Well it's been a month...
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Join Date: Jun 2014
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Serper, I'll be very curious to hear back from you and see how things work out. I was at a similar point not too long ago, resigned to the fact that once I drink I can't stop, so I dealt with it by having "scheduled" occasional binges. I could go on for days, weeks, and even a month here and there in between. For years, I did not accept abstinence as the only solution. Unfortunately, I had to hit some pretty rough lows to realize that moderation of any kind didn't work for me. Like you, I have to find out everything for myself. I hope your road is less painful. Many people here are trying to warn you about the nature of the beast and its progressiveness and sneakiness, but it's your choice and you decide where to go from here. Most everyone here sincerely wishes you well. Keep being aware and mindful and do check back!
We're all at different points in our journey and I agree that everyone should feel welcome here.
We're all at different points in our journey and I agree that everyone should feel welcome here.
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Binge drinking has the propensity to result in brain damage faster as well as more severely than chronic 'non stop' drinking (alcoholism), due to the neurotoxic effects of the repeated rebound withdrawal effects. The tolerance that occurs during chronic ('non-stop') drinking delays alcohol-related brain damage compared to binge drinking, which induces immediate and repeated insults to the brain. The neurotoxic insults to the brain are due to very large amounts of glutamate being released on a repeated basis, which over-stimulates the brain after each binge finishes, resulting in excitotoxicity.[8] The developing adolescent brain is thought to be particularly susceptible to the neurotoxic effects of binge drinking, with some evidence of brain damage occurring from drinking more than 4 or 5 drinks once or twice per month.[9]
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Originally Posted by readerbaby71 
Sometimes people aren't asking for advice. They just want to be heard.
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Originally Posted by ScottFromWI
Being honest with us is not really important - being honest with yourself is.
You say you've learned a lot this summer on SR. Try this - go back and read this post assuming that someone else wrote and ask yourself what advice you would give that person.
You say you've learned a lot this summer on SR. Try this - go back and read this post assuming that someone else wrote and ask yourself what advice you would give that person.
Touche'
Ok I went back and reread it. I would congratulate this person on their recent achievement. I would say that whatever they are doing seems to be working, but they could do better! I would tell them to try and go even longer without drinking. I would want to start to argue with this person about "well you said you don't need it so why ever drink again" but I wouldn't start that arguement because the person said that it was very spur of the moment the 3 times the person did drink. They weren't planned drinking sessions. I would then proceed to caution the individual because it's very obvious that many many people try to moderate and cannot do so. And I would tell the person if things start to go in the other direction from which they are headed now, the person should reconsider everythingthing that they just posted.
I don't know how this is going to make me look, but this is what I would tell the person. Mostly because I don't have faith in this hypothetical person the way I have faith in myself.
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Originally Posted by jdooner
I am not disagreeing with you about people posting. I believe someone suffering needs the airtime more than anyone. Where we disagree is what is harm reduction and what is enabling a form of addictive behavior with damaging consequences.
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Originally Posted by Serper2014
I would say that whatever they are doing seems to be working, but they could do better! I would tell them to try and go even longer without drinking.
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Originally Posted by jdooner
I am not disagreeing with you about people posting. I believe someone suffering needs the airtime more than anyone. Where we disagree is what is harm reduction and what is enabling a form of addictive behavior with damaging consequences.
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Originally Posted by jdooner
Binge drinking has the propensity to result in brain damage faster as well as more severely than chronic 'non stop' drinking (alcoholism), due to the neurotoxic effects of the repeated rebound withdrawal effects. The tolerance that occurs during chronic ('non-stop') drinking delays alcohol-related brain damage compared to binge drinking, which induces immediate and repeated insults to the brain. The neurotoxic insults to the brain are due to very large amounts of glutamate being released on a repeated basis, which over-stimulates the brain after each binge finishes, resulting in excitotoxicity.[8] The developing adolescent brain is thought to be particularly susceptible to the neurotoxic effects of binge drinking, with some evidence of brain damage occurring from drinking more than 4 or 5 drinks once or twice per month.[9]
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Originally Posted by ScottFromWI
OK - so now you are "you" again. What do you plan to do better over the next 30 days to go longer without drinking?
