Orchid1

I have recently been very interested in focus,discipline,self-control and all those things for obvious reasons. In my research I came across this experiment that was done with kids were they were left alone in a room with one marshmallow and if they didn't eat it when the adult came back they would get another one and have two, of course a lot of the kids ate it, some 'cleverly' nibbled but a few did not eat, the ones who didn't distracted themselves or did not even look at it.

Over the weekend I helped a friend move and champagne was opened to 'open' the house, I took the glass, made my way to the kitchen and poured it out, at home there was a bottle of wine and I was starting to feel tired resisting it so I just poured it out and that tiredness left. As if I conjured it, a particular informational channel on youtube I follow and thoroughly enjoy posted a video with the title of this tread. I read through some of the papers quoted and it is fascinating! I have linked it below... it's a little less than 13 minutes long.

I understand now why a lot of the advice I get here is to just not go to gatherings for the first few months, this video helped me understand why physiologically it is excellent advice! I can only have a certain amount of willpower and if I spend all of it resisting drinking other things will fall through the cracks and I will just be tired eventually drinking again as I've done. Those reading this I hope you can watch it and it ultimately helps in creating a solid recovery plan.

https://youtu.be/k2Wcu6aGyz8

LumenandNyx

Um - I would never stare at a bottle of wine for ten minutes and try not to drink it.

What alcoholic - in their right mind - would put their drink of choice in front of them and then try not to drink it?

I think that study with the kids is ridiculous as is the title to your post (I understand where it came from - I watched the video).

I got sober alone using the cold turkey method and lived to write about it. I can say with most certainty that willpower is for winners.

Best.

Philemon

Why can you only have a certain amount of willpower? Doesn't make sense. The more you practice self discipline and willpower the stronger it becomes surely. The same as any "discipline" that is practiced, be it a religious discipline, work discipline, exercise discipline etc

dpac414

Respectfully, I think Orchid's post was more about that creating a solid recovery plan to rely on is very helpful, rather than just relying on willpower alone. Not to say that it can't be done, but rather that it's usually a lot easier to handle things if you have a plan and your willpower fails you.

We've found that the AV can be so vicious and sneaky. Our alcoholism makes us do irrational things that seem ridiculous to "normal" people but seemingly logical to us. I once slept with a beer next to my bed for months and prided myself on not drinking it, until I did. It's weird and can't be explained and it's why I'm an alcoholic.

Unfortunately, a lot of misconception about addiction in general is centered around willpower and the inability to understand why a lot of addicts can't just stop. It's why we need rehabs and treatment plans and sobriety forums. Because when our willpower ultimately fails us, we have that safety net to catch us and support us.

Everyone has their own recovery method that works for them, and I'm in no place to say who is right or wrong as long as it keeps you sober. Orchid, I'm glad that you were able to make the right decision and pour the alcohol out. It kind of signifies to your brain that maybe you really are done drinking, after all. However, I would absolutely take your own advice and stay away from those kinds of situations until you have a firmer grasp on sobriety. I'm over 1.5 years and I still don't dare step foot in a bar or similar place.

Keep on keeping on

MaximusD

I have heard many times that willpower is finite. I agree with that assumption however it can be exercised. My therapist has also mentioned that willpower is finite.

Obladi

1. A former drunk who has recovered using the AVRT method might.
2. I think an "alcoholic in their right mind" is an oxymoron.

I 100% agree that staying away from trying circumstances whenever possible is the best move, Orchid. What I'm doing, and presumably all true recovering or recovered addicts do, is learning how to deal with dissonance in ways that don't involve the offending substance or behavior. Staring at the marshmallows didn't help me in the least. Removing marshmallows from anywhere that might threaten touching my lips was a superior approach as it allowed me to focus on what was really bugging me. If the marshmallows were around, they'd be a good distraction, but they sure wouldn't help me to pay attention to what was leading me to want the marshmallows in the first place.

Now that I'm a bit down the road, I really don't care for marshmallows. The very thought makes me nauseous. If I went to someone's house where they imbibe in marshmallows, I wouldn't be tempted but I probably also wouldn't want to hang around if the main event was a marshmallow orgy.

Good job getting rid of the stuff.

PeaceManic

Yes but if it's finite and like a muscle, hopefully it can be grown too?

It's a nice idea. Either way, avoiding bars and any alcohol in the house is no brainer for the forseeable future for me.

MaximusD

I watched the video and totally agree with it. Remove the temptation and you don't deplete your willpower. This kind of goes along with brushing off the AV immediately if it speaks up. If you engage the AV it will win.

Dee74

Going to break a personal rule and not watch the vid before posting cos it’s not playing on my iPad - but I’ve heard the idea before.

As it relates to recovery, I’ve shared many times that acceptance - acceptance of what I was and what I needed to do about it - worked a lot better for me than willpower. Part of my will wanted to drink. Gritting my teeth and fighting that made me tired, and when I got tired I gave in.

I avoided tempting situations and grew me some sober muscles instead. As they and I grew, I changed.

Now it’s kinda like me and liver. I used to eat a lot of liver cos it was cheap and booze was expensive.
I don’t need willpower now not to eat liver cos I despise liver.

