Blown it already. Pathetic.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 748
Originally Posted by Jsbodhi 
AA isn't for everyone, you just gotta find out what works for you.
I've been to AA and I felt like it just made me want to drink, but I'll stop in every once in a while to listen to a speaker because I like listening to people tell stories
What do you do? What helps you?
I've been to AA and I felt like it just made me want to drink, but I'll stop in every once in a while to listen to a speaker because I like listening to people tell stories
What do you do? What helps you?
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: CO, USA
Posts: 145
Every mistake made is an opportunity to learn! Take this and use it so you'll be more successful next time. Feeling bad about it just generates more self-pity, which in turn just feeds that alcoholic voice. You've got this! Just keep reaching out and working on it best you can.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 4,251
Originally Posted by Fabat50
I live in a major wine region in France. Here people drink period. You drink too much? Whatever... this is Southern Europe... Latin... people don't care about excessive drinking.. drink driving... culturally... it's the norm. I went to the one AA meeting here which is held the first Tuesday of the month and sat with a homeless guy, a mentally deranged woman and another person... yes just the 4 of us. We listened to the guy at the front "talking" and I believe he was stoned. I will never go back.
(But I totally agree with you... drinking will not bring my car back not help me resolve my problems efficiently)
(But I totally agree with you... drinking will not bring my car back not help me resolve my problems efficiently)
Like you I also thought people did not care about excessive drinking. When I initially started to get very serious about quitting drinking I was advised against going to AA or seeking help. One person even told me that it would be better to be known as a drunk than to be seen going into the outpatient rehab center or an AA meeting. I was told over and over to just "drink less", "drink water in between glasses of wine" "just control [my]self" etc etc. Only after years of continued stops and starts at quitting, uncontrolled drinking, blackouts, dangerous behavior and generally making a fool of myself and risking losing everything, and absolutely begging, pleading and crying for help did those closest to me realize that the rehab center and AA actually were better options for me.
And the thing is, it is our denial as alcoholics that tells us that people don't care because it is France or Italy. Actually people do care and do find excessive drinking inappropriate and obnoxious even if they don't define it as a problem in the same way other nationalities do. I have alienated a number of people due to my drinking. I have also had a number of people sigh in relief when I said I was seeking help and trying to quit.
You may also notice that the French drink at nearly every occasion. I have seen Italians having a little splash of grappa in their morning coffee, wine with lunch, wine with dinner, huge aperetivo culture, after dinner drinks brought out for free at the restaurant, yet I very rarely see Italians out of control or drunk. I think the French, like Italians, consider wine and alcohol a part of the meal, not something just to get drunk on. They may enjoy wine regularly, but do so in a very reasonable way.
There is also scientific evidence to explain this. In the book "Under the Influence: A Guide to the Myths and Realities of Alcoholism" starting on page 43 there is a section titled "Ethnic Susceptibilities to Alcohol" If we can ignore the fact that it refers to people from Asian nations as "Orientals" (gasp! the book was published in 1981) the rest of the section is very interesting.
It starts out saying "Extreme differences in alcoholism rates have been found among various ethnic groups. For example, Jews and Italians have low alcoholism rates, about 1 percent, while at the other extreme, Native Americans have extraordinarily high rates, somewhere around 80-90 percent. Once again, physical factors- not psychological, social or cultural factors- explain these different ethnic susceptibilities to alcohol."
It then goes on to describe a study by doctors at Harvard Medical School describing the different ways various ethnic groups process alcohol in the body.
Next it adds: "Another interesting finding of recent research is the discovery that a direct relationship exists between the length of time and ethnic groups has been exposed to alcohol and the rate of alcoholism within that group. Jews and Italians, for example, have had access to large amounts of alcohol for more than 7,000 years, and their rate of alcoholism is very low. Alcohol was first introduced in quantity to the northern European countries, including France, Ireland, and the Scandinavian countries, some 1,500 years ago, and their rates of alcoholism are relatively higher there. Native Americans, who suffer from extremely high alcoholism rates, did not have large supplies of alcohol until approximately 300 years ago. these differences of susceptibility are exactly what we should expect given the fact that alcoholism is a hereditary disease. The implication is that the longer an ethnic group is exposed to alcohol, the lower its members' susceptibility to alcoholism. This relationship is consistent with the principle of natural selection whereby those people with a high genetic susceptibility are eliminated over many generations, resulting in a lower susceptibility rate for the entire group."
This all depends on you personally believing in the disease modal of addiction, that you, and I, and others like us have an incurable, yet treatable and manageable disease. I do believe that and I found the book both fascinating and helpful. I was particularly intrigued by the sections on ethnic differences as I could not wrap my mind around the fact that Italians seemed to drink at every occasion yet it was always ME who was drunk.
