jdooner

I can appreciate your motives. My goal is to use my experience to help not to bully. As such, I wish you best on your goal of moderation. I do think it will be useful for you to determine if you can or cannot drink safely. Let us know how it goes though.

bookmaven

I completely disagree with calling a number of continuous days of abstinence interrupted by use of mood altering substances like alcohol "sobriety". It's still looking outside of yourself to chemically manipulate the dopamine levels and pleasure receptors in your brain, regardless of how much or how often you drink. Just because you are not under the influence does not mean you are sober. You are still actively using, thinking about using, planning how much and how often you are going to use, minimizing the consequences of using, and claiming to be sober when you're not using simultaneously. You can't continue to drink and be sober at the same time. It's one or the other, your either drinking or your not.

jdooner

There is really only one person you need to answer to and it's not us. We are just share our experiences and sometimes passing judgment.

anattaboy

Moderation is a bad word here because most of us passed that stage many years ago and today call this denial. Back then we were just like you. The only way to know for sure is to try.

Serper2014

I thank you for your experience. Sorry if I got a little heated. I did drink safely for a long time before the daily drinking began (looking back it began because I was sad--maybe even depressed at that time), but I've gotten over those issues and they were years ago.

Like I said, maybe I've grown enough to use alcohol like a normal person. Two or 3 months ago I would have never predicted that I would be thinking this way.
I was stuck in the dogma, chanting that I'm an alcoholic and I'll never be able to drink again. But back then it was a huge part of my life... It's not anymore, and once I finish responding to a few more posts on this thread. You probably won't hear from me for another month at least. I hope that it goes well, I expect it to, but if it doesn't then I will know for sure that abstinence is the only option. Although the numbers don't lie. Most alcoholics can't moderate. Or drink every once in a while. And coming to a forum for help doesn't make me the same as everyone else, or anyone else. I'm an individual. So I'll just have to try it for myself.

MelindaFlowers

I don't know but you may want to rethink this drinking thing. I just looked at the titles of your old threads and one of them is called "got some benzos from the doctor for withdrawal."

I'm not sure if that sounds like something that a normal drinker goes through.

Serper2014

Ok well then we won't call it sobriety if it doesn't fit your definition. That's just a definition and no matter what we call my behavior over the last month and a half... It's very very good progress or a very very good change from a year ago. I'm so happy for it, even if it doesn't fit your definition. I'm a neuroscientist and I'm really not trying to be one of those people, but you chemically manipulate dopamine receptors every single day of your life, and there is no such thing as a pleasure receptor, by the way. So lets not talk about the physiology behind addiction unless you equipped to do so-- which I don't think you are since you used the term pleasure receptor. The definition of being sober is not being under the influence. That is the dictionary definition. So I don't know what you mean or how useful it is to use your own definitions of things without explaining. I don't know what actively using means. Considering there is no such thing as passive using. So what do you mean by I'm actively using? So yes I am using, but no I'm not planning how much or when I will drink. I made that very clear. I have no idea when the next time I will drink will be. Or if it will ever happen. I just don't know and outsside of this forum I'm not thinking about it. So you aren't correct with your assumptions. So if you say that it's one or the other I'm either drinking or I'm not. Then let's say I'm drinking. So now there is no confusion. I'm drinking. But I my hope is to achieve more consecutive sober days than the 12 I've had and then go from there.

Lola23

Serper - I'm not trying to pile on or be offensive, but I do feel like I need to respond. I think what's striking people the wrong way is that you are posting on a recovery site that you have had several instances of using recently...and hey, it was FUN!! Yeay! That's not really what this site is for. There are plenty of people in the world that can use alcohol responsibly and w/o any problem...but they are not on a recovery site citing the several instances that they have been drinking and have had no problem.

IMO, it would be like me going to a gambling addiction part of this forum and saying how I just got back from Vegas, I gambled, won a little, lost a little and had a great time! I had no problem at all stopping! Of course not b/c I don't have a gambling problem. So why would I post on a gambling addiction site?

I don't know. I'm not an expert. Just saying how this comes across to me.

Serper2014

Yeah, but I do owe this forum for where I am at today. I really do. So I thought maybe people, those that I learned from, would be curious as to what was going on with me today. I know that people would rather have me come on and post "I got 30 days sober today!" but that's not the truth so... I just told it like it is. Some people may like it, some may not, some may be concerned as you are, some might not care. I'm not trying to rub it in anyones face or anything like that. It was just an update of where I was at. Maybe I'm lucky and I found a way to drink responsibly, maybe I will go on a bender in a month and be back here and realize abstinence is my only option. I don't know what the future holds, but not a single person has yet to congratulate me on only drinking only 3 times in the last month, if you can't see that as a HUGE achievement then you really don't know why I came here in the first place.

RobbyRobot

Well, you seem to be a bit confused about what your doing?
Just saying.

