grubby

The AV, or alcoholic voice......... i'm curious about it.

I had an AV attack back in May - right around the 100-day mark, so i now know for a fact that the AV is actually real........ any doubts i had before were buried forever with that brief 3-5 minute episode. I would say the unpleasant episode that i had can best be described as:

"a sudden flurry of racing thoughts that were UN-initiated by me/involuntary, with a spattering of INTENSE alcohol-craving type thoughts thrown in the mix, throughout which I felt a sort of strange anxiety - like a panic attack, but not really"

Recently someone on here posted a story about his recent encounter with a homeless person, and it really caught my interest/spoke to me. I believe in that thread he quoted the alcoholic bum as saying something like this...... it was pretty deep and really captured my attention:

"the truth is........ everybody is an addict deep down, that dark part of us is simply waiting for just the right set of circumstances (illness, divorce, bankruptcy, job loss, death) to manifest itself and come to the surface"

Do you guys think the AV is something "new", as in something that appears overnight and was never "there" before??

Or is it more like an "un-watered seed" that (slowly) grows and thrives in the dark recesses of the mind as our drinking progresses - alcohol being the "water" to the "seed"....... that grows from that lowly innocuous seed into a sort of massive deformed tentacled mental entity that is an "unwelcome guest" in our heads - akin to a second personality. It becomes more and more rooted and entrenched in our brains/minds the longer we drink, and it corrupts us progressively from the inside out.

What do you guys think?

Something "new"?

Or the "un-watered seed of evil"?

Go ahead and vote and feel free to share your thoughts on this most-interesting and rather mysterious topic.

......... also, for the users of "other" drugs, do/did you deal with an "AV" of sorts for your particular drug? Or is there no such thing?

I'm curious if this fascinating AV phenomenon is strictly an alcohol-related thing, or if it is universal to all the addictions. Please feel free to chime in on this you "other" users, your input on this is most-appreciated.

SoberHoopsFan

I think it's universal to all addictions. I would term it "addictive voice." My AV is the part of my brain that wants to get drunk/high all the time regardless of consequences. I imagine any addict has that same part of their brain. However, my AV needs me to purchase the booze and consume it, without me it is powerless, just noise in my mind.

I used drugs (e and coke mostly) when I was younger although I never was addicted the way I am with booze. However, my AV will occasionally try to attack me on those fronts as well if it sees I am denying it booze for long enough. Basically, it craves SOMETHING, even if it can't get the thing it wants the most.

Dee74

The AV is properly something from AVRT, so maybe Rational Recovery folks can speak from that perspective.

For the the rest of us it's become a convenient shorthand for that little voice in our heads that leads us to make bad recovery decisions.

I'm not conscious of it being there always, but intellectually I can look back and see that little voice that told me one more beer would sober me up (!) was AV.

I think it developed for me as a way of breaching that cognitive dissonance between what I knew I should do and what I wanted to do.

That tendency was with me right from childhood but I hesitate to mark it down as AV cos that's a little bit revisionist of me from this point in time.

D

Verte

Grubby - thanks for the chuckle out loud thread and poll. The AV in my experience is truly a little nutty. It feels and sounds almost like this smoky voice-of-something offering unsolicited advice.

Or like the devil on my tail

And I have a few stories to back up this sentiment:

After all my years of drinking and life I very, very slowly came to the conclusion that this whole deal with alcohol just sucks and I-am-done. Pure life experience choice. Then Wham! just two weeks after I make the decision on my own terms, spit shined toilets, soul searching...I am told that I cannot drink anything, at all, ever. Medical imperative. Laughing, I checked over my shoulder looking for a hidden camera (or the devil on my tail). Seriously?

And this weekend while I was driving to a dreaded social event and listening to my 'Birdy' Pandora One station - my Google Maps declared that I was 3/4mile away from my destination AND simultaneously the song 'Chandelier' by Sia started to play. "No Way", I said out loud with a nervous giggle. Then I looked in the back seat and saw only my sweet little girl sitting there so I turned up the volume and sang along (because I have only watched the video 3 trillion times since choosing sober-ness 2 months-ish ago and the song was brought to my attention in the SR 'addiction in the news, media...forum' - thus now have the words memorized). Seriously?

Now when I think of the AV, the Jerry Garcia & David Grisman song "Friend of the Devil" busts out in my head WHICH coincidentally I heard Jerry Garcia play live on the mandolin while drinking the very first beer of my life. I have no idea what this means. BUT my vote is for the AV being the dreaded seed of evil regardless.

**now after reading Dee's thread I realize I may just be a little confused as well as a little nutty. Anyhow, that song still plays in my head when I think of the AV Still not gonna drink alkeehall.

DayTrader

Ah..... this brings back memories.

Was I always alcoholic? Was I born that way? Did I "become" one when my drinking really ramped up in my 30's? Could I have avoided all this mess if only I had chosen X, Y or Z? Why am I alcoholic.....is it some sort of punishment? Why me?

I spent the better part of a year or so.......my first year of sobriety really (and truthfully it was more dry-drunk than it was sobriety) pondering those lovely questions. At the time I would have told you I really needed to know the answers. Looking back, it was more fun to think, wonder, hypothesize, and philosophize than it was to actually start doing something about my current situation - ie, start working on recovery.

I was like someone drowning in a lake. Throw me a life preserver and I'd rather discuss how I ended up in the lake, why can't I swim, should I have learned to swim earlier, and a hundred other things before I actually grab the darn life preserver.