I finally did go to the rehab center and I finally did got to AA. Like your town, my town only has one meeting available. It meets once a week, also on a Tuesday and is frequented by 3 or 4 people. It does not seem to follow the general "standards" of AA that I have read about and personally experienced when I briefly explored AA in the US. Just a few people, light a candle, read from the big book, then read from another book, then we go around the room and say how we are doing. There is no talk or steps or sponsors. But you know what? For that hour and a half a week I am guaranteed not to drink. Occasionally I hear something that sticks in my mind. Or maybe Alessandro will be there with his horrible shakes and very real evidence of the kindling effect and it reminds me what is waiting for me if I don't getmyshittogether NOW.
The rehab center is full of people way further down on the scale than I am. At first they could not even believe that I had walked in there on my own. They said that I was one of only a handful of people who had come in on their own free will without being mandated by the courts. I walk in each time with my head high though and in solidarity with the others there. I never feel like they completely "get" me. When the psychologist has me read silly books about "finding the wild woman within and embracing her" or has me make a list of 50 positive attributes about myself I don't feel like I am really getting to the bottom of my addiction.
But, but but but, despite not being perfect, cure-all solutions, the rehab center, the AA, my private psychologist, my personal readings and meditations, my medication regimen, SR and the support of my family and close friends all add up to a decent network that, God/Goddess/Allah/Buddha/FlyingSpaghettiMonster willing, keeps me sober.
Simply put: 1. I understand where you are coming from and what you are feeling. 2. Don't write off AA or other forms of support just because they are not perfect.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 4,251
Originally Posted by Fabat50
Reading motivational stories from other people really helps me. So does getting out the house in the evening for a long walk or some exercise. But at the moment I have to force myself to do that, it seems like such hard work. Other than that I am not too sure what helps.. this is the first time I have made the decision to stop so everything is new.
I know it is hard at first to get started, but the more you get out there and do it the easier and more enjoyable it becomes. It can be a great tool in your recovery toolbox. It is also a very legitimate and, I have found, acceptable reason to turn down alcohol in social situations. "I'll have a water please" and if asked why you don't want wine (rare, no one really cares that much) the response "I am really focussing on some fitness goals right now" is respected tremendously.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: UK
Posts: 927
Originally Posted by Fabat50
I really do care. And I find this site amazing. I have only just begun to read through the incredible information and resources here... and I spoke to my Psy about the site today and he encouraged me to participate actively.
Next time I will post BEFORE the drink. At least this time I am posting DURING the drink and not the guilty confession the next day! Something slightly ironic about getting drunk whilst reading how to get sober articles.
Next time I will post BEFORE the drink. At least this time I am posting DURING the drink and not the guilty confession the next day! Something slightly ironic about getting drunk whilst reading how to get sober articles.
I'm only 37 days sober but I reached out for help WHILE I WAS STILL DRINKING instead of waiting till I got sober... What an amazing concept I had never considered before and it is what you are doing now! Keep reading, keep posting and I believe something will click for you too. For me it was making an appointment with my doctor, getting a home and dry detox organised and getting prescribed acamprasate to help with cravings = they recommend up to 6 tablets a day, sometimes I forget to take 2, but psychologically I feel like I've got support.
Good luck, you can do it!!!
Member
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: UK
Posts: 927
Originally Posted by Meraviglioso
I completely understand what you are saying. I live in Italy and it is wine wine wine all the time.
Like you I also thought people did not care about excessive drinking. When I initially started to get very serious about quitting drinking I was advised against going to AA or seeking help. One person even told me that it would be better to be known as a drunk than to be seen going into the outpatient rehab center or an AA meeting. I was told over and over to just "drink less", "drink water in between glasses of wine" "just control [my]self" etc etc. Only after years of continued stops and starts at quitting, uncontrolled drinking, blackouts, dangerous behavior and generally making a fool of myself and risking losing everything, and absolutely begging, pleading and crying for help did those closest to me realize that the rehab center and AA actually were better options for me.
And the thing is, it is our denial as alcoholics that tells us that people don't care because it is France or Italy. Actually people do care and do find excessive drinking inappropriate and obnoxious even if they don't define it as a problem in the same way other nationalities do. I have alienated a number of people due to my drinking. I have also had a number of people sigh in relief when I said I was seeking help and trying to quit.
You may also notice that the French drink at nearly every occasion. I have seen Italians having a little splash of grappa in their morning coffee, wine with lunch, wine with dinner, huge aperetivo culture, after dinner drinks brought out for free at the restaurant, yet I very rarely see Italians out of control or drunk. I think the French, like Italians, consider wine and alcohol a part of the meal, not something just to get drunk on. They may enjoy wine regularly, but do so in a very reasonable way.
There is also scientific evidence to explain this. In the book "Under the Influence: A Guide to the Myths and Realities of Alcoholism" starting on page 43 there is a section titled "Ethnic Susceptibilities to Alcohol" If we can ignore the fact that it refers to people from Asian nations as "Orientals" (gasp! the book was published in 1981) the rest of the section is very interesting.
