Alcohol use disorder vs alcoholic
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Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: UK
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Originally Posted by tomsteve 
imo, exactly what alcoholism would want someone with a drinking problem to be thinking about rather than solutions to a drinking problem.
Great point Tomsteve. My AV always loved to get me tilting at windmills. You are spot on!
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Join Date: May 2012
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Originally Posted by Beingsober
So what's the difference?
Alcoholics are dependent on alcohol and feel the need to drink every day or close to it.
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Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: US
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Originally Posted by Andante
"Alcohol Use Disorder" (AUD) is mainly a medical term. Being diagnosed with AUD opens the doors to various forms of treatment in a medical setting, as well as qualifying the patient for help with paying for this treatment from insurers who offer coverage for substance abuse. The diagnosis for AUD is determined by a medical professional, as guided by the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual (DSM).
"Alcoholism" these days is mainly an AA term, and provides a basis for identifying the problem and seeking the solutions offered by the AA program. It's a term both more vague and more restrictive than AUD. More vague because the "diagnosis" is up to you -- only you can decide if you are "alcoholic." More restrictive because in AA, the idea is that there is a line separating mere "problem drinkers" from "real alcoholics," and for the latter, no human agency can provide a cure.
In practical terms, the difference isn't really relevant. Labels are just labels. They don't actually mean anything. If you think you have a problem with alcohol and are ready to do whatever is required in order to remove it, then it doesn't really matter what you call yourself so long as you are honest, open, and willing in your pursuit of recovery.
"Alcoholism" these days is mainly an AA term, and provides a basis for identifying the problem and seeking the solutions offered by the AA program. It's a term both more vague and more restrictive than AUD. More vague because the "diagnosis" is up to you -- only you can decide if you are "alcoholic." More restrictive because in AA, the idea is that there is a line separating mere "problem drinkers" from "real alcoholics," and for the latter, no human agency can provide a cure.
In practical terms, the difference isn't really relevant. Labels are just labels. They don't actually mean anything. If you think you have a problem with alcohol and are ready to do whatever is required in order to remove it, then it doesn't really matter what you call yourself so long as you are honest, open, and willing in your pursuit of recovery.
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 847
Originally Posted by Beingsober
Do you think there is difference between "alcohol use disorder" and alcoholic?
Originally Posted by Beingsober
In aa, it's pretty much expected that you say "I'm an alcoholic" instead of saying "I have an alcohol use disorder" or "substance abuse problem"
Just what is your plan for your future use of alcohol, Beingsober?
Are you going to drink some more, or not?
DOS: 08-16-2012
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Central Iowa
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Originally Posted by Forward12
Binge/problem drinkers are usually weekend warriors, or perhaps only drink once or twice a month, but when they do, can not control themselves and drink into oblivion. They also are not dependent on alcohol.
Alcoholics are dependent on alcohol and feel the need to drink every day or close to it.
Alcoholics are dependent on alcohol and feel the need to drink every day or close to it.
I was told this, if you are not an Alcoholic (but rather a hard drinker) and drinking is your problem than you stop drinking and your life will get better. If you are an Alcoholic and you just stop drinking that your life will get worse and you will get more miserable because you have taken away your only solution to dealing with life. That is why an Alcoholic NEEDS some program of recovery to be successful and happy without drinking.
That is what I learned and once that information finally sunk in it made a big difference in helping me live a better life.
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Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: New Orleans, LA
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Tomsteve -
I just learned a lot from your cup post.
I've always differentiated patterns, & based my word-use on those distinctions. But you're right - chalice or teacup - still a cup.
I will say that I will remain hesitant to use the term with "normies" because in my experience there is a tremendous amount of bias & labeling. I have experienced that bias in a generalization that - if one identified as an addict or alcoholic - people believe you are not capable of any self-control, & have found that - in recovery - I'm powerfully grounded & responsible & want people to see that aspect of me.
I do often use the phrase "in recovery," but even that gets the occaisional eye-roll (even though I am proud of it).
I just learned a lot from your cup post.