D

Sober45

I haven’t watched the video but I can say relying on willpower alone did not work for me. This is evidenced by my many failed attempts. I had to change the way I think about alcohol.

that said, i still had to use willpower to change my focus. So for me it’s a combination of willpower and good planning.

I'm sober now because I have reasons. That’s why I can be around alcohol and not be bothered. The old me couldn’t do that because it was too draining on my willpower.

Orchid, good on you for searching for answers. That is how we do it!

Orchid1

I'm glad for all who gave their 2 cents, you added life to my original post and gave it character. I keep thinking about the feeling I had pouring down the booze and right now my feeling to go buy another, it is so much effort...get in car, drive to store, wear annoying mask, spend money, get back and fight myself to drink it, dump it down the drain... It maybe willpower keeping me from going to the store but it's not a struggle, the booze is very far away and I have other things to attend to but if the booze was in my house now, this may have been a day I was back at the day/week before day 1. Lumen & Philemon maybe the what I wrote did not correctly explain my meaning but I hope the other people did in a better way.


I would argue that this question you pose illustrates willpower's limitations. Though I've never read through the AVRT method it was mentioned it had something to do with that, though I imagine there are more tools taught and used that just the power of will.

LumenandNyx

That sets the mood for a great debate, doesn't it?

I had nothing else at my fingertips to pull/drag me through withdrawal except that I wasn't giving in without a fight. That's it. That's all I had. And it worked.

Now - how I stay sober is another story.

Obladi

I don't think there's a debate here at all, Lumen. I think your experience is probably right in alignment with the majority of us. Getting sober isn't easy but the only way to do it is to go through the hard part, gnashing teeth, wailing, kicking and screaming if necessary. I've probably done it literally hundreds of time, and yes it took enormous will power the times I did it on my own. Short of institutionalization, the only way through is will power.

Staying sober is not a matter of will power, not for me.
It's a matter of learning how to navigate life without a drink to take the edge off. Of actually coming to prefer that route.
In my book, this is much more difficult work and it's crucial to take the notion of drinking completely off the table, by whatever means are necessary.
White-knuckling on a long term basis is a recipe for disaster, at least for me.

O

FlyAgain

Have just read through and was intrigued by the thought of will power. For me, this time around, not drinking hasn’t relied on any willpower (as far as I see willpower). Whenever the crazy idea of drinking has come in to my head it soon passes.

it also got me thinking that the last few months of my drinking took real willpower. Crawling out of bed, sweating and ill, putting on any clothes to crawl to the shop to buy booze, working out which credit card wasn’t maxed out to buy it, forcing the first few down me, and in the evening having to pretend to people that all was well.

took real will power to repeat that every day for months. Yuck.

DriGuy

It's a fairly common surprise for recovering alcoholics to realize that the willpower they sought is not what long term sobriety is about. In sobriety our will power does not strengthen. Instead our need disappears. Granted I used willpower in the first week of sobriety, but there is no way I could have lived with that struggle for the rest of my life. I would be an insane basket case at the end of a year.

DriGuy

Double post.

fini

guess i was in my wrong mind in some people’s books.
there was a day, maybe i was about four or five months sober, when i decided i needed to understand what the real attraction of this liquid was. i needed to “see” the stuff, from a sober pov.
so i went to the liquor store, spent some time picking out something i had “liked”, bought it, sat in the car with it, looking at it. turning it, staring at it, interrogating it and me and wondering what the heck this really was about....just a bottle with some innocuous liquid that in and of itself was nothing.

the only thing i really saw was that the “problem” was in me. the stuff was irrelevant.

and lest anyone misunderstand, this buying and sitting with it had nothing at all to do with willpower. had much to do with what DriGuy so nicely put this way: “ In sobriety our will power does not strengthen. Instead our need disappears. ”

it was the most right mind i was in, actually

btw, not recommending this or advocating. just trying to say that getting to a place of knowing the actual irrelevance of the substance itself is possible.

ZIP

Good point.
I think it's lots of willpower and effort in early stages, but also lifestyle and habit changes. Then, maybe the stress of raw willpower subsides and regular effort kind of takes over.
The longer I remain AF, it's not so much willpower....more like good judgement, and some effort to avoid showing up where lots of booze is flowing.
I suppose I've kind of reached the point in my life where hanging in bars, or a getting plastered everyday at home is in the past. I've moved on.

warrens

For me it is willing-ness and not willpower that serves to sustain my sobriety. I am simply willing to do what it takes to continue on this path of utter and joyful liberation. Now, after 8.5 years, I can be around alcohol and it poses no attraction whatsoever. I sometimes see myself in others who drink, however, and it is more than a little unsettling. It's like watching two cars before a collision. I would think it best, in early recovery, to surround yourself with those who don't drink. I am still utterly amazed at how many very interesting and engaging people don't even think about alcohol. It's not part of their reality. They don't avoid it, they just never think about it. Cultivate willingness. Be willing to admit that your willpower is power-less. Once we do that, there is no struggle, just that place where freedom lay.

Warren

C0ntr0ls

If willpower works, great. If something else works for, great. Find what works and don't think too much about it as long as sobriety is the end result.

This thought process has worked for me [so far] in addition to my proprietary diet and Mother-natures cocktails.

YMMV

Stay safe kids.