It starts out saying "Extreme differences in alcoholism rates have been found among various ethnic groups. For example, Jews and Italians have low alcoholism rates, about 1 percent, while at the other extreme, Native Americans have extraordinarily high rates, somewhere around 80-90 percent. Once again, physical factors- not psychological, social or cultural factors- explain these different ethnic susceptibilities to alcohol."
It then goes on to describe a study by doctors at Harvard Medical School describing the different ways various ethnic groups process alcohol in the body.
Next it adds: "Another interesting finding of recent research is the discovery that a direct relationship exists between the length of time and ethnic groups has been exposed to alcohol and the rate of alcoholism within that group. Jews and Italians, for example, have had access to large amounts of alcohol for more than 7,000 years, and their rate of alcoholism is very low. Alcohol was first introduced in quantity to the northern European countries, including France, Ireland, and the Scandinavian countries, some 1,500 years ago, and their rates of alcoholism are relatively higher there. Native Americans, who suffer from extremely high alcoholism rates, did not have large supplies of alcohol until approximately 300 years ago. these differences of susceptibility are exactly what we should expect given the fact that alcoholism is a hereditary disease. The implication is that the longer an ethnic group is exposed to alcohol, the lower its members' susceptibility to alcoholism. This relationship is consistent with the principle of natural selection whereby those people with a high genetic susceptibility are eliminated over many generations, resulting in a lower susceptibility rate for the entire group."
This all depends on you personally believing in the disease modal of addiction, that you, and I, and others like us have an incurable, yet treatable and manageable disease. I do believe that and I found the book both fascinating and helpful. I was particularly intrigued by the sections on ethnic differences as I could not wrap my mind around the fact that Italians seemed to drink at every occasion yet it was always ME who was drunk.
I finally did go to the rehab center and I finally did got to AA. Like your town, my town only has one meeting available. It meets once a week, also on a Tuesday and is frequented by 3 or 4 people. It does not seem to follow the general "standards" of AA that I have read about and personally experienced when I briefly explored AA in the US. Just a few people, light a candle, read from the big book, then read from another book, then we go around the room and say how we are doing. There is no talk or steps or sponsors. But you know what? For that hour and a half a week I am guaranteed not to drink. Occasionally I hear something that sticks in my mind. Or maybe Alessandro will be there with his horrible shakes and very real evidence of the kindling effect and it reminds me what is waiting for me if I don't getmyshittogether NOW.
The rehab center is full of people way further down on the scale than I am. At first they could not even believe that I had walked in there on my own. They said that I was one of only a handful of people who had come in on their own free will without being mandated by the courts. I walk in each time with my head high though and in solidarity with the others there. I never feel like they completely "get" me. When the psychologist has me read silly books about "finding the wild woman within and embracing her" or has me make a list of 50 positive attributes about myself I don't feel like I am really getting to the bottom of my addiction.
But, but but but, despite not being perfect, cure-all solutions, the rehab center, the AA, my private psychologist, my personal readings and meditations, my medication regimen, SR and the support of my family and close friends all add up to a decent network that, God/Goddess/Allah/Buddha/FlyingSpaghettiMonster willing, keeps me sober.
Simply put: 1. I understand where you are coming from and what you are feeling. 2. Don't write off AA or other forms of support just because they are not perfect.
Like you I also thought people did not care about excessive drinking. When I initially started to get very serious about quitting drinking I was advised against going to AA or seeking help. One person even told me that it would be better to be known as a drunk than to be seen going into the outpatient rehab center or an AA meeting. I was told over and over to just "drink less", "drink water in between glasses of wine" "just control [my]self" etc etc. Only after years of continued stops and starts at quitting, uncontrolled drinking, blackouts, dangerous behavior and generally making a fool of myself and risking losing everything, and absolutely begging, pleading and crying for help did those closest to me realize that the rehab center and AA actually were better options for me.
And the thing is, it is our denial as alcoholics that tells us that people don't care because it is France or Italy. Actually people do care and do find excessive drinking inappropriate and obnoxious even if they don't define it as a problem in the same way other nationalities do. I have alienated a number of people due to my drinking. I have also had a number of people sigh in relief when I said I was seeking help and trying to quit.
You may also notice that the French drink at nearly every occasion. I have seen Italians having a little splash of grappa in their morning coffee, wine with lunch, wine with dinner, huge aperetivo culture, after dinner drinks brought out for free at the restaurant, yet I very rarely see Italians out of control or drunk. I think the French, like Italians, consider wine and alcohol a part of the meal, not something just to get drunk on. They may enjoy wine regularly, but do so in a very reasonable way.
There is also scientific evidence to explain this. In the book "Under the Influence: A Guide to the Myths and Realities of Alcoholism" starting on page 43 there is a section titled "Ethnic Susceptibilities to Alcohol" If we can ignore the fact that it refers to people from Asian nations as "Orientals" (gasp! the book was published in 1981) the rest of the section is very interesting.