I've always differentiated patterns, & based my word-use on those distinctions. But you're right - chalice or teacup - still a cup.
I will say that I will remain hesitant to use the term with "normies" because in my experience there is a tremendous amount of bias & labeling. I have experienced that bias in a generalization that - if one identified as an addict or alcoholic - people believe you are not capable of any self-control, & have found that - in recovery - I'm powerfully grounded & responsible & want people to see that aspect of me.
I do often use the phrase "in recovery," but even that gets the occaisional eye-roll (even though I am proud of it).
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
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Originally Posted by heartcore
Tomsteve -
I just learned a lot from your cup post.
I've always differentiated patterns, & based my word-use on those distinctions. But you're right - chalice or teacup - still a cup.
I will say that I will remain hesitant to use the term with "normies" because in my experience there is a tremendous amount of bias & labeling. I have experienced that bias in a generalization that - if one identified as an addict or alcoholic - people believe you are not capable of any self-control, & have found that - in recovery - I'm powerfully grounded & responsible & want people to see that aspect of me.
I do often use the phrase "in recovery," but even that gets the occaisional eye-roll (even though I am proud of it).
I just learned a lot from your cup post.
I've always differentiated patterns, & based my word-use on those distinctions. But you're right - chalice or teacup - still a cup.
I will say that I will remain hesitant to use the term with "normies" because in my experience there is a tremendous amount of bias & labeling. I have experienced that bias in a generalization that - if one identified as an addict or alcoholic - people believe you are not capable of any self-control, & have found that - in recovery - I'm powerfully grounded & responsible & want people to see that aspect of me.
I do often use the phrase "in recovery," but even that gets the occaisional eye-roll (even though I am proud of it).
im to a point in recovery that if the occasion occurs that i bring up that im an alcoholic,ex drunk, recovering alcoholic,etc and whoever im conversatin with has a problem with it, then they have a problem with it and its just that-their problem.
with all the labels i was given when i was a drunk and having been called just about everything short of human at onetime or another when i was a drunk,i might not even mind the label! just might be a compliment!
Join Date: Aug 2011
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Me: I tried to kill myself, with my children in the house, after years of drinking every day and taking benzos resulted in an alcohol induced psychotic break. I quit without identifying as "an alcoholic".
Actual real people's responses : Well, you weren't a real alcoholic in the first place. Musta just been a heavy drinker.
The idea that there is some other "ism" and if you don't self identify with it then you don't have the "real thing" is the kind of crap that keeps people drinking, sometimes to death.
Actual real people's responses : Well, you weren't a real alcoholic in the first place. Musta just been a heavy drinker.
The idea that there is some other "ism" and if you don't self identify with it then you don't have the "real thing" is the kind of crap that keeps people drinking, sometimes to death.
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Originally Posted by soberlicious
Me: I tried to kill myself, with my children in the house, after years of drinking every day and taking benzos resulted in an alcohol induced psychotic break. I quit without identifying as "an alcoholic".
Actual real people's responses : Well, you weren't a real alcoholic in the first place. Musta just been a heavy drinker.
The idea that there is some other "ism" and if you don't self identify with it then you don't have the "real thing" is the kind of crap that keeps people drinking, sometimes to death.
Actual real people's responses : Well, you weren't a real alcoholic in the first place. Musta just been a heavy drinker.
The idea that there is some other "ism" and if you don't self identify with it then you don't have the "real thing" is the kind of crap that keeps people drinking, sometimes to death.
I agree that it's inappropriate to impose this extremely specific interpretation of the term onto others who use it more liberally. Fortunately, as time goes by, I'm seeing less and less of this type of elitism and exclusivity.
I think most of us can agree that if identifying as an "alcoholic" helps motivate you to get sober, great -- and if you can get sober without identifying as such, great. It's just semantics.
Join Date: Aug 2011
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Originally Posted by Andante
I think most of us can agree that if identifying as an "alcoholic" helps motivate you to get sober, great -- and if you can get sober without identifying as such, great. It's just semantics.
