WaterOx

Ah, well that is fair. For me I suppose it is the complete opposite. When I quit smoking 15 years ago I always prided myself on not being one of those people who suddenly "hated all smokers". This, despite the ultra pariahs that smokers had become. It would have been very easy for me to jump on anyone's band wagon and say "yeah! smokers are NASTY!" but I never did. In fact I maintain to this day that if it weren't for the fact that cigarettes are so deadly, I'd be smoking them today. Heck I'd be working for Philip Morris and giving lectures to high school kids about how great it is to smoke and why they should, too.

But as it so happens smoking kills you.

Flash forward to my new struggle with alcohol. It turns out people who drink are NOT ultra pariahs. No, if you live anywhere near me you see mobs of them roving around right about now with wine glass in hand, all having a great time. Power to them, right? I agree, if it weren't for the fact that it triggers the hell out of me.

So I discovered that I am probably not as high and mighty and noble as I was when taking the "oh smokers aren't so bad" approach. I needed a new approach. So here I am, doing my best.

I don't expect to criticize wine drinkers for the rest of my life. But 2 months into sobriety while they jam up the cross walks for 10 minutes, idly stumbling by, completely unaware of their surroundings while I try to get to the Safeway just so I can get some "mint tea"? Yeah, you better friggin believe I'm not happy to see wine drinkers right now.

WeThinkNot

I have friends that are pretentious craft beer snobs. Yet whenever we would be at a party or social gathering they would give me grief if I was having a cognac.

I explained to them that you don't hold the snifter with your palm to look like a tool. Rather cognac is supposed to be warm so the heat from your palm brings it to the proper temperature. My friends would just scoff at this and then go back to blabbing about IPA ad nauseum.

Everybody is capable of being a d-bag let's not get carried away.

bexxed

I like you. Keep going with staying sober and posting here. You’re doing great.

WaterOx

Even at my most pretentious state of wine tasting I was always able to laugh at myself. That was what became so fun and attractive about wine. I used to think it was only for rich high minded people- but I discovered it was for everyone. It really had a way of bringing people together, in my view...much like the way food could.

Sigh...which is why i made this thread. lol!

What's more, I agree, sobriety can never be a focus on negativity- but if anyone cares to know, I have been investing about 99% of the rest of my posts and (more importantly) my private life into building new positive channels and plans in regards to leading a sober life.

I like to try and use every trick in the book. This is just one page

Finalround

I was looking for that funny, satirical thread someone started to mock their own affection they once had for wine by musing about the stereotypes of wine and those that drink it...

Guess the mods removed it.

Maybe lightening up a little isn't such a bad thing.

CaptainHaddock

I too feel a need and in fact that there is room for some lighthearted banter to be had around here from time to time.

To me it doesn’t matter if along the way a thread like that gets interspersed with some serious posts, or that getting and staying sober is in itself essentially dead serious business.

Dee74

We mods get a bum rap

I remember the thread but not enough to find it and bump it back up right now.
Its around

D

least

All I know is that I'm so much happier sober, wine doesn't even enter my thoughts anymore.

MantaLady

Nowadays I prefer to keep my side of the street clean rather than pass comment on the state of the other side. But, like a few others here I realised that I don’t actually like the taste of wine. Looking back the first half of any glass was more of an ordeal to get down, so I always drank the first glass super quick and once that hit my pleasure centres all bets were off. In the early days before alcohol became a problem for me I used to think that buying expensive wine meant it was ok, when I was at the worst of my addiction I used to still buy expensive wine inbetween the cheap stuff to kid myself I was a classy chick and not a drunk!

Numblady

Ultimately there is some really good dialogue in this thread. Stayingsassy, you captured and far more eloquently explained the thought that I had. That some of the labels are supposedly tongue in cheek so people (women in particular) view them as a light hearted irreverent little quip...like I think there may actually be a wine called mommy juice. And I know there are similar other ones. They bugged me when I was drinking. They still bug me now (the labels and the culture, not so much the people).

