ScottFromWI

My comments have nothing to do with your parenting decisions, sorry if you read it that way.

My comments are suggesting that you yourself are leaving the door open to drinking again by not making an absolute commitment to doing it. And that if you drink again it will be a conscious choice you make, not a function of some disease or affliction. AKA - it's all up to you from this point forward.

I say these things because I've been there. And lots of others here have been there too. And it's not something you can explain away in advance - to your kids, your parents, or anyone her for that matter.

The bottom line is you need to focus on learning how to change yourself - not trying to explain to people why you happen to be that way, or what might happen in the future.

Meraviglioso

I agree with this for the most part, except I do, very much so, believe my young children deserve and need an explanation as to why I am "this way" Alcoholism is something kids witness but probably don't understand- "Tommy's mom drinks wine but doesn't act the way mommy does when she drinks wine" as a small example.

My kid had a question and concern and I addressed it in the best way I could, with the help of professionals- psychologists of both alcoholics and psychologists of children.

I wasn't "giving myself an out"I was presenting the reality of alcoholism and doing my best to reassure my child that although my ultimate goal is to never drink again, should it happen he would be taken care of.


"mommy, what if aliens come into our house and try to cut out my organs?"
"My love, that is not going to happen, but if it did I would be right here to protect you and fight them off"

There's a million examples of things we don't want to/know won't happen but to a child they are real and scary and these concerns must be addressed.

lessgravity

Mera I'm rooting for you as much has anyone, but I also have to say that I see the same aspects that Scott is identifying in the language that you're using. I'm not talking about what you would say to your child, I know you are trying your best with a difficult situation. But this idea that you might have a drink again. Even just saying that out loud.

You can never drink again. And you will never drink again if you make the choice each and every time you need to choose. It's merely a choice between yes or no in the end. You need to come to the full, deep and absolute realization that you can never have another drink in your life. I'm not trying to pile on. I just want you to come out of this whole, it's clear you need it and your family does to.

fini

i think what is happening here in this thread now is a showing up of the vastly different views of alcoholism: the one of entirely personal choice to drink or not drink ever, and the one of "untreated" disease/condition where "at times the alcoholic has no defense against the first drink".
not just different view, but different experience and decisions arising from it.
Mera, i wish you well. i understand why you talked with your son as you did.
you wanted to be realistic.
whether we agree with your view or attitude as far as what is realistic is really not the point .
you are where you are to decrease or eliminate the chance of relapse in a way you choose to go about it.
personally, i believe this is where our choices are, where our power is: in regards to how we choose to journey forward.

MindfulMan

Rehab worked for me, along with a number of other strategies. In inpatient, I admitted to myself that there is no way a "normal" drinker ends up in medical detox andd rehab with only vague memory of how I got there. Then the powerless over alcohol, at least after taking that first drink. So the only way I could be sure that I won't end up back in rehab is to never take that first sip. Ever. Under no circumstances. In cognitive based IOP, we did an exercise where we made four lists. The pros of drinking, the cons of drinking, the pros of not drinking, and the cons of not drinking

I went through my drug 'n drunkalogogues enough to push the point to myself that I never wanted to get to that point. More importantly, I experienced being sober long enough to realize how much better I was for every moment of every day. The feeling of being intoxicated has no appeal to me any more.

Just my two cents. Only you can stop lifting a drink to your lips. How to get there and maintain sobriety is just keeping you sober. Unless and until you conclusively decide that you are no longer a drinker, no rehab or meetings or shrink is going to get or keep you sober. You can do that. Many just on this site who reached lower points in their addiction have remained sober for years or indefinitely. Are they stronger than you, smarter than you, better than you? Of course not. They have used many different methods to get there. What they all have in common is a commitment and a decision to stop

You can absolutely do this. It is within your power. Don't complicate it. Take your power and use it, whether you see it in yourself or outside of yourself as some "higher power." Those are just details.

Meraviglioso

I thought about this all night and hesitate to respond because I have a steadfast rule t not argue on the internet. But I felt I had to defend myself here.