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Originally Posted by Serper2014
... it was very spur of the moment the 3 times the person did drink. They weren't planned drinking sessions. ...
"Spur of the moment" drinking can be a lot more dangerous than "planned drinking sessions". It seems like in your mind spur of the moment seems a bit better somehow, less alcoholic maybe? Spur of the moment can have very dire consequences - DIUs, passing out, etc. Please be careful.
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Originally Posted by Serper2014
I still can't stop after one, and thinking back, I never could, even before the daily drinking ensued. I never wanted to stop at just one. I have reason to believe that I'm young enough and I hadn't been drinking long enough to cause permanent changes in the brain. It's likely that my brain has rewired itself.
1. You still have no control over alcohol, as you still can't stop at 1 drink, that is a recipe for disaster, when I used to drink after a period of abstinence I didn't immediately go and get hammered, it was a slow progression back to binge drinking over a period of weeks, your only 4 weeks in.
2. Your brain has not rewired itself in 4 weeks.
It seems you're trying to justify drinking now and again, moderating, without looking at the bigger picture that nothing has changed in your genetics or control over alcohol, I went round and round this same "moderation experiment" for years!!
I made similar promises to myself, if I only drink at weekends, if I only drink 2 days a week, 3 days a week, only drink beer, only wine, but the reality was, no matter how much I tried to convince myself my drinking had changed it always brought me back sooner or later to my same old ways!!
All I'm saying is be careful Serper!!
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Originally Posted by melki
Warning, warning! "Spur of the moment" drinking can be a lot more dangerous than "planned drinking sessions". It seems like in your mind spur of the moment seems a bit better somehow, less alcoholic maybe? Spur of the moment can have very dire consequences - DIUs, passing out, etc. Please be careful.
"Spur of the moment" drinking can be a lot more dangerous than "planned drinking sessions". It seems like in your mind spur of the moment seems a bit better somehow, less alcoholic maybe? Spur of the moment can have very dire consequences - DIUs, passing out, etc. Please be careful.Yeah spur of the moment does feel a lot less alcoholic. I used to have to plan to drink, and plan how much I had to drink. And I had to plan every single day, to avoid withdrawals. Now I don't plan on drinking at all. If it happens it happens, if it happens a lot and causes me problems...thats another story... but yes I will be careful.
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Originally Posted by Purpleknight
2 observations:
1. You still have no control over alcohol, as you can't stop at 1 drink, that is a recipe for disaster, when I used to drink after a period of abstinence I didn't immediately go and get hammered, it was a slow progression back to binge drinking over a period of weeks, your only 4 weeks in.
2. Your brain has not rewired itself in 4 weeks.
It seems you're trying to justify drinking now and again, moderating, without looking at the bigger picture that nothing has changed in your genetics or control over alcohol, I went round and round this same "moderation experiment" for years!!
I made similar promises to myself, if I only drink at weekends, if I only drink 2 days a week, 3 days a week, only drink beer, only wine, but the reality was, no matter how much I tried to convince myself my drinking had changed it always brought me back sooner or later to my same old ways!!
1. You still have no control over alcohol, as you can't stop at 1 drink, that is a recipe for disaster, when I used to drink after a period of abstinence I didn't immediately go and get hammered, it was a slow progression back to binge drinking over a period of weeks, your only 4 weeks in.
2. Your brain has not rewired itself in 4 weeks.
It seems you're trying to justify drinking now and again, moderating, without looking at the bigger picture that nothing has changed in your genetics or control over alcohol, I went round and round this same "moderation experiment" for years!!