It starts out saying "Extreme differences in alcoholism rates have been found among various ethnic groups. For example, Jews and Italians have low alcoholism rates, about 1 percent, while at the other extreme, Native Americans have extraordinarily high rates, somewhere around 80-90 percent. Once again, physical factors- not psychological, social or cultural factors- explain these different ethnic susceptibilities to alcohol."
It then goes on to describe a study by doctors at Harvard Medical School describing the different ways various ethnic groups process alcohol in the body.
Next it adds: "Another interesting finding of recent research is the discovery that a direct relationship exists between the length of time and ethnic groups has been exposed to alcohol and the rate of alcoholism within that group. Jews and Italians, for example, have had access to large amounts of alcohol for more than 7,000 years, and their rate of alcoholism is very low. Alcohol was first introduced in quantity to the northern European countries, including France, Ireland, and the Scandinavian countries, some 1,500 years ago, and their rates of alcoholism are relatively higher there. Native Americans, who suffer from extremely high alcoholism rates, did not have large supplies of alcohol until approximately 300 years ago. these differences of susceptibility are exactly what we should expect given the fact that alcoholism is a hereditary disease. The implication is that the longer an ethnic group is exposed to alcohol, the lower its members' susceptibility to alcoholism. This relationship is consistent with the principle of natural selection whereby those people with a high genetic susceptibility are eliminated over many generations, resulting in a lower susceptibility rate for the entire group."
This all depends on you personally believing in the disease modal of addiction, that you, and I, and others like us have an incurable, yet treatable and manageable disease. I do believe that and I found the book both fascinating and helpful. I was particularly intrigued by the sections on ethnic differences as I could not wrap my mind around the fact that Italians seemed to drink at every occasion yet it was always ME who was drunk.
I finally did go to the rehab center and I finally did got to AA. Like your town, my town only has one meeting available. It meets once a week, also on a Tuesday and is frequented by 3 or 4 people. It does not seem to follow the general "standards" of AA that I have read about and personally experienced when I briefly explored AA in the US. Just a few people, light a candle, read from the big book, then read from another book, then we go around the room and say how we are doing. There is no talk or steps or sponsors. But you know what? For that hour and a half a week I am guaranteed not to drink. Occasionally I hear something that sticks in my mind. Or maybe Alessandro will be there with his horrible shakes and very real evidence of the kindling effect and it reminds me what is waiting for me if I don't getmyshittogether NOW.
The rehab center is full of people way further down on the scale than I am. At first they could not even believe that I had walked in there on my own. They said that I was one of only a handful of people who had come in on their own free will without being mandated by the courts. I walk in each time with my head high though and in solidarity with the others there. I never feel like they completely "get" me. When the psychologist has me read silly books about "finding the wild woman within and embracing her" or has me make a list of 50 positive attributes about myself I don't feel like I am really getting to the bottom of my addiction.
But, but but but, despite not being perfect, cure-all solutions, the rehab center, the AA, my private psychologist, my personal readings and meditations, my medication regimen, SR and the support of my family and close friends all add up to a decent network that, God/Goddess/Allah/Buddha/FlyingSpaghettiMonster willing, keeps me sober.
Simply put: 1. I understand where you are coming from and what you are feeling. 2. Don't write off AA or other forms of support just because they are not perfect.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 748
Originally Posted by Meraviglioso
I completely understand what you are saying. I live in Italy and it is wine wine wine all the time.
Like you I also thought people did not care about excessive drinking. When I initially started to get very serious about quitting drinking I was advised against going to AA or seeking help. One person even told me that it would be better to be known as a drunk than to be seen going into the outpatient rehab center or an AA meeting. I was told over and over to just "drink less", "drink water in between glasses of wine" "just control [my]self" etc etc. Only after years of continued stops and starts at quitting, uncontrolled drinking, blackouts, dangerous behavior and generally making a fool of myself and risking losing everything, and absolutely begging, pleading and crying for help did those closest to me realize that the rehab center and AA actually were better options for me.
And the thing is, it is our denial as alcoholics that tells us that people don't care because it is France or Italy. Actually people do care and do find excessive drinking inappropriate and obnoxious even if they don't define it as a problem in the same way other nationalities do. I have alienated a number of people due to my drinking. I have also had a number of people sigh in relief when I said I was seeking help and trying to quit.
You may also notice that the French drink at nearly every occasion. I have seen Italians having a little splash of grappa in their morning coffee, wine with lunch, wine with dinner, huge aperetivo culture, after dinner drinks brought out for free at the restaurant, yet I very rarely see Italians out of control or drunk. I think the French, like Italians, consider wine and alcohol a part of the meal, not something just to get drunk on. They may enjoy wine regularly, but do so in a very reasonable way.
