any kind of conflict in my space. I didn't go 'home' to see the folks for three years - and even then, I only saw a small handful of them, entirely on my terms. The last two years have been primarily about taking care of me, recognizing when I'm "off" and doing the right things about that, creating a space that's very comfortable for me, and advocating for my own needs. In a sense, I've needed to mother myself because I didn't received the parenting I needed as a child.
You can do that, too. But you probably need help, hun. I know you said you're over all of your past traumas, but I think maybe you got as patched up as you could at the time and now it's time to take that healing further. Would you consider seeing a therapist again?
I know this sucks, Jupiter. And you probably can't see it, but the kind of questioning you are doing is a healthy sign.
Sorry so long - I think I was probably just working some stuff out for myself too.
As they say, take what you need and leave the rest.
xo
O
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Originally Posted by nez
I don't know about you, but for me my quality coping mechanisms can be hard work to use and alcohol is so damn easy and takes no effort on my part! What I needed to get through my thick skull is that alcohol is not a solution, it is a problem. Big difference that I had trouble grasping, but I finally did.
Adding another problem (using alcohol) to the mountain in front of me, just puts the mountaintop at a higher elevation and means the hard work of using my quality coping mechanisms is going to be just much harder. So simple, but like I say it eluded me for years.
Adding another problem (using alcohol) to the mountain in front of me, just puts the mountaintop at a higher elevation and means the hard work of using my quality coping mechanisms is going to be just much harder. So simple, but like I say it eluded me for years.
But Freud has a point with his Pleasure Principal theory after all
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Originally Posted by Obladi
Uh, yeah, I've noticed. Probably because it looks so familiar to me?
My theory in a nutshell is that your cauldron frequently reaches it's capacity. Let me hasten to say that I don't think you're a witch - not at all! I have my own cauldron - it's where I unthinkingly toss the everyday indignities, indignation, hurt feelings, outrage, despair, etc. When I say unthinkingly, I mean that I literally don't think I'm holding onto anything. I think I'm just blowing it off, toughing it out, moving along. Not so - my brain relegates it to the pot. It's a big cauldron, so it holds a lot of bubbling lava without me needing to pay any mind to it. But then what happens, out of the clear blue sky (it seems) is that one more thing goes in the pot and BOOM it boils over.
I didn't used to know about the cauldron. It took me a couple of 'good' relapses to understand that the 'something" that happened (which I didn't even know it was) was just the exact ingredient needed to make the stew lethal. The relapses were 'good' because something in my brain clicked that never had before, and it had to do with all of the things I was just toughing through. This is, in part, why I suggested that you write down every time you are feeling anxious, angry or otherwise edgy. If you work at it hard enough, you'll start seeing connections. At least I did. Because I learned that I had to dissect and identify those feelings to understand where they were coming from. Not in a surface, "That guy is just a jerk" way, but in a much more exploratory way. Why do I care so much that guy is a jerk? What is it about him or his mannerisms or whatever stirs the pot for me? Who does that feeling remind me of?
Also, it took many years for me to get to the crest of the alcoholic roller coaster. But once I was there, it was a very steep downslope. I think that's true for a lot of us. Those people who ascribe to the "alcoholism is an allergy" notion found that works for them. And that's ok for them, but if it doesn't suffice for you, that's ok too. As long as you don't feel the need to argue about it. There are also plenty of people in my AA circles that subscribe to the idea that they were literally born alcoholic. I don't think that - I think that the circumstances and conditions of my life and the way I did or didn't deal with all of that facilitated my addiction to alcohol. I used to feel the need to argue about that - to make other people see the truth. Until I learned that all I really needed was to be true to myself.
When I really really stopped drinking, I knew I had to find a way to keep the cauldron from boiling over or I was bound to drink again. Not that I'm so powerless that I can't control my own arm, but because I had no way to control my feelings aside from doing something to alter my mind so that I 'didn't care.' The freaky thing is that part was not really known to me - like I said earlier. It was quite the comeuppance to realize my brain was sneaking around my back like that! (My therapist frequently said, "It (alcohol) does something for you." And I would nod my head sagely, thinking "Sure does, but I don't really know what that is - why it's worth all of this misery.")