I was not giving myself an "out" by talking to my son. I have no plans of drinking ever again. I am taking my recovery very seriously to the level that I chose to return to rehab a second time after a few, minimal relapses. I'm doing AA, have a sponsor, seeing a psychologist, seeing a psychiatrist, going to outpatient rehab and submitting voluntarily to urine tests twice a week. I am serious about this.

But a child with concerns of "what if you do drink again mommy?" deserves an honest answer. I could answer "It will never happen" which is what I feel in my heart. But I also cannot predict the future. You Scott could relapse, less, Anna, Dee, any of us here potentially could drink one day. Now we all know that you all are nt going to do that, but..... potentially... there is a possibility that it could happen. There is also that possibility for me, no matter how determined and firm I am in my commitment. My son's question was legitimate, not just for his age, but for any loved one of an alcoholic. And his question deserved an honest answer. Which I gave him. Admitting that I would still love him and we would seek help together if I relapsed does not mean that I plan on relapsing or am giving myself and out.

Dee74

Not sure why I got a namecheck, Mera, but I can absolutely say I'll never drink again.

I've worked hard - really hard - I continue to work hard, and I'm not the person I used to be.

I'm not trying to be arrogant here, or full of hubris - I really believe that I will not drink again.

I try to share the absolute definitiveness of that statement every day with you, and all of you guys here in Newcomers.

When I arrived here I had no confidence in myself either. The guys and gals who were here then with decades of recovery and absolute certainty about their future were my heroes - and their example helped me get to where I am today,.

Ordinary people doing an extraordinary thing.

I'm not trying to put myself above you or anyone else either or use my sober time as a club - it's simply my fondest wish that you get to know that certainty too.

The other people you namechecked don't need me to defend their recovery, so I'll leave that.

I'll advise again though that you're better letting this point of pride go.

The best outcome for you, for us as a community rooting for you, and for your family, is you never drink again.

I think everyone is making that same point, just in different ways.

I have no comment to make on what you tel your kids. They;re your kids and I'm not a parent.

If you doubt yourself from time to time, thats fine.
Fear is pretty much part and parcel of this thing for a while.

But...give it all you have. Leave no stone unturned.

You're another of those ordinary people who can do extrordinary things - if they want to - and fear be damned

again, best of luck to you.

D

tomsteve

since youre in rehab, i highly encourage you to show this thread to the people helping you so they can help you learn why you have to continually defend your decision.
i would think that, being in rehab, it would be the best time to stay off of the www and focus on your recovery.

Meraviglioso

I am honestly speechless at the responses here.

First, this rehab allows computers and phones and there are blocks of time during the day in which I can use the computer, read, sleep, whatever. My checking in on SOBERRECOVERY is not an indication that I am not taking rehab seriously. I'm not watching videos on Facebook or shopping n amazon. Give me a break please.

Secondly, Dee, I name checked you because you have a solid period of recovery and are absolutely certain you will never drink again, and I am certain of that too. As are the others I mentioned (among many others here). My point is I can be certain of this decision. And I am. But my young child deserves an answer to his question of "what if?" My response (maybe I didn't quote it word for word in my initial post) was "it won't happen again" but I continued- to address his real and legitimate concern that if it did we would deal with it and he would be taken care of and safe- with his father, grandparents, me back in rehab, whatever the case.

Kids don't deserve to be lied to. "Mommy, I'm scared someone will come in my school with a gun and kill people" Would you answer "honey, that will never happen, don't worry" or would you address the concern in an age appropriate matter? "honey, that is very unlikely to happen. Your school is safe with guards and locked doors, but if it did happen you need to follow the orders of your teachers to stay safe"

Lastly, I cannot show this thread to my psychologists here, they don't speak English.

To conclude, I generally try to be very cordial and calm on any internet site, but this hit a big nerve, I am under immense stress having all kinds of medications added/changed/deleted, in addition to the fact that I feel like a massive piece of worthless **** having had to come to ******* rehab for a second time.

Have a nice Sunday everyone.

Dee74

I'm sorry you feel bad but I'll get to that in a minute.

You made a decision, or a series of decisions - no matter what people think of those decisions, they are made.

They're done.

Its the decisions you're making now and the ones in future that really count.

Old drinking me would have argued any topic to a standstill because being seen to be right was about the only thing I had left to hang on to.

