Soberwolf

You know this is what's known as an urge or craving right

When I see ppl arguing if they can moderate on a sobriety forum it always makes me think dude your alcoholic you just don't know it yet

Alcohol is very important to you as it once was to me difference is nowadays I realise alcohol isn't important in the slightest.. normal folk dont obsess over alcohol alcoholics obsess over alcohol

Whatever you decide to do if it becomes a problem know we will be here brother

PiratePrentice

To put my drinking problem another way- if I lived in a sort of vacuum and had a magical machine where I could push a button, and one beer would appear whenever I wanted it, I wouldn't be pushing the button very much. I may press it once or twice a week, if that. If I did push the button, I'd probably stop pushing it after I drank one beer.

Alas, such a thing doesn't exist. I have to constantly think about how much I want to drink and when I want to drink it. I constantly think about the process of going up and buying it. When I buy it, I buy an arbitrary amount, based on how much I think I'll want to drink that night. Then once I bring it back home, I'll look at it, and without drinking anything, I'll assess that I maybe need more, or that I'll have the opportunity to buy more, and I'll sometimes buy more. I often won't drink what I buy for several hours, because all I was concerned about was the purchasing of the beer. Then it will be time for bed, and I'll think, I need to drink all of this tonight so I don't have any left over tomorrow.

It's hard to describe. The magical machine I described would not be analogous to a fridge full of beer. Because I'd constantly be thinking about the amount I have and if I need more. It's just really funky.

Edit: this wasn't in response to you, Soberwolf. I'm typing on my iPad and not refreshing to see if someone else has posted while I'm typing.

EndGameNYC

I'm not picking on you personally, but you've addressed something that I believe is a disease of the heart. Or of the soul. Or whatever it is that you believe in. And it's an epidemic.

One of the biggest mistakes that people make, since at least the early 20th Century, is searching for a "middle ground." The fact is that doing so is much closer to settling for less than otherwise. Sure, there are times when it's best to "meet in the middle," but that's not what's at issue here.

Searching for or identifying a middle ground encourages intellectual laziness, discourages passion, and generally tends to make people, places and events average in quality. There is, for example, room for a range of perspectives on many issues, but not all perspectives are created equal.

Claiming that there is a middle ground for people who cannot control their drinking is like claiming there's a middle ground with flying since taking off from the second story migh not kill you.

You need to be careful about your accusation of "binary thinking." The fact that drinking or not is, for alcoholics, a "one or the other" proposition only reflects a couple of hundred years of experience and, more recently, decades of research.

There's a very good reason why you expected critical comments, and I've no doubt that you know what it is.

MIRecovery

You have been told by your physician to quit drinking because of serious liver damage but you continue to drink. I may be alienating you but I may also be saving your life.

The following was written 80 years ago and is just as true today as it was then

Chapter 3

MORE ABOUT ALCOHOLISM



MOST OF US have been unwilling to admit we were real alcoholics. No person likes to think he is bodily and mentally different from his fellows. Therefore, it is not surprising that our drinking careers have been characterized by countless vain attempts to prove we could drink like other people. The idea that somehow, someday he will control and enjoy his drinking is the great obsession of every abnormal drinker. The persistence of this illusion is astonishing. Many pursue it into the gates of insanity or death.
We learned that we had to fully concede to our innermost selves that we were alcoholics. This is the first step in recovery. The delusion that we are like other people, or presently may be, has to be smashed.
We alcoholics are men and women who have lost the ability to control our drinking. We know that no real alcoholic ever recovers control. All of us felt at times that we were regaining control, but such intervals-usually brief-were inevitably followed by still less control, which led in time to pitiful and incomprehensible demoralization. We are convinced to a man that alcoholics of our type are in the grip of a progressive illness. Over any considerable period we get worse, never better.

Maudcat

There is a lot of stuff in your head. Gotta be hard to turn it off sometimes. I hope this forum is helpful to you. It is to me. Good luck. Peace.

sg1970

Pirate,

You say that your obsession is with purchasing the alcohol but in this case it is about going to a wedding reception and drinking. That doesn't add up.