There is also scientific evidence to explain this. In the book "Under the Influence: A Guide to the Myths and Realities of Alcoholism" starting on page 43 there is a section titled "Ethnic Susceptibilities to Alcohol" If we can ignore the fact that it refers to people from Asian nations as "Orientals" (gasp! the book was published in 1981) the rest of the section is very interesting.
It starts out saying "Extreme differences in alcoholism rates have been found among various ethnic groups. For example, Jews and Italians have low alcoholism rates, about 1 percent, while at the other extreme, Native Americans have extraordinarily high rates, somewhere around 80-90 percent. Once again, physical factors- not psychological, social or cultural factors- explain these different ethnic susceptibilities to alcohol."
It then goes on to describe a study by doctors at Harvard Medical School describing the different ways various ethnic groups process alcohol in the body.
Next it adds: "Another interesting finding of recent research is the discovery that a direct relationship exists between the length of time and ethnic groups has been exposed to alcohol and the rate of alcoholism within that group. Jews and Italians, for example, have had access to large amounts of alcohol for more than 7,000 years, and their rate of alcoholism is very low. Alcohol was first introduced in quantity to the northern European countries, including France, Ireland, and the Scandinavian countries, some 1,500 years ago, and their rates of alcoholism are relatively higher there. Native Americans, who suffer from extremely high alcoholism rates, did not have large supplies of alcohol until approximately 300 years ago. these differences of susceptibility are exactly what we should expect given the fact that alcoholism is a hereditary disease. The implication is that the longer an ethnic group is exposed to alcohol, the lower its members' susceptibility to alcoholism. This relationship is consistent with the principle of natural selection whereby those people with a high genetic susceptibility are eliminated over many generations, resulting in a lower susceptibility rate for the entire group."
This all depends on you personally believing in the disease modal of addiction, that you, and I, and others like us have an incurable, yet treatable and manageable disease. I do believe that and I found the book both fascinating and helpful. I was particularly intrigued by the sections on ethnic differences as I could not wrap my mind around the fact that Italians seemed to drink at every occasion yet it was always ME who was drunk.
I finally did go to the rehab center and I finally did got to AA. Like your town, my town only has one meeting available. It meets once a week, also on a Tuesday and is frequented by 3 or 4 people. It does not seem to follow the general "standards" of AA that I have read about and personally experienced when I briefly explored AA in the US. Just a few people, light a candle, read from the big book, then read from another book, then we go around the room and say how we are doing. There is no talk or steps or sponsors. But you know what? For that hour and a half a week I am guaranteed not to drink. Occasionally I hear something that sticks in my mind. Or maybe Alessandro will be there with his horrible shakes and very real evidence of the kindling effect and it reminds me what is waiting for me if I don't getmyshittogether NOW.
The rehab center is full of people way further down on the scale than I am. At first they could not even believe that I had walked in there on my own. They said that I was one of only a handful of people who had come in on their own free will without being mandated by the courts. I walk in each time with my head high though and in solidarity with the others there. I never feel like they completely "get" me. When the psychologist has me read silly books about "finding the wild woman within and embracing her" or has me make a list of 50 positive attributes about myself I don't feel like I am really getting to the bottom of my addiction.
But, but but but, despite not being perfect, cure-all solutions, the rehab center, the AA, my private psychologist, my personal readings and meditations, my medication regimen, SR and the support of my family and close friends all add up to a decent network that, God/Goddess/Allah/Buddha/FlyingSpaghettiMonster willing, keeps me sober.
Simply put: 1. I understand where you are coming from and what you are feeling. 2. Don't write off AA or other forms of support just because they are not perfect.
Like you I also thought people did not care about excessive drinking. When I initially started to get very serious about quitting drinking I was advised against going to AA or seeking help. One person even told me that it would be better to be known as a drunk than to be seen going into the outpatient rehab center or an AA meeting. I was told over and over to just "drink less", "drink water in between glasses of wine" "just control [my]self" etc etc. Only after years of continued stops and starts at quitting, uncontrolled drinking, blackouts, dangerous behavior and generally making a fool of myself and risking losing everything, and absolutely begging, pleading and crying for help did those closest to me realize that the rehab center and AA actually were better options for me.
And the thing is, it is our denial as alcoholics that tells us that people don't care because it is France or Italy. Actually people do care and do find excessive drinking inappropriate and obnoxious even if they don't define it as a problem in the same way other nationalities do. I have alienated a number of people due to my drinking. I have also had a number of people sigh in relief when I said I was seeking help and trying to quit.
You may also notice that the French drink at nearly every occasion. I have seen Italians having a little splash of grappa in their morning coffee, wine with lunch, wine with dinner, huge aperetivo culture, after dinner drinks brought out for free at the restaurant, yet I very rarely see Italians out of control or drunk. I think the French, like Italians, consider wine and alcohol a part of the meal, not something just to get drunk on. They may enjoy wine regularly, but do so in a very reasonable way.