Sober me doesn't mind being thought of as wrong (or actually being wrong) if letting go keeps me focused on being the best human being I can be.

If I can keep that focus I think you should too Mera?

Those thoughts that tell you you're worthless and whatever - those thoughts that tell you to feel bad or small or stressed when people disagree with you...

they're the enemy here.

Thats the fodder that keeps an AV alive - and thats what you need to overcome.
I believe you can do it.

Not sure if you saw this
https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...surrender.html (A Different Way of Looking at Surrender?)

Sometimes to win the battle you have to let down all the defences and trust you're doing the right thing.

D

Vinificent

Wishing you the best with this leg of your journey. Please do not let the mind set of others set you back in your recovery. As a parent, it is always difficult to choose the right words when discussing topics with your children that are important to their core development. Your response to your son was completely selfless; you realized the gravity and implications of what he was asking you, and you did your best to answer him honestly and put his mind at ease as he sought to understand the situation. Reassuring him that what you are doing is a good thing, despite the fact that it takes you away from him for a short time in the grand scheme, is what is important.

As as a parent, it was obvious to me you were putting his need for reassurance over a hard and fast rhetoric, and I also do not think I could ever look in my child’s eyes and say I will never drink again...NOT because there is a part of ME that believes I will, but because it is a reality of addiction itself. It seems he already understands there is always that possibility and needs to be assured that if it happened again, as it had previously, that there would still be options for you to get better.

Meraviglioso

Thank you so much for these words. They made me cry.

lessgravity

Mera we all, truly, want you to get better. As a fellow parent i know the pain and difficulty you have been through and remain stuck in. I also know that you're just getting your best to be open and honest with your children. But I also know that entertaining the possibility of a future relapse is a kind of acquiescence to considering picking up.again. I also truly believe I will never relapse and drink again, I know my life is not tenable when I do, there's no choice, I'm sober. And it's only that allowance on your behalf that you might drink again that I was effected by reading. Not looking to argue, I'd hesitate to say none of the people you mentioned want to argue or upset you, but I'd be remiss if I didn't tell you what I thought.
​​​​​​I'm pulling hard for you.

Hawkeye13

Hi Mera;

I agree, all of us are in your corner and want you to finally beat this addiction for good.

I know you can do it--I think Dee's point about the way the deep-seated feelings of not being good enough are at the core of my addiction as well.

In fact, when I drank sometimes I'd smack my head against the wall or hit myself when to stop the pain of self-loathing that would well up.

I don't know how much of that you have inside, but I've been reading your posts for years now and I do see some signs of this in you when you have posted and been drinking.

Getting at the heart of that while you have the extra support would really get you to the next step towards wholeness in my view.

I also want to say that as a child of an alcoholic mother, I appreciate the truth you told your son. I think that took courage and I'm sure it hurt to say it.

But as others have said, the past is done and the future is yours and can be whatever you create.

Eddiebuckle

Hi Mera,

One of the things my first sponsor told me was “never forget your last drink, or chances are you haven’t had it yet.”

As you pointed out, the reality of addiction is that if any one of us picks up another drink (or whatever ones DOC happens to be) there’s no telling where it will end, including death. That is the reality of our situation, and it is something we all need to acknowledge – not tacitly, we need to do so explicitly. That is what “powerless” means in AA’s first step: once we start drinking/using, all bets are off. I had a hard time wrapping my head around this at 43 when I went to rehab; as the mother to your young son it is incumbent upon you to explain this in a way that he can understand and know what to do if it were to occur. In my opinion, you have accomplished this as well as anyone could expect.

The flip side of this issue is self-care. At the end of the day, this really is what long sobriety is all about. Another nugget I heard early in sobriety was “if you want to get sober, first you’re going to have to quit drinking.” Sobriety is not abstinence; sobriety is learning to live happily without our DOC. Relapse is basically saying “I’m not happy with this… I want to feel different, NOW.”