I believe the reason you got through all of those life events without being a full-blown drunk is that (a) it took awhile for you to sink far enough over the edge to realize that alcohol was a problem and (b) you were so busy surviving. Perhaps in the reverse order. I, too, didn't become out of control until things were somewhat better in my life. And then I started causing my own problems, though I didn't allow myself to recognize it at the time. I found new things to throw in the cauldron without even realizing that's what I was doing. I was a victim, Jupiter. And man, did that ever hurt - because I didn't understand why I kept landing in the same patterns. I didn't really know any different, not down in my bones - I just continued to give other people power over my emotions, believing that they must be right to be treating me like garbage. Because I, in fact, was garbage - I was just plain a 'wrong' person.' Who knew that would attract all of the wrong people to me? Who knew that my eyes were shrouded with my own learned perceptions that protected me when I was younger? Probably lots of people knew, because they told me so. But I simply could not understand that, smart as I am. "Well, what am I supposed to do then??" Nobody could tell me. Well, they tried, but I couldn't understand what they were saying. It's so weird, living that life. And horrible, too.
To really 'do' recovery, I had to get selfish. I pretty much holed myself up here in my home and did not allow any kind of conflict in my space. I didn't go 'home' to see the folks for three years - and even then, I only saw a small handful of them, entirely on my terms. The last two years have been primarily about taking care of me, recognizing when I'm "off" and doing the right things about that, creating a space that's very comfortable for me, and advocating for my own needs. In a sense, I've needed to mother myself because I didn't received the parenting I needed as a child.
You can do that, too. But you probably need help, hun. I know you said you're over all of your past traumas, but I think maybe you got as patched up as you could at the time and now it's time to take that healing further. Would you consider seeing a therapist again?
I know this sucks, Jupiter. And you probably can't see it, but the kind of questioning you are doing is a healthy sign.
Sorry so long - I think I was probably just working some stuff out for myself too.
As they say, take what you need and leave the rest.
xo
O
My theory in a nutshell is that your cauldron frequently reaches it's capacity. Let me hasten to say that I don't think you're a witch - not at all! I have my own cauldron - it's where I unthinkingly toss the everyday indignities, indignation, hurt feelings, outrage, despair, etc. When I say unthinkingly, I mean that I literally don't think I'm holding onto anything. I think I'm just blowing it off, toughing it out, moving along. Not so - my brain relegates it to the pot. It's a big cauldron, so it holds a lot of bubbling lava without me needing to pay any mind to it. But then what happens, out of the clear blue sky (it seems) is that one more thing goes in the pot and BOOM it boils over.
I didn't used to know about the cauldron. It took me a couple of 'good' relapses to understand that the 'something" that happened (which I didn't even know it was) was just the exact ingredient needed to make the stew lethal. The relapses were 'good' because something in my brain clicked that never had before, and it had to do with all of the things I was just toughing through. This is, in part, why I suggested that you write down every time you are feeling anxious, angry or otherwise edgy. If you work at it hard enough, you'll start seeing connections. At least I did. Because I learned that I had to dissect and identify those feelings to understand where they were coming from. Not in a surface, "That guy is just a jerk" way, but in a much more exploratory way. Why do I care so much that guy is a jerk? What is it about him or his mannerisms or whatever stirs the pot for me? Who does that feeling remind me of?
Also, it took many years for me to get to the crest of the alcoholic roller coaster. But once I was there, it was a very steep downslope. I think that's true for a lot of us. Those people who ascribe to the "alcoholism is an allergy" notion found that works for them. And that's ok for them, but if it doesn't suffice for you, that's ok too. As long as you don't feel the need to argue about it. There are also plenty of people in my AA circles that subscribe to the idea that they were literally born alcoholic. I don't think that - I think that the circumstances and conditions of my life and the way I did or didn't deal with all of that facilitated my addiction to alcohol. I used to feel the need to argue about that - to make other people see the truth. Until I learned that all I really needed was to be true to myself.
When I really really stopped drinking, I knew I had to find a way to keep the cauldron from boiling over or I was bound to drink again. Not that I'm so powerless that I can't control my own arm, but because I had no way to control my feelings aside from doing something to alter my mind so that I 'didn't care.' The freaky thing is that part was not really known to me - like I said earlier. It was quite the comeuppance to realize my brain was sneaking around my back like that! (My therapist frequently said, "It (alcohol) does something for you." And I would nod my head sagely, thinking "Sure does, but I don't really know what that is - why it's worth all of this misery.")
I believe the reason you got through all of those life events without being a full-blown drunk is that (a) it took awhile for you to sink far enough over the edge to realize that alcohol was a problem and (b) you were so busy surviving. Perhaps in the reverse order. I, too, didn't become out of control until things were somewhat better in my life. And then I started causing my own problems, though I didn't allow myself to recognize it at the time. I found new things to throw in the cauldron without even realizing that's what I was doing. I was a victim, Jupiter. And man, did that ever hurt - because I didn't understand why I kept landing in the same patterns. I didn't really know any different, not down in my bones - I just continued to give other people power over my emotions, believing that they must be right to be treating me like garbage. Because I, in fact, was garbage - I was just plain a 'wrong' person.' Who knew that would attract all of the wrong people to me? Who knew that my eyes were shrouded with my own learned perceptions that protected me when I was younger? Probably lots of people knew, because they told me so. But I simply could not understand that, smart as I am. "Well, what am I supposed to do then??" Nobody could tell me. Well, they tried, but I couldn't understand what they were saying. It's so weird, living that life. And horrible, too.