LBrain

it's twoo, it's twoo

I thought I could drink a beer tonight while driving home from a rescue mission. Then I actually yelled at myself out loud. I CAN NEVER DRINK AGAIN! Sometimes it shows up outta nowhere.

MrBen

I don't think it's just alcohol, my brain went through the same thought process quitting smoking and dieting and quitting fizzy pop. No Ben, don't buy a litre of pepsi max at half 12 at night because you have to be up at 6am and this is how insomnia happens!

KAD

As Dee said, "AV" is a concept introduced by RR and the suggestion is that the AV or Beast is a physical part of our brain - the primitive "animal" part - that has to be subdued and controlled. It is motivated primarily by pleasure or pain. In the event of addiction, that part of the brain thinks it's going to die without the object it craves. So, in that sense, we do all have it. It's just that most of us don't succumb to addiction(s) so it doesn't become an issue.

ElleDee

I think the AV has always been around (not new) but maybe new to having a name to it. My AV (like others have said) is a voice I literally have had arguments with in my head where it's telling me to stop at the liquor store and it will all be alright, you'll stop drinking after THIS bottle or you can handle it... stuff like that. It works as well when I want to spend money I don't have and eat garbage when I'm trying to stay on a meal plan. All the same. That evil little part of my brain that wants to sabotage every good thing and healthy thing I try to do for myself. That's my Addict Voice.

doggonecarl

That voice in your head...is you!

Yes, it is identified as the "addictive voice" as a way to separate rational from irrational thinking. And yes, the AV is strongly motivated to get you to act in the addiction's favor. But the voice in your head telling you to drink is the same voice in your head that justifies the unnecessary purchase, makes up the small white lie to your spouse or loved one, or tells you one more cookie won't hurt.

topspin

I think in AVRT, they make a distinction between the *AV* ( Addictive Voice) and our *Addiction* ( the desire to drink or use )

They say the *AV* is any expression in our words or thoughts that allow drinking as a viable option in the present , or future.

The * technique* they suggest is to first, ...(1) be able to recognize it for what it is ( this alone can be problematic, because of the crafty ways we can self sabotage )

And secondly, (2) just to ignore it, because it has no motor skills, and is basically just powerless unless we decide to physically go get our alcohol, ( or DOC ).
The goal is to not engage with it. They say eventually, ...if we continue to engage our AV, ..it's got the upper hand in internal negotiations , since in essence, it's coming from your mind, ...just not your rational mind.
This can cause a great deal of strife, ..or unnecessary "white knuckling"

It sure did for me.

I find it's been helpful early on, but there's a lot more to AVRT than just recognizing the AV.

We're lucky here at SR because it's discussed in great detail on some longer threads. Thankfully frozen in time, ..and we currently have a couple members like Freshstart who can help folks with it.

Carlotta

This is my take on the AV

SonomaGal

I think we all have a latent, dormant, or active AV in play. Wherever we are overdoing something that isn't healthy and finding we can't stop easily, we can see the AV at work. Its the desire for pleasure at the expense of reasonable limits. Our brains pleasure centers (where the AV 'lives') are ancient, and this crashes against the modern world with near unlimited access to addictive substances.

Archelon

I think it's been around. Before I ever heard the term I experienced it.

mine though is like a crying baby, and I want to make it feel better, so I would give in. Like poor little me. And when I stopped it cried, boo hoo, give baby some candy.

When I started to act like a grown up, it had to grow up too and be ok being told no.

sorry forgot to say, this happens to me with many things, not just alcohol. Food, and lay around and watch TV, or on computer, little baby me cries for comfort.

LBrain

for a while I thought I was going to be the lone vote for "new".

ElleDee

Obviously. Hello.

PurpleKnight

I think it's new, I didn't always have it, I have absolutely no proof or evidence however, just my opinion!!

There was a time when I didn't have a problem with alcohol, I had a few beers, went home to bed and that was me done with drinking until the following weekend, there was no voice in my head, no addictive cravings etc, I never thought about alcohol in any way.

But as things progressed through the spiral of tolerance/alcohol volume required to create a buzz, at some point I passed the point of no return, addiction took it's hold, AV in my mind is merely the voice of addiction, the lie that the addiction must be continued, as the body is obviously craving something it has had over such a long period of time.

If I had of discontinued my drinking career shortly after it began, AV wouldn't have existed, I think I needed to get to the point of no return, the addiction needed to have such a stronghold in my life for the body to rebel against not having alcohol!!

My 2 cents!!

grubby

The whole thing is really strange to me, i mean....... i've over-indulged on other things in the past. I over-indulged on sugar/soda throughout my early teens.......... but i never found myself constantly thinking about it.

More recently, a few years ago when i first discovered coffee i was over-indulging to the tune of 3-4 medium-large cups a day. Again, never found myself constantly thinking about it.

Such a strange phenomenon.

doggonecarl

Quit drinking coffee then tell us what shape your thoughts take.

Aellyce

There is also the phenomenon of "drug of choice" - substances, behaviors, whatever we can obsess about / get addicted to. Very clearly we differ in these patterns: for some people even a substance that's generally considered very addictive won't cause a problem, and something else others don't have a problem with, will.

For example, I used to be a smoker, on and off >15 years. My consumption varied greatly over time, sometimes pretty heavy other times light. And I could quit for weeks, months, when I wanted, no problem at all. Yet I smoked because I liked some things about it. Just did not become dependent. When I quit for good, it really wasn't on my mind almost at all. Take alcohol, however.... I thought the cravings would kill me for months, am just starting to get a true relief at 5 months that I hope won't turn backwards because my cravings were real torture.