AA is the way that I came to understand and embrace sobriety. There are fabulous people who have accomplished the same by the many paths to sobriety that exist (I won’t list them so as not to leave any out… see the stickies for details). In my opinion, what ALL of those options require is a daily effort to support those things that enable you to live happily without your DOC. And the hardest part of the journey is the beginning, which is where you find yourself today. Do not let anyone or anything else divert your focus from the hard work in front of you today. Go to the classes, share and listen to those who have more time, be brutally honest about who you are and how you got here, and trust. There is nothing special about the folks who have managed to stay sober for long periods of time… they just surrendered and accepted that they had to do the work every day.

I want today to be your day, Mera. Nine years ago I considered suicide rather than sobriety, and to this day I am not entirely sure why I chose the way that I did, but I am eternally grateful for it.


Sending you love and support...

fgo

mera,
next to getting sober, parenting is the hardest job in the world.

entropy1964

Mera great job going to rehab again. I've been a few times myself....takes what it takes.

Parenting is so so hard. Oh my. I can't say I completely understand the point of some of the posts...I can say I would never tell my daughter I will never drink again. I just won't put it that way. And it has no bearing on my commitment to not drinking. I think it was fini that pointed out that the posts seem to be illustrating the 2 viewpoints prevalent on SR. AA vs rational. Kids hate uncertainty. I think that's one of the hardest aspects of having an alcoholic parent...the kid simply never knows what to expect. I think that's why young kids like to read the same book or watch the same movie, over and over. They know what will happen. With us? They don't. What your kid can depend on is what you told him. You won't ever stop seeking help. That is something that ca n be depended on. From where I'm sitting, that makes complete sense.

So soak it up. Even the crappy food....Ha! I'm such a picky eater....the food was always the worst part. But obviously not the point...and I know you get that completely. Rehab is one strange experience for sure. But it can also be very beneficial. I've always thought the most important part is after care...what to do and how when you get out.

Hang in there.

August252015

If my mom had told my 11, 14 or 20 yr old self "if I drink again I will [ insert anything here] for you...." I would have stopped believing her sincerity about sobriety INSTANTLY. Especially after her repeated tries.

And what carefully crafted, psych message et al was sought by her? Beyond anything I would have cared about, to say the least - and IMO...it would have been something SHE used to justify "appropriate" language that ... yep, gave her wiggle room.

That's just me.

Like Dee said, and from my personal experience and now great compassion for my mother as a grown alcoholic myself your story doesn't have to be one that turns out tragically.

Or that includes another relapse. "Minimal relapses"....red flag word to me. I just hear alcoholic thinking throughout your entire post.

I'd echo everything Scott said, Mera.

Hearing things I didn't like and rejecting them....was only bad for me and my commitment to permanent, total sobriety.

Sobriety just isn't an "-ish" proposition for me. And it finally stopped being one for my mom.

Rooting for you. I've always enjoyed reading your posts, appreciate your earnestness, and know you've got a lot of factors in your life....I also think that those things mean being straight with you is the kindest thing any of us can do here.

August252015

[ PS - Rereading the posts on the thread - it also occurred to me that rather than continuing to discuss this with us, take it to your counselors?? You may have already, but I know when something is keeping me up all night like you said this was, I might need perspectives different than those w/ whom I've been engaging. Just my thought.]

Delilah1

Hi Mera,

I'm glad you are having a positive experience in rehab. The 15-15-15 model is an interesting one, it will be a good opportunity to try out what you've learned, and then go back and reflect on what went well, and other supports you may feel you need.

Being a mom is the very best part of my life, and also the most challenging and important job I have. I now have 3 years and 2 months sober, and have focused the conversation with my kids around making healthy choices. I have two teenagers now, and I've had conversations with them about drinking, and let them know that I would prefer they choose not to drink in the future, I shared with them I wish I never had. They are 14 and 15 and both very involved in sports, so have not yet been in a situation where friends are drinking, but it will happen at some point, and we've had discussions on how to handle that. My parents never really had conversations about the effects alcohol can have on your physical or mental health, I wish they had. These are conversations you can choose to have with your boys as they get older. My son is 11, we have not had many conversations with him yet, but he takes medicine for Tourette's and OCD and we have talked about medicine being drugs that his body needs, but if I took them it wouldn't be okay.

I know it's hard to be away from them right now. Sending so much love your way, and looking forward to hearing more about rehab.

❤️Delilah