There is also scientific evidence to explain this. In the book "Under the Influence: A Guide to the Myths and Realities of Alcoholism" starting on page 43 there is a section titled "Ethnic Susceptibilities to Alcohol" If we can ignore the fact that it refers to people from Asian nations as "Orientals" (gasp! the book was published in 1981) the rest of the section is very interesting.
It starts out saying "Extreme differences in alcoholism rates have been found among various ethnic groups. For example, Jews and Italians have low alcoholism rates, about 1 percent, while at the other extreme, Native Americans have extraordinarily high rates, somewhere around 80-90 percent. Once again, physical factors- not psychological, social or cultural factors- explain these different ethnic susceptibilities to alcohol."
It then goes on to describe a study by doctors at Harvard Medical School describing the different ways various ethnic groups process alcohol in the body.
Next it adds: "Another interesting finding of recent research is the discovery that a direct relationship exists between the length of time and ethnic groups has been exposed to alcohol and the rate of alcoholism within that group. Jews and Italians, for example, have had access to large amounts of alcohol for more than 7,000 years, and their rate of alcoholism is very low. Alcohol was first introduced in quantity to the northern European countries, including France, Ireland, and the Scandinavian countries, some 1,500 years ago, and their rates of alcoholism are relatively higher there. Native Americans, who suffer from extremely high alcoholism rates, did not have large supplies of alcohol until approximately 300 years ago. these differences of susceptibility are exactly what we should expect given the fact that alcoholism is a hereditary disease. The implication is that the longer an ethnic group is exposed to alcohol, the lower its members' susceptibility to alcoholism. This relationship is consistent with the principle of natural selection whereby those people with a high genetic susceptibility are eliminated over many generations, resulting in a lower susceptibility rate for the entire group."
This all depends on you personally believing in the disease modal of addiction, that you, and I, and others like us have an incurable, yet treatable and manageable disease. I do believe that and I found the book both fascinating and helpful. I was particularly intrigued by the sections on ethnic differences as I could not wrap my mind around the fact that Italians seemed to drink at every occasion yet it was always ME who was drunk.
I finally did go to the rehab center and I finally did got to AA. Like your town, my town only has one meeting available. It meets once a week, also on a Tuesday and is frequented by 3 or 4 people. It does not seem to follow the general "standards" of AA that I have read about and personally experienced when I briefly explored AA in the US. Just a few people, light a candle, read from the big book, then read from another book, then we go around the room and say how we are doing. There is no talk or steps or sponsors. But you know what? For that hour and a half a week I am guaranteed not to drink. Occasionally I hear something that sticks in my mind. Or maybe Alessandro will be there with his horrible shakes and very real evidence of the kindling effect and it reminds me what is waiting for me if I don't getmyshittogether NOW.
The rehab center is full of people way further down on the scale than I am. At first they could not even believe that I had walked in there on my own. They said that I was one of only a handful of people who had come in on their own free will without being mandated by the courts. I walk in each time with my head high though and in solidarity with the others there. I never feel like they completely "get" me. When the psychologist has me read silly books about "finding the wild woman within and embracing her" or has me make a list of 50 positive attributes about myself I don't feel like I am really getting to the bottom of my addiction.
But, but but but, despite not being perfect, cure-all solutions, the rehab center, the AA, my private psychologist, my personal readings and meditations, my medication regimen, SR and the support of my family and close friends all add up to a decent network that, God/Goddess/Allah/Buddha/FlyingSpaghettiMonster willing, keeps me sober.
Simply put: 1. I understand where you are coming from and what you are feeling. 2. Don't write off AA or other forms of support just because they are not perfect.
Also, the constantly being surrounded by wine, apperitifs, great food and restaurants etc is torture for me. Wine is served at every meal everywhere. Including a week day working lunch. Its just torture. I went to pick up pizza the other day and my order was not quite ready.. the guy just poured a glass of wine and stuck it under my nose whilst I was standing waiting at he counter and said "cheers"!
. I am hoping to have bariatric weight loss surgery when I can get my drinking under control. To qualify one needs to see 2 psychiatrists, a nutritionalist, and about 5 other medical specialists. Only ONE medical person even actually asked about my drinking habits. When I shrugged and said "oh social" they just ticked the box and moved on. Not asking what 'social" means.
But I know all of this is just me making excuses. I just need to get on and do it.
I'm in the SW Bordeaux region. Not touched by those awful floods fortunately. And we are actually having a beautiful Indian Summer here so there is really no reason for me not to get out.
Thanks again for taking the time to post such an informative reply. And well done to you too for your journey.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 748
Originally Posted by foreverfuzzy
I spent about 6 months reading how to get sober and watching episodes of intervention while still drinking myself drunk every night, I learned yesterday it's the contemplative stage of change.