But on a more personal note, similarly to WaterOx I do genuinely have some feelings of negativity towards wine, and it feels a little therapeutic to express (not dwell on). I live with an active alcoholic who yesterday bragged about drinking 19 margaritas in the morning, came home, passed out for almost four hours, then got up to drink more—you know cocktail before dinner, then wine with a meal, so civilized. Except that it’s not at all. So yeah, I have some resentment towards wine and at least one person who drinks it and shrouds it in what feels like something cultural when at bottom it is an addiction to a poison. And yes there are larger issues to deal with as a human but it also just feels a little satisfying when you aren’t ready for the bigger stuff to make a critical comment here or there at something that has caused you pain, from your own actions and those of your spouse. I know that no one is saying that’s not okay. I guess just sometimes my heart hurts a little when I think anyone would want to critique how people handle the tough feelings, especially newcomers. That is all.

No, wait. P.s. we love you Dee and all the mods! You do a fantastic job keeping the lights on and recalling threads from the thousands and guiding the conversation when necessary. Much love!

WaterOx

Yes. The culture.

Imagine if we had crack cocaine on such a pedestal. Would this be ok? How about heroine? Crank?

Imagine a "crack tasting" or "heroine-thirty" or "mommy needs her crank". Would this be ok?

Robert Parker gave the latest rock a 98 rating for its blueberry menthalated hues and a smooth ease that didn't make you cough or even throw up!

"this crack rock has the smooth satisfaction of skiing down the Sierra Foothills with a calm ease that blends with the pine trees on a winter's day". Charming.

Somehow this is all taboo but when it comes to alcohol (and especially wine), it's all just fine. I don't hear people proclaiming "hey if people in crack dens can't handle the loveliness of crack then that is on THEM....losers. If they can't handle the occasional crack rock with a meal well then they have no business smoking it like the rest of us normal people"

Final disclaimer: I'm not abdicating responsibility here. On the contrary. This is all.on.me....and although I like to think I'm not a grandiose person, this here is truly a "me against the world" situation if there ever was one.

I'm sure some of you are so far along with all this that you glide by it without a care in the world but some of us aren't quite there yet. The drug is real, the addiction is real and no....one....cares......they are all poised and ready for you to join them again. To drink again. It is what people do.

Those are some pretty serious odds.

ScottFromWI

There are plenty off things that "culture" puts on a pedestal that are not good for us. How about the promotion of consumerism in general? You literally can't turn around without seeing an ad for a new fancy car, house, or some other material possession that you should run out and purchase. Or how about fast food and gluttony - that heavily promoted and even encourage - but we know there are people with very real eating disorders. Or look at Marjijuana right now - with all the legalization happening, pot and all of the derives are becoming a multi billion dollar industry.

Having said that, I'm not running out to buy a new car and fur coat every day, eating Mcdonalds 3 meals a day and smoking weed all day long.

AKA - society, the media and all of those things are something you cannot control. There will always be temptation, the latests snake oil of the month, etc. Is it fair? No. But the reality is that life isn't fair.

What one can do is choose a path of their own in regards to all of the things mentioned above. And believe it or not, you can turn off the tv and most of the BS out there on social media and you really won't miss much at all. Plus it will give you a lot more time to focus on things that actually matter or that you can control.

MantaLady

Absolutely what I was going to say Scott but you articulated it more eloquently that I could have! As I see myself as an addict rather than an alcoholic I look more and see more around unhealthy addictions that are rammed down our throats in this consumerist society, all over TV, advertising, magazines and the internet there is gambling, sex, food, shopping which are devastating addictions for many.

Andante

I found that indulging any form of "outrage addiction" -- including railing against the alcohol culture I once embraced but now reject -- was bad for my addictive tendencies in general. I found it far more productive to learn to "live and let live" than to get upset about things I couldn't control.

WaterOx

All true.

I guess if nothing else, it's just a "sobering" reality is all. Pun, completely intended.

Evoo

Haha, yeah I go to this one.

Wine is insidious for an alcoholic. I actually loved the taste of a great glass of wine, and if I were able to stick to one glass of a great wine on holidays — I wouldn’t be an alcoholic.

Wine also, as Finalround has stated, makes for one of the nastiest hangover/withdrawals I could ever experience. Nothing could send me into a bender like pounding a bottle or two the night before. I’m 48 hours in a complete mental and physical funk before I can even feel halfway normal again.

You wake up with that nasty taste of wine still in your system, the dry/ugly hangover. I can guaratunee you the next morning I’ll be drinking something stronger to “relieve” those symptoms.