It is possible to be obsessed with alcohol. I was and getting obsessed with recovery is what saved my butt. I had to be obsessed with recovery in the beginning. Then, once I got my legs under me, I was able to find balance.

tomsteve

one last question,pirate:

what does your therapist say about your plan for the reception?

PurpleKnight

This is the second post of this sort I've responded to this evening!!

First off I wouldn't go, it's Week 1 and that's pretty early in carving out your new Sober life, however if you must go get a plan together now, start making preparations for making it through until you can excuse yourself.

Lastly at want point has having a "few drinks" become alright? . . . as I mentioned on another thread, don't compromise your Sobriety for anyone or anything.

This is your life decision, and it's important, don't throw it away over a social occasion that to be frank, are a dime a dozen, weddings come and go . . . this is not a priority, Sobriety is your priority!!

People trying to fit square pegs into round holes never works, I tried to moderate for a long time, tried to make the pieces fit, and they didn't . . . there's a lot of great wisdom already posted on this thread!!

SoberLife90

If you take a drink at that wedding you may never get sober again. Alcoholics can't just have a few on the weekends. Once we take a drink we crave more. You are going to fail the same way you always have if you take a drink.

shirlygirly

The logic is binary because it's science. Either you're an alcoholic or you're not an alcoholic, and alcoholism is a disease. Like all diseases, alcoholism has symptoms. One of those symptoms is the inability to control one's drinking. So once you start, it's hard to stop, or you vow to not drink, and you drink.

For alcoholics, there is no moderation. The woman who founded Moderation Management drove drunk, killed two people, and then committed suicide. That's what the middle ground looks like.

I get the wedding thing. In fact, I lost 3-4 weeks of sobriety many times over the wedding excuse. Some of those weddings led me to years more of drinking without trying to stop. I even vowed at one point to only drink at weddings. Then I'd drink at a wedding, miss drinking, and start drinking on weekends again. I'd vow to drink only one night of the weekend. Then both nights. Then Thursday and Sunday. Thank god I got sober before I was drinking seven days a week.

Since actually getting sober, I've been to a ton of weddings. In fact, I'm getting married in 2 1/2 weeks. Before getting sober I figured I could stop drinking forever...except at my own wedding so I could have champagne. Thank god 3 1/2 years of sobriety has taught me that that idea is absolute INSANITY. Drinking is literally the last thing that's crossed my mind through this whole planning process. We have an open bar and I have zero desire to drink.

If you want to get sober, don't drink.

Dee74

After she left MM, and rejected the concept of moderation.
I'm ok with people using examples but lets make them relevant ones.

There are a thousand genuine moderation horror stories on these boards.

D

shirlygirly

Not trying to argue, just trying to clarify: Isn't the point of Moderation Management to moderate your drinking...permanently? I had periods where I consciously tried to moderate my drinking and was able to moderate it more so than I could during other periods in my life. They were like waves of "successful" drinking in moderation, followed by waves of a progressively worsened disease. So while moderation worked for me temporarily, it never worked permanently. I'd have a moderation plan, it would sometimes work, and then it was followed by periods of binge drinking and all that binge drinking brings. Then back to a moderation plan. Then back to binge drinking.

Dee74

That's the object of MM as far as I know, yeah.
I've never been a member. It would kill me.

I'm not promoting moderation at all.

but...to suggest that Kishline drove the wrong way and killed other people that night because she was practicing moderation is misleading.

She was back in AA when that happened but I've never seen anyone blame AA .

It's not only misleading - its unnecessary because there are many other genuine cases of moderation attempts leading to tragedy.

It's not a cautionary tale about moderation, it's a cautionary tale about drinking full stop.

D

Lightning Bug

You seem defensive about your drinking. Are you trying to convince us that you aren't an alcoholic? Or yourself?

You have 4 days and you are already planning on blowing it. I have read many of your posts and replies and I didn't expect to see one justifying drinking, transferring responsibility for it from yourself to your mental disorder, and minimizing your alcohol abuse enough to suggest moderation is ok. You have posted some thought provoking, encouraging and logic based posts that do not promote drinking of any kind. Surprised to read this thread now.

