AAPJ

The 60 Minutes segment linked below is quite interesting. Segment includes an interview with someone who was drinking 20 units a day and ceased drinking after treatment with psychedelics. No interest personally but if it helps some folks more power to them.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/psyched...es-2019-12-29/

tekink

Psychedelics to treat X has been a thing for a while now. Not sure what I think about it. I did a lot of psychedelics when I was young, that was my drug of choice, one day I just grew out of them. from what I remember you can drink like a fish on them and not feel the effects. In my mind they just go hand in hand with drinking and the comedown can be a little hard on some of them so the alcohol takes the edge off of that.

Maybe if it's a new experience for the person it's more helpful? It does make you see more about yourself but idk if that's much more outside of the first time experience.

cantsleep123

I watched that and was very interested. I'd love to try that therapy for my anxiety. I think if you tried to just use at home it wouldn't be helpful but under the watchful eye of a trained therapist it has the potential to be a revolutionary treatment. It's a shame that research got killed off due to political reasons.

PeaceManic

I'm sure there are beneficial results for some in controlled environments. Apparently it has helped some people come to terms with terminal illness too, as it probably dissolves our ego and expands awareness.

I would never try it though as Schizophrenia runs in my family, and there's always a small danger there of triggering latent mental illness.

Dee74

I've did some 'informal field research' on psychedelics over the years - I never liked them so it wasn't a lot...friends of mine have done a lot more over 40 years and still drink like the alcoholics they are.

Based on that I respectfully think this is a blind alley.

I know you meant no harm AAPJ but I'm disappointed this is in the Newcomers section if I'm honest.

I really hope anyone who gets excited over this will do their due diligence.

D

cantsleep123

The segment was not about doing psychedelics at home and hoping for results, it was about treatment by licensed professionals in a clinical setting. It also includes rigorous therapy sessions before and after the "trip".

Dee74

Yep, I understood all that. Its not a new idea.
Still against it personally CS.

D

cantsleep123

Yeah you would automatically be excluded due to the family schizophrenia connection. It's definitely not for everyone. Personally I would try it in a heartbeat for anxiety it ever became an available therapy option. Like anything else in medicine/therapy nothing is a cure all though.

Pouncer

Objection noted, Dee. Ken Kesey, aside.

I have lost several friends to suicide and as a person who struggles with severe depression and suicidal ideation, this therapy is interesting. I have been following this research over the years for PTSD treatment - love articles about physiological psychology and what researchers are learning about the human mind.

PeaceManic

I tend to agree with Dee74. Even if I didn't have mental illness in my family, and if it does help some, the trauma of a "bad trip" seems too dangerous to me.

cantsleep123

Luckily it seems that the experience doesn't have to be fun for it to work. I look forward to reading more about this and hope for those suffering that this may actually prove helpful long-term.

biminiblue

Gosh, I always have a negative reaction to these threads...as Dee has decided it's okay to leave it up, I'll put in my two cents.

I did acid back in the day. It totally freaked me out the few times I did it. Granted that was a street drug, no idea what was really in it but the experience was the same each time so I think there was an element of the same drug each time. It lasts for a very very long time. After an hour I wanted out. It just keeps getting more intense and doesn't let up at all for at least 8-12 hours. Horrible.

At this point in my life I'm drug free other than a thyroid med and coffee and there is no way in H-E-double hockey sticks I'm taking any drug that can alter my perceptions.

That's what got me into all the trouble I've ever been into in my life. Drugs and alcohol; and not just mind-altering drugs but the perception that if I take this I can change my biological reality.

I'm sad about this thread. I think it's dangerous. There are so many ways for people to blow up their lives. So. Many. Giving addicts *hope* that they can solve all their problems with yet another drug is wrong, IMO. How many threads do we see where someone is trying to quit something that they started in order to get off something else? Kratom for opiates, subox instead of heroin, pot as a sub for alcohol, alcohol as a sub for food addiction, benzos instead of alcohol, on and on.

I see threads all the time where the poster is taking 97-11 "supplements" that are supposed to help. A cabinet of Rx drugs to "help."

I would imagine that someone would enjoy it and then go out in the street and continue buying it.

Not sure why anyone would enjoy that, but...

Slippery for us.

ShiftHappens

I dont know, maybe Im just not that "sick", but the psychiatric profession is doing their drug research with Ketamine and every other drug and "treatment"...

Scares the bejesus out of me.

Though if I was perpetually in the miserable state of mind I was in when I was drinking alcohol, I would have let them remove my brain to get relief.