Serper2014

I never claimed to be a normal drinker. Yeah I was having trouble with the withdrawals. Like I said earlier, I may have been more physically dependent on the substance vs psychologically addicted. That is what it is appearing like to me. Considering I still have benzos from that script I got. I don't even need them, I just needed to curb the anxiety while withdrawing. The last 3 times I did drink I didn't withdraw and didn't use any medication the day after or two days after or 3 days after. So all evidence suggests that my brain chemistry has reset to normal. The way I look at is is this. You can't go through withdrawals unless you are drinking a lot for consecutive days in a row. And that hasn't happened in over 9 months (10 as of saturday)

Serper2014

I'll clarify. It depends on your definition of what moderation is. If you consider moderation to be having 2 drinks with dinner moderation. Then I cannot moderate. I'm pretty sure I've lost that ability. If you consider moderating to be getting toasty a few times a month or less, then I've been doing that for 10 months, and especially well in the last month.

Basically I can moderate how often I drink, but not how much I drink.

RobbyRobot

For a lot of us, those three times of drinking don't present as an awesome achievement. Its not about cutting back. Its not about quantity over time.

Its about recovery. Its about knowing the future doesn't include drinking. I know my future doesn't include drinking. A lot of us feel the same way about our respective futures. We know we're not going to be drinking. No matter whatever.

RobbyRobot

You clarified nothing except to justify your own experiences of drinking. Drink if you want. You don't need permission from us. As for quitting, your obviously not into quitting. In my take, your clearly confused.

HeartsAfire

I used to read posts like this when I was trying to "cure" myself of drinking & it would give me so much hope. Posts like this used to make me look down on my fellow alcoholic.

"I'm not really like them."

"I'm stronger than them. "

"See, it can be done."

"What a bunch of sticks in the mud."

"They're just not trying hard enough."

Blah, blah, blah, barf.

Truth is I'm exactly like "them" (read: us). I am weak and powerless over my drinking and I couldn't be more relieved to admit it. For me, it can't be done - in no way, shape or form. In my opinion anyone who is a true alcoholic will never be able to manage any kind of moderation for an extended period of time. The crash and burn will happen eventually. Just as it has for me & many others time & time again.

I am admittedly very, very early in this attempt at sobriety (after trying once again to moderate), but now these types of posts offend, upset and border-line trigger me. And I own every one of those feelings. They are mine and I will deal with them accordingly. I will not allow my AV to twist & turn them and use them as an excuse pick up.

I am posting this for myself, my friends here, for any newcomer or anyone struggling today. I refuse to believe an alcoholic will ever be able to moderate. Ever. There are too many here with stories to the contrary - including my own. I will not be fooled again.

ScottFromWI

I wish you the best of luck. Have you been working any kind of plan or treatment program at all? Last time you were here you had pledged that part of your plan was to be posting and reading daily here on SR.

I'd like to share 2 quotes of yours from you written within this very thread

"maybe I've grown enough to use alcohol like a normal person. Two or 3 months ago I would have never predicted that I would be thinking this way."

"I still can't stop after one, and thinking back, I never could, even before the daily drinking ensued."

Do you see the contradiction?

Serper2014

Well if your opinion is that no true alcoholic can manage moderation for any period of time. Then I would say that maybe I'm not a true alcoholic. Maybe I am, only time will tell.

RobbyRobot

You have time to discover if your a true alcoholic or not? Have you not as yet experienced direct consequences to your drinking to already inform you?

One of the traits of alcoholism is to ignore whatever consequences and drink anyways. Food for thought?

Serper2014

Yeah I am working a plan, I posted about it a long time ago. It's been working really well. I haven't been posting on SR though, I've been too busy and honestly I haven't really been thinking about drinking lately. I've just been focusing on getting work done for my career. You know I would have came and posted if I was in trouble, but I've been healthier and happier than I've been in the last 4 years.

Ok yes I see the contradiction. I shouldn't have used the term "normal person" because it is impossible to define what is normal. But what I meant is that many people go out and drink on occasion and many of them when they do drink get pretty toasty. But they never daily drink and they don't consider themselves to have a problem. Everyone has to decide for themselves if drinking is causing problems for them. At this stage... it's not for me. However, could it in the future? Absolutely. Could it not? Absolutely. The real problem with my drinking in the past was the daily drinking. So I'm very happy with 3x in a month.

Serper2014

Yes I'm relatively young. I do have time to discover. That's what this stage of my life is all about discovering who I am. What you do doesn't make you who you are. What I have learned about my past is that I cannot drink daily. And I swear on my life that I will never drink more than one night in a row again. That is what I learned. However, I've never tried drinking every now and then. Oh wait I did. For 4 years before I began to drink daily, I drank every now and then... maybe once a month or so. Or maybe once every two months. Why do you believe that it is impossible to drink once a month after going through a period of daily drinking? Especially considering I have one month of data suggesting that it isn't going to be a problem. But one month isn't enough time for me to feel confident.