I'm only 37 days sober but I reached out for help WHILE I WAS STILL DRINKING instead of waiting till I got sober... What an amazing concept I had never considered before and it is what you are doing now! Keep reading, keep posting and I believe something will click for you too. For me it was making an appointment with my doctor, getting a home and dry detox organised and getting prescribed acamprasate to help with cravings = they recommend up to 6 tablets a day, sometimes I forget to take 2, but psychologically I feel like I've got support.
Good luck, you can do it!!!
I'm only 37 days sober but I reached out for help WHILE I WAS STILL DRINKING instead of waiting till I got sober... What an amazing concept I had never considered before and it is what you are doing now! Keep reading, keep posting and I believe something will click for you too. For me it was making an appointment with my doctor, getting a home and dry detox organised and getting prescribed acamprasate to help with cravings = they recommend up to 6 tablets a day, sometimes I forget to take 2, but psychologically I feel like I've got support.
Good luck, you can do it!!!
Member
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: UK
Posts: 927
I also had bariatric surgery last year, a gastric bypass, I've gone from 331 lb to 203 lb in a year. PM me for more details if you want?
Because I went privately they kind of glossed over my alcohol intake even though I was honest. I think the NHS wouldn't have approved it because of the risk of bariatric surgery patients going on to have alcohol problems, it's a real risk. I knew it before I had the surgery, I'd been a "heavy" drinker for over 20 years but the last year after the surgery is the most I've ever drunk, and also my body seemed to absorb / digest the alcohol differently resulting in me getting much drunker much quicker. I don't regret the surgery, I feel like a new person, life is so much easier for me now and now I'm 37 days sober I feel like I'm getting a handle on it all. ..
Because I went privately they kind of glossed over my alcohol intake even though I was honest. I think the NHS wouldn't have approved it because of the risk of bariatric surgery patients going on to have alcohol problems, it's a real risk. I knew it before I had the surgery, I'd been a "heavy" drinker for over 20 years but the last year after the surgery is the most I've ever drunk, and also my body seemed to absorb / digest the alcohol differently resulting in me getting much drunker much quicker. I don't regret the surgery, I feel like a new person, life is so much easier for me now and now I'm 37 days sober I feel like I'm getting a handle on it all. ..
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 748
Originally Posted by foreverfuzzy
I also had bariatric surgery last year, a gastric bypass, I've gone from 331 lb to 203 lb in a year. PM me for more details if you want?
Because I went privately they kind of glossed over my alcohol intake even though I was honest. I think the NHS wouldn't have approved it because of the risk of bariatric surgery patients going on to have alcohol problems, it's a real risk. I knew it before I had the surgery, I'd been a "heavy" drinker for over 20 years but the last year after the surgery is the most I've ever drunk, and also my body seemed to absorb / digest the alcohol differently resulting in me getting much drunker much quicker. I don't regret the surgery, I feel like a new person, life is so much easier for me now and now I'm 37 days sober I feel like I'm getting a handle on it all. ..
Because I went privately they kind of glossed over my alcohol intake even though I was honest. I think the NHS wouldn't have approved it because of the risk of bariatric surgery patients going on to have alcohol problems, it's a real risk. I knew it before I had the surgery, I'd been a "heavy" drinker for over 20 years but the last year after the surgery is the most I've ever drunk, and also my body seemed to absorb / digest the alcohol differently resulting in me getting much drunker much quicker. I don't regret the surgery, I feel like a new person, life is so much easier for me now and now I'm 37 days sober I feel like I'm getting a handle on it all. ..
Member
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: MN
Posts: 8,704
I believe there will come a time when you face adversity and you will go through the entire process soberly...and you will see it goes much better. My go-to was always a good drunk when SHTF, not anymore. Out of necessity I dealt with many a problem and could not afford to drink because of other obligations. You know what, it wasn't that bad. Much better in fact.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 4,251
Originally Posted by Fabat50
Thank you so much. What an amazing generous reply. I do agree with every word. And yes my friends and colleagues seem to drink all day everyday but are never ever drunk or out of control. My frustration is more about what I perceive to be as a lack of infrastructure here to deal with alcoholism. The AA I will try again but.. well.. it was just not serious. My Dr wants to put me in a rehab centre but despite the fact I live in a major city the nearest reputable one is a couple of hours drive away with a waiting list. Or if not I need to go to Paris.
Also, the constantly being surrounded by wine, apperitifs, great food and restaurants etc is torture for me. Wine is served at every meal everywhere. Including a week day working lunch. Its just torture. I went to pick up pizza the other day and my order was not quite ready.. the guy just poured a glass of wine and stuck it under my nose whilst I was standing waiting at he counter and said "cheers"!
. I am hoping to have bariatric weight loss surgery when I can get my drinking under control. To qualify one needs to see 2 psychiatrists, a nutritionalist, and about 5 other medical specialists. Only ONE medical person even actually asked about my drinking habits. When I shrugged and said "oh social" they just ticked the box and moved on. Not asking what 'social" means.