I think you have already decided to drink. I hope you change your mind.

Dee74

Back to the topic

I went to a school reunion in 2004 - decided to forget about my attempts not to drink and have a night off by having one or two drinks to cut back my anxiety.

It was 2 and a half years before I stopped drinking again - some of the most destructive drinking I'd ever been through,

I don't believe recovery is something you can pay lip service to - you're either all in - or you're not.

You either accept you have a problematic and toxic relationship with alcohol...or you don't.

It's a constant, not an elective.

Just as you can't be a little bit pregnant don't believe we can 'take nights off' from trying to stay sober.

Pure AV. You could use that in a textbook.

We have no control, PP.

I used to think, because I could 'drink like a gentleman' sometimes, that I had 'control'.

The fact I could never count on that gentlemanly outcome, or the fact that there were many other hundreds of not thousands of times where one drink led to massive embarrassment and shame and sometime great danger, never seemed to register back then.

Sometimes I simply got lucky.

The delusion you're under right now that you have some kind of control you can switch on or off, is simply not true.

It was never the last drink that caused all the trouble - it was the first...once that was consumed all bets were off and all my good intent vanished.

Go back and read your first post PP - that would be what you're inviting back into your life with those 'few drinks'.

D

BD84

Read all my post. Especially the 2/8/16 thread. Then you will see the planning to drink is not going to end well.

MrPL

Hi Pirate,

Look, end of the day you have to do whatever it is that will make you happier. If you truly know you are not an alcoholic and can have a couple of drinks at the reception and then back to normal business then great, go for it.

But you are in a forum full of people (including me) who have failed so miserably at moderating that the concept doesn't even exist anymore, it s either staying sober or back to square one.

The one thing I categorically disagree with is what your therapist said. In my opinion obsessing with something that is healthy for you and will only bring good things is far from a problem, but once again that s my opinion and you may well see it different.

Bottom line is you are the only one who can tell the right thing to do, but make sure you are listening to the true, honest, real you, not your AV.

P

PiratePrentice

Didn't read any of these responses, and I turned off notifications for this thread, because it was just feeding into my mindset of worrying about drinking at the reception. Just thought I'd update you.

I had three beers over the course of four hours. One before food was served and two after. Just regular cans of PBR (are they even 12oz's?). Only reason I had three was because a friend was going over to the bar and asked if any of us needed another drink. I said sure, because mine was half full, and I didn't feel like squeezing through chairs to go get another one (it was a really tight situation). The groom came over and wanted to do a shot with our table. So I did a shot of whiskey. But after I had eaten a huge meal. Other than that, three beers. It was an open bar, and people were going crazy with it. Even at my table alone, I drank less than anyone else. Everyone else was either drinking six/seven beers or hard liquor or wine. It didn't even occur to me to take advantage of or abuse the open bar. Alcohol wasn't on my mind, because I had been off SR all week, and I got rid of the obsession. Came home around 8:30, and I didn't go up to get any more beer, even though I could have. I don't imagine I'm going to drink again in the foreseeable future.

So, I don't want to promote drinking in moderation, but it worked well enough for me last night. I had no issues- just focused my attention on the reception itself and talking to old friends (who were drinking a lot more than me). I didn't make a concerted effort to drink a socially acceptable amount (not even that for a reception with an open bar). It just happened.

Technically, if we're talking complete abstinence, I'm back to Day One. But, by no stretch of the imagination am I counting last night against me. I think my therapist was right in telling me to stay off SR. I think not reading or posting about alcohol is what stopped me from obsessing about it and is what got me through last night.

But, yeah, no issues. The obsession was gone. Thought I'd update everyone.

Soberwolf

When one is too many a thousand is never enough

What made you think alcohol was important enough to drink again did you miss it because if you did thats a massive red flag

This is your life don't let alcohol sell you short

Lightning Bug

Just me but if I planned it and did it I am counting it. I hope you don't leave SR, your input us valuable and there is so much we can teach each other.