And as for “high society” wine drinking — there’s nothing I find more hilarious and wasteful than an event where people are spitting it out into a bucket. WTAF.

Then there’s all the Bed Bath and Beyond or Hallmark products about wine that so many people keep, the glasses that fit an entire bottle — how cute! Mommy’s a problem drinker! It is more than a little odd to me that overconsumption of wine is seen as a fun or necessary component of motherhood. My wife hates that stuff.

So to the OP, wine itself does not suck — there’s a lot of beauty in wine, vineyards, tastes and smells. But it’s definitely not going to pass my lips again. I know where that path leads!

lessgravity

This.

Evoo

Yeah I feel similarly, but I’m not not sure that was the “point” of WaterOx’s post.

Stayingsassy

It’s still a good thread. I’m not arguing that no one is able to enjoy a nice day with wine in Napa, but this thread triggered one of my biggest issues with alcohol today and that’s the specific marketing toward stressed women. And women do have a lot of stress. Not only do we work, we usually manage the homes and more often than not, we take on all the emotional labor for the whole family....parents, in-laws, kids, pets, friends, you name it. I am paid more than twice hourly what my husband is paid but I am the one getting texts all day from my adult and young kid or my mother when I am having a hard day....that’s just an example of a typical woman’s day. Then we clean the house and make dinner when we get home, take on everyone’s pain, and have to sort through it all. At the end of the day, that glass of wine, with its ability to knock out stress in the immediate sense, is not just tempting, but captivating.

Used to be, women would use social networks to deal with stress. We would sit with other women in the neighborhood and play bridge, drink tea and make finger sandwiches. We would do chores with the other women and talk. There were always chores....we are women. . Where are the card games, hikes outdoors, lunches out, talks over tea...they are there, but usually, women get together for one reason: to get hammered.

Things are so complicated now, we are so much more isolated, we have so much more on our plates, and in my generation, a lot of the men have been raised to be good providers, a bit distant emotionally, let the women handle the women stuff, and then get away with the guys to unwind. It isn’t their fault, it’s caused many divorces: But people behave how they were raised to behave. Fortunately the next generation has changed a lot of that because we are all in the workforce now, but women still do the emotional labor, for the most part.

The stress for men is there, but for the women of my generation raised to “have it all,” the temptation to have it all and a bottle of wine is enormous. We don’t need help from marketing, the internet, the women we meet, the women at work and all our friends to feel the pull of alcohol. More women are drinking now than ever before, alcoholism has skyrocketed in the female generation, it is killing women young with liver failure, it is ruining families, and this rise in alcoholics among women coincides directly with marketing to women. Marketing for wine. Where is the “daddy juice?” The “dad needs his beer to cope” label”. You won’t find it. Men are pictured golfing, in Rocky Mountains or picking up women in bars while drinking. Why is that?

I’m done here. I’ve said enough and if you all know stayingsassy, if you find my hot button on days that I am off work for awhile, you never hear the end of me. . I’m solid in my sobriety but I am passionate about recovery,

nez

When I sobered up I was a chef/owner of a fine dining restaurant in a wine valley. I bought wine. I served wine. I opened wine tableside and extolled the virtues and nuances. I cooked with wine. I created food and wine pairing 5 course menus. Participated in events with wineries. Etc, etc, etc. I continued to do all of those things and more in sobriety.

The same scenario professionally existed around beer as well, which was my alcohol siren song.

I can trash talk wine and beer all I want about how crappy they are, but my BS meter will immediately go off and let me know that I am lying. I spent far too many years lying and trying to fool myself to do so any more. There is absolutely nothing inherently wrong with wine or beer. The wrong with beer and wine, strictly originates and stems from my cranium, not the product.

I know it was suggested earlier that I start a thread about sobriety rather than participate in this one, but I am hard headed. I don't do this to be judgemental or from a pulpit or to squash anyone's lighthearted fun, merely to relate the experience of my journey thus far. I do so in the spirit of paying forward what has so freely been given to me by people "so far along with all this that you glide by it without a care in the world" , because I am not "quite there yet. The drug is real, the addiction is real and no....one....cares......they are all poised and ready for you to join them again. To drink again. It is what people do.
Those are some pretty serious odds."