But I know all of this is just me making excuses. I just need to get on and do it.
I'm in the SW Bordeaux region. Not touched by those awful floods fortunately. And we are actually having a beautiful Indian Summer here so there is really no reason for me not to get out.
Thanks again for taking the time to post such an informative reply. And well done to you too for your journey.
Also, the constantly being surrounded by wine, apperitifs, great food and restaurants etc is torture for me. Wine is served at every meal everywhere. Including a week day working lunch. Its just torture. I went to pick up pizza the other day and my order was not quite ready.. the guy just poured a glass of wine and stuck it under my nose whilst I was standing waiting at he counter and said "cheers"!
. I am hoping to have bariatric weight loss surgery when I can get my drinking under control. To qualify one needs to see 2 psychiatrists, a nutritionalist, and about 5 other medical specialists. Only ONE medical person even actually asked about my drinking habits. When I shrugged and said "oh social" they just ticked the box and moved on. Not asking what 'social" means.
But I know all of this is just me making excuses. I just need to get on and do it.
I'm in the SW Bordeaux region. Not touched by those awful floods fortunately. And we are actually having a beautiful Indian Summer here so there is really no reason for me not to get out.
Thanks again for taking the time to post such an informative reply. And well done to you too for your journey.
I really understand your situation and your frustration. I have felt the same in my quest to find support. I really hesitate to generalize or criticize my new home (as of 10 years) but I also feel that they just do not get it or take it as seriously as I have seen done in other countries. But I live here and I have to find a solution within the boundaries that confine me. It will not be easy for you from the sound of it, but it is entirely possible. YOu have to continue to try, to press where needed and keep moving forward towards finding a solution that works for you. I saw you mention in another thread the possibility of online AA meetings. I have done that as well and really enjoyed them. They are also different from the face to face meetings in well organized areas, but I appreciated the ability to listen and communicate in my native tongue. As with the Italian meetings I am not sure how to quantify how much I took away from them, but I can say with certainty I didn't lose anything by being present for them.
One thing that helps me is reading books on alcoholism and biographies of alcoholics.
I also understand the difficulty and yes, torture of being surrounded by such a wine and alcohol fueled environment. I have had the exact same thing happen to me while waiting for a pizza. At restaurants most places bring out a complimentary glass of prosecco immediately upon being seated. those around me drink wine at every meal, every gathering, school events for my kids, festivals, etc etc etc. It really IS everywhere. But we can't change that so we have to find a way to work through it. At first it might be a good idea to avoid those situations if possible. It might not be possible for you to go to in patient rehab, but maybe you could create a safe haven for yourself for the first part of your journey. I have made my home alcohol free. I have, for the time being, ceased to host dinner parties in my home for that reason. I choose very selectively the activities and dinners I attend outside my home and do not go to my local bar anymore, despite it being the center of all social activity in my village. Right now I need to protect myself and it sounds like you do too. I think, I hope and have faith that eventually it will be easier for us to be out in these situations. But I am going to wait until I feel stronger to put myself out there.
It sounds like you have some weight to lose. Another tactic for you might be to shift a small part of your sobriety focus from the alcoholism part to something else, such as weight loss. Of course the main reason to not drink if that you are an alcoholic. This is my main reason for not drinking. But sometimes, if I am working through a craving I shift my thinking to other side benefits such as clearer skin, more success in the gym and dusting off my damaged memory. While not the main points of quitting, they are helpful benefits that give me a push to hang in there when I feel like caving and drinking. Cutting out the alcohol will definitely help keep your daily calorie intake down and could lead to shedding a few of those extra pounds while you explore other options such as exercise and surgery. Not being drunk/buzzed/hungover will also leave you with more time and energy to get into that exercise regimen that you are thinking about.
Just don't give up. Keep trying, even if you slip. Don't ever feel ashamed to come on here and talk it out. We have all either been there or are currently there. I assure you, everyone here understands and will support you.
Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,649
I too am an expat in Europe: have you checked if there is any English speaking AA?
You may have to drive a bit. Just a quick google under: "English Speaking AA France" and I found quite a few links.
Each group is unique and surprisingly different from the next. The international group meetings here are very different from Swedish AA, but I like both. We even have something called "Swenglish" where both languages are spoken.
Best of luck!
You may have to drive a bit. Just a quick google under: "English Speaking AA France" and I found quite a few links.
Each group is unique and surprisingly different from the next. The international group meetings here are very different from Swedish AA, but I like both. We even have something called "Swenglish" where both languages are spoken.
Best of luck!
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 245
You're not pathetic at all. This recovery process isn't easy and when situations like that occur I can understand the frustration. I had my car stolen some years back. It sucks. Hopefully things pan out better as time goes on.
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