I made similar promises to myself, if I only drink at weekends, if I only drink 2 days a week, 3 days a week, only drink beer, only wine, but the reality was, no matter how much I tried to convince myself my drinking had changed it always brought me back sooner or later to my same old ways!!
1. No you are right, I don't have control once I start drinking. So I do have to proceed with utmost precaution. I mean I haven't tried it, I probably could stop after one drink, but I'm not sure that would prove anything except that I can stop after one drink, but that doesn't mean that I want to. It's not so much about what you can do, it's about what you want to do.
2. Actually brains can rewire themselves in 4 weeks. If we assume wiring is due to axonal growth. Brains can rewire themselves overnight, if we assume wiring defined by synaptic plasticity. Regardless it hasn't been 4 weeks. It's been almost 10 months since I was drinking daily, and each month has had less and less nights per month. I went from daily, and after a wake up call I went to 10 nights a month, and now i'm down to three. It's not so much about how many nights per month, that is a superfical figure. It's about the associations with drinking. Do I need to drink? Am I craving a drink? Am I going through withdrawals as a result of drinking? Am I missing school or work? Those questions have different answers now as a result of the last month, and yes a brain can rewire itself in just 4 weeks.
Also I don't see the analogy between your promises and what I'm saying. I'm not promising to only drink two days a week or 3, I'm not promising to only drink on weekends, or only drink a certain type of alcohol. The only promise I made was to never drink two days in a row and I only made that promise to myself because I know I can keep it. This seems to be the case that many people try to moderate and end up back to their old ways, and yes that could happen to me, I'm aware there is risk involved. However, when i started drinking daily the first time I was no way aware of what daily drinking would do to my health, my personality, my life. I'm very aware now, so I don't see that happening to me.
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Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Chicago, IL
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I know exactly how you feel. I went through those same rationalizations less than a year ago. I'm 26 now. It didn't work out well for me and doesn't work out for many, many people.
But who knows... Maybe you're an anomaly.
All I know, is that nothing is going to change your mind at this point.
Good luck in your endeavor.
But who knows... Maybe you're an anomaly.
All I know, is that nothing is going to change your mind at this point.
Good luck in your endeavor.
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Originally Posted by Serper2014
I have no problem with being wrong, but I do have a problem with people that don't know me saying I can't do something that they couldn't do. I can do lots of things that you can't do. That is a fact. So Ciao for now.
You described some great experiences you had when you were drinking. Particularly with women. What makes you think it was alcohol that is responsible for your good time?
Perhaps if you stayed sober while she was drinking, you would have had even more fun. What part of this good time do you feel being drunk enhanced? Assuming you got lucky, do you even remember a majority of it?
I can guarantee you that being drunk didn't give you any kind of edge whatsoever and you could have pulled the same thing off sober.
Maybe HER being intoxicated gave you an edge, but that's her, not you. You could have gone out and had fun with them while they drank and you didn't, if that's your thing.
I don't think anyone on here is trying to unnerve you, or make this a challenge for you, since they couldn't do it. They are just trying to help because they have been in your shoes and they are familiar with the thought process you are describing.
As Rosie said it would seem that your mind is already made up either way. You seem to be a lot like me. You have a strong mind.
That can be a double edged sword, especially when you want to justify something to yourself that is otherwise irrational. Keep that in mind when you are reflecting introspectively after gathering your "data".
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Originally Posted by NightmaresOnWax
I never said it wasn't possible, I just asked you to ask yourself if it was worth it.
You described some great experiences you had when you were drinking. Particularly with women. What makes you think it was alcohol that is responsible for your good time?
Perhaps if you stayed sober while she was drinking, you would have had even more fun. What part of this good time do you feel being drunk enhanced? Assuming you got lucky, do you even remember a majority of it?
I can guarantee you that being drunk didn't give you any kind of edge whatsoever and you could have pulled the same thing off sober.
Maybe HER being intoxicated gave you an edge, but that's her, not you. You could have gone out and had fun with them while they drank and you didn't, if that's your thing.