I take issue with the notion of "alcoholism" and the idea that being abstinent is different than being "sober" and that "not drinking" is wayyyy different from actual recovery. While many may hold these beliefs and that's fine, it's ridiculous to tout them as fact.
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Join Date: Jan 2017
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I'm not a fan of labels. I certainly don't intend to make a blanket statement about AA, as I know there may be differences between various home groups, but in the group I first attended, they would barely acknowledge you unless you explicitly stated that you are an alcoholic. That turned me off.
At any rate, I tend to say that I "suffered from alcoholism" or am "in recovery from alcoholism" because that puts the power back in my hands and recognizes that I am a human being who will not be reduced to a label or enslaved to a social stigma.
ABW1
At any rate, I tend to say that I "suffered from alcoholism" or am "in recovery from alcoholism" because that puts the power back in my hands and recognizes that I am a human being who will not be reduced to a label or enslaved to a social stigma.
ABW1
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: St. Augustine, FL
Posts: 24
Yeah, what you want to call it isn't the issue. For me, I have a problem with alcohol. Call it an allergy, disease, lack of willpower/control whatever, all I know is that I used to have alcohol in my life, now alcohol has me. I'm alcohol's bitch and it is not enjoyable. I see normal people enjoying a beer or glass of whatever and that is fine for them but I'm just not one of those people any more. It doesn't matter what I call it.
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Hi beingsober
I'm gonna go straight past the label thing and bring it back to you.
I could never get anywhere with my problem until I accepted it existed.
Do you think you're closer to that now?
I also found that action beat thinking every time. I'm not saying thinking not important, but you can fool yourself that thinking about stuff is action.
I thought about alcoholism and addiction a whole lot...but I kept drinking while I did it...
that why I think action...doing everything you can to not taking that next drink...is more important than anything else.
I really hope it won't take you 15 years to find that acceptance of your problem like it did me.
D
I'm gonna go straight past the label thing and bring it back to you.
Originally Posted by Beingsober
Back at day one. When I quit (12 days prior) I definitely was not planning on quitting for good. And I thought I could just cut don for a while. But as I was trying to not drink, it was harder than I thought it would be. I also had some clarity that I definitely have a problem with alcohol.
So last night, I got super angry that I have a problem and that I probably can't ever drink like a normal person. And I basically said f this and got a bottle of wine. I said it was because I wanted to say goodbye. I wanted to know it was my last drink. But I realize this is all justification.
So last night, I got super angry that I have a problem and that I probably can't ever drink like a normal person. And I basically said f this and got a bottle of wine. I said it was because I wanted to say goodbye. I wanted to know it was my last drink. But I realize this is all justification.
I could never get anywhere with my problem until I accepted it existed.
Do you think you're closer to that now?
I also found that action beat thinking every time. I'm not saying thinking not important, but you can fool yourself that thinking about stuff is action.
I thought about alcoholism and addiction a whole lot...but I kept drinking while I did it...
that why I think action...doing everything you can to not taking that next drink...is more important than anything else.
I really hope it won't take you 15 years to find that acceptance of your problem like it did me.
D
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Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 66
Totally agree with @soberlicious
For me, there were always people drinking more, or doing worse stuff while drinking. I had to come to my own conclusion that I needed to stop and what I was doing wasn't working.
I'd tried doctors and counsellors and psychs of which not a single one suggested abstinence. That gave me a total free ticket. I always ended up in the same place though, hungover, hating life, drinking from the minute I got up, 'wondering' why it just wasn't working for me but then using that as an excuse to blame them for my problem.
Once I truly accepted that I couldn't drink, the label or the severity of my drinking compared to others didn't matter to me any more.
For me, there were always people drinking more, or doing worse stuff while drinking. I had to come to my own conclusion that I needed to stop and what I was doing wasn't working.
I'd tried doctors and counsellors and psychs of which not a single one suggested abstinence. That gave me a total free ticket. I always ended up in the same place though, hungover, hating life, drinking from the minute I got up, 'wondering' why it just wasn't working for me but then using that as an excuse to blame them for my problem.
Once I truly accepted that I couldn't drink, the label or the severity of my drinking compared to others didn't matter to me any more.
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