To really 'do' recovery, I had to get selfish. I pretty much holed myself up here in my home and did not allow any kind of conflict in my space. I didn't go 'home' to see the folks for three years - and even then, I only saw a small handful of them, entirely on my terms. The last two years have been primarily about taking care of me, recognizing when I'm "off" and doing the right things about that, creating a space that's very comfortable for me, and advocating for my own needs. In a sense, I've needed to mother myself because I didn't received the parenting I needed as a child.
You can do that, too. But you probably need help, hun. I know you said you're over all of your past traumas, but I think maybe you got as patched up as you could at the time and now it's time to take that healing further. Would you consider seeing a therapist again?
I know this sucks, Jupiter. And you probably can't see it, but the kind of questioning you are doing is a healthy sign.
Sorry so long - I think I was probably just working some stuff out for myself too.
As they say, take what you need and leave the rest.
xo
O
It totally resonates with me. But it's not possible for me to see a therapist. I can't even get a f to f doctors appointment and the psychotherapist Isaw years ago on the NHS? There were 2 serving a quarter of a million people in the health District. They have stopped this service entirely now. The GPs just shove pills down people's throats instead.I have read a lot of Jung, he totally resonates with me.
And he said, the psyche needs constant maintenance, much like you are saying!
Yes, I wish I could dig a little hole for myself and go and live in it for a couple of years.
Maybe have my littlest come visit 🙂
But I feel so much GUILT over my kids and what I put them through, I feel obliged to help them through the mess I helped create in their psyche.
It's funny you use the witch analogy. I did practice witchcraft. It's all about energy control. Neutral. Depends what you use it for.
There are dark forces in this world and the people have been made deliberately ignorant of this. Ancient knowledge has been made forbidden, so the "masses" cannot fight back.. through fear.
But maybe that's a topic for another website
I did once go to a psychic fayre and this bloke with his computer did the alignment of the planets of my birth. It did come out I am an actual witch 😆
Anyway have loads more to think about with your post. My Christmas tree killer son is about to pick me up for Edinburgh Xmas market (yey )😐
Life Goes On
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 6,072
I have concluded that I can’t make up for what I put my kids through. What I can do is move forward toward my own actualization.
The condition of the world is something to discuss elsewhere for sure - it divides people when they (we) try to define what is happening. Everyone sees it, but it’s like arguing over whether alcoholism is a disease or an allergy or an “ism” at all. Doesn’t matter. It’s toxic and I need to stop harming myself and learn to be a decent human being.
I believe (now!) that our choices are our choices, regardless of why we make them. The ‘not victim’ way to face those choices is to become entirely self-responsible. Decades ago, an horrific oil spill prompted a man to decide to never use a car again, which led him to walking the world. I don’t know what impact that has on corporate responsibility, but I believe he did make a little positive mark on thousands of people. Because he changed his own life to match his insides. He doesn’t rage against the machine, he just peacefully declines participate. I wanna be like that guy.
Other times I want to storm around righting the wrongs of the world. Guess which approach is healthier.
I hope you enjoyed the market!
The condition of the world is something to discuss elsewhere for sure - it divides people when they (we) try to define what is happening. Everyone sees it, but it’s like arguing over whether alcoholism is a disease or an allergy or an “ism” at all. Doesn’t matter. It’s toxic and I need to stop harming myself and learn to be a decent human being.
I believe (now!) that our choices are our choices, regardless of why we make them. The ‘not victim’ way to face those choices is to become entirely self-responsible. Decades ago, an horrific oil spill prompted a man to decide to never use a car again, which led him to walking the world. I don’t know what impact that has on corporate responsibility, but I believe he did make a little positive mark on thousands of people. Because he changed his own life to match his insides. He doesn’t rage against the machine, he just peacefully declines participate. I wanna be like that guy.
Other times I want to storm around righting the wrongs of the world. Guess which approach is healthier.
I hope you enjoyed the market!
voices ca**y
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: St. Paul Minnesota
Posts: 4,403
Withdrawal+tired+ruminating. I was thinking that quitting smoking was harder than drinking. It's not tho, drinking is way harder to recover from but I didn't relapse with the alcohol. I've made quitting smoking 40xs harder than it had to be.
voices ca**y
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: St. Paul Minnesota
Posts: 4,403
Originally Posted by Dee74
Yeah thats a hard task for a lot of people. I believe you can do it tho 
D
D
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