Maybe they can experiment on themselves and I'll look in to it again after they have scientific proof in another 70 years or so

abgator

What I find most objectionable is the black and white attitude toward addiction. It's not "slippery for us", its "slippery" for "some" of us. Not all alcoholics are addicts to everything. Some, like myself, have one single addiction and that's alcohol. I long used Xanax responsibly, as directed, on an as needed basis. No withdrawals or issues when I stopped taking it after 10 years. I've had surgeries and took half the Vicodin and then tossed it. Didn't miss it. I have a medical marijuana license and on occasional use it for my insomnia, but I have no desire to touch it at any other time unless I'm desperate to get some sleep. Just because these things are impossible to some of you, doesn't make it impossible for all alcoholics like so many want to claim. Usually AA folks. Personally, I find the self righteousness of the all or nothing label to be frustrating.

We're not all the same. Our brains aren't wired all the same. People's addictions are different; sometimes fueled by genetics, sometimes by trauma and PTSD. There is absolutely a place in society for treatments like this when done in a same, observed manner under a professional. The same way they're having great success treating those with PTSD with ayahuasca or ketamine. It isn't something for everyone, but it's everything to some.

Dee74

My opinion, as a person and SR member, has been noted, lol.

As an Admin I can only act on rules, not feelings.

For the moment, no rules broke.

Dee
Administrator
SR

Derringer

Having taken a few , I can see how it might give someone an experience profound enough to stop them drinking for a while, but it would have to be repeated I would think, cause the old self always comes back with out ongoing maintenance.

Ultimately though, I think it will be too fraught with danger and one day will be looked upon like we look back at leeches and bleeding and think ' wtf?'

abgator

I'm sorry but this is asinine to compare what we know about science today with the technology we have to blood letting, even if it's hyperbole.

Cultures all for many thousands of years have been using psychadelics for treatment purposes. The simple fact is that the treatment of psilocybin (and similar substances) have been highly effective in treating PTSD, anxieties, etc. As the article noted, old "forgotten" memories come flooding back. People spend YEARS in psychotherapy trying to uncover memories so traumatic that their conscious mind has blacked out, but the subconscious mind knows and wreaks havoc on their brain and body as a result. These treatments allow for those traumas to come to the forefront so they can be handled properly instead of being buried with addictions in a matter of hours instead of those years of therapy.

And no, I've never taken any kind of psychedelic drug. And even though my alcoholism is directly related to a trauma my brain has mostly blacked out, I don't think I'd have the balls to try any of those treatments myself. But it's disingenous to compare it to leeches when we do have evidence to show that these techniques have been highly successful in treating people, just because you may not have heard about it other than a CBS article. I've heard a number of Drs discuss this, heard/seen the results/percentages, etc.

I'm not trying to be confrontational, it just seems like there's a lot of opinions being made based off a knee jerk reaction from an article and have never done any actual research on the subject.

Obladi

Much as it pains me to disagree with Dee the person, I agree with you abgator. There was a time not sooo long ago when electroconvulsive therapy (ECT) was considered to be barbaric. When I learned this in my Senior High School Psych class, I was kind of disturbed because my grandmother had been undergoing this treatment for years. It was the one and only thing that restored her to sanity when she went into desperate states of deep depression and delusion. Now, some 40 years on, ECT is standard maintenance treatment for certain types of depression.

We are still in the infancy of understanding the brain and how it works. We know anecdotally that many many people have reported spiritual experiences with psychedelics, and there's no reason to believe those accounts are false. Does that mean that people should rush off to their favorite dealer behind the gas station to cop some LSD? Of course not; there's no telling what's in that crap. It could kill you for sure - or worse.

But when an institution like Johns Hopkins is publicizing that they are doing controlled studies and seeing positive outcomes? I think that's something to keep an eye on. Would I have tried it in that sort of setting if nothing else worked for me and I had the opportunity? Hell, yeah. But like you, I've never had issues with any substance other than alcohol. I don't know why - the human brain is indeed a mysterious instrument.

O

silentrun

Yeah, It seems to me that there should be some type of guidance that goes along with it probably even when the person is having the experience.

My mind did some weird things to me while it was healing and I'm a big music fan. I felt "connected" through the messages given in songs. Every lyric seemed like it was pushing me toward self-acceptance and giving me another perspective. I felt like musicians had been that place and they were guiding me in.

Ir wasn't as intense as an acid trip or anything but something was going on and my mind was wide open to seeing things from an entirely different viewpoint. It was very healing.

Obladi

The study I read about includes that component as well.