I don't think anyone on here is trying to unnerve you, or make this a challenge for you, since they couldn't do it. They are just trying to help because they have been in your shoes and they are familiar with the thought process you are describing.
As Rosie said it would seem that your mind is already made up either way. You seem to be a lot like me. You have a strong mind.
That can be a double edged sword, especially when you want to justify something to yourself that is otherwise irrational. Keep that in mind when you are reflecting introspectively after gathering your "data".
You described some great experiences you had when you were drinking. Particularly with women. What makes you think it was alcohol that is responsible for your good time?
Perhaps if you stayed sober while she was drinking, you would have had even more fun. What part of this good time do you feel being drunk enhanced? Assuming you got lucky, do you even remember a majority of it?
I can guarantee you that being drunk didn't give you any kind of edge whatsoever and you could have pulled the same thing off sober.
Maybe HER being intoxicated gave you an edge, but that's her, not you. You could have gone out and had fun with them while they drank and you didn't, if that's your thing.
I don't think anyone on here is trying to unnerve you, or make this a challenge for you, since they couldn't do it. They are just trying to help because they have been in your shoes and they are familiar with the thought process you are describing.
As Rosie said it would seem that your mind is already made up either way. You seem to be a lot like me. You have a strong mind.
That can be a double edged sword, especially when you want to justify something to yourself that is otherwise irrational. Keep that in mind when you are reflecting introspectively after gathering your "data".
I do things that are irrational at times, and I do justify them to myself. So you are right about that and I will keep reflecting as I go on this journey...
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Originally Posted by Serper2014
I'm kind of offended to be honest. I went back and reread my post. I didn't lie at all. Not a single sentence was a lie. Every sentence was that I wrote was 100% true. So what am I lying about? and who are you question my honesty?
I tend to agree with you Serper, some pholk sadly cannot contribute in a productive manner, but I see it quite a lot from the same people.
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I figure you're gonna do what you're gonna do Serper.
I was like that too. I wanted to accomodate drinking in my life, despite the mounting evidence that said that was a bad idea.
You have to wonder then what motivates you to engage again and again in something you admit can't control.
For me it was a little stubbornness and a lot of fear...I didn't want to be that guy who couldn't drink.
You also rationalise and minimise that behaviour with your word choice, just like I did...
I don't call that drinking with control 'moderating' or 'getting toasty'...I'd call that binging - and it's every bit as bad for you as all day everyday drinking.
I wish you well, as always, but I don't think you're on a winner here Serper.
D
I was like that too. I wanted to accomodate drinking in my life, despite the mounting evidence that said that was a bad idea.
No you are right, I don't have control once I start drinking.
For me it was a little stubbornness and a lot of fear...I didn't want to be that guy who couldn't drink.
You also rationalise and minimise that behaviour with your word choice, just like I did...
I don't call that drinking with control 'moderating' or 'getting toasty'...I'd call that binging - and it's every bit as bad for you as all day everyday drinking.
I wish you well, as always, but I don't think you're on a winner here Serper.
D
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Decisions to drink again are a emotive issue around here for obvious reasons.
Please do remember our rules tho and try and keep your contributions and responses constructive and civil
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Please do remember our rules tho and try and keep your contributions and responses constructive and civil
thanks
Dee
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No posts that attack, insult, "flame", defame, or abuse members or non-members. Respect other members of the community and don’t belittle, make fun of, or insult another member or non-member. Decisions about health and recovery are highly personal, individual choices. "Flaming" and insults, however, will not be tolerated. Agree to disagree. This applies to both the forums and chat.
It is also our policy not to allow threads that are purely to announce that you are unhappy here and "leaving the site'" or to post threads discussing why someone left or was banned. Such posts often detract from our purpose of providing support in recovery. Posts of this nature may be removed and continued posting of this nature could jeopardize your membership. If you wish to “leave” SR or just take a break from the site you are welcome to notify your friends via the Private Message feature.
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