View Poll Results: The AV - "something new" or not?
I think it's something "new"
8
17.02%
I think it was always there - the "un-watered seed"
27
57.45%
Other, i don't think it's either
12
25.53%
Voters: 47. You may not vote on this poll
The mystery of the AV: is the AV something "new"? ..... or was it always there?
Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 16
Originally Posted by haennie 
There is also the phenomenon of "drug of choice" - substances, behaviors, whatever we can obsess about / get addicted to. Very clearly we differ in these patterns: for some people even a substance that's generally considered very addictive won't cause a problem, and something else others don't have a problem with, will.
For example, I used to be a smoker, on and off >15 years. My consumption varied greatly over time, sometimes pretty heavy other times light. And I could quit for weeks, months, when I wanted, no problem at all. Yet I smoked because I liked some things about it. Just did not become dependent. When I quit for good, it really wasn't on my mind almost at all. Take alcohol, however.... I thought the cravings would kill me for months, am just starting to get a true relief at 5 months that I hope won't turn backwards because my cravings were real torture.
For example, I used to be a smoker, on and off >15 years. My consumption varied greatly over time, sometimes pretty heavy other times light. And I could quit for weeks, months, when I wanted, no problem at all. Yet I smoked because I liked some things about it. Just did not become dependent. When I quit for good, it really wasn't on my mind almost at all. Take alcohol, however.... I thought the cravings would kill me for months, am just starting to get a true relief at 5 months that I hope won't turn backwards because my cravings were real torture.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,909
Interesting topic. I finally have the name to the tricky and extremely creative bugger that's been whispering in my ear for years. 
However, I don't think AV or any other voice in your head is YOU. YOU are much deeper, at a soul level if I may. Thoughts are fleeting, and they don't define you. A thought is like a bird, you can't stop it from flying by, but you don't have to let it build a nest in your head.
Also, it may sound hokey, but I am not a stranger to belief that thoughts are triggered by egregores, which is something like a collective group thoughtform. There's a limitless number of those, some powerful ones have a lot of followers. So while you are suffering from addiction, this huge addiction egregor has power over your thoughts. The more free you become of it, the more you are at balance and not as affected. You are then open to be occupied by other thoughtforms, hopefully more positive. I didn't delve deep into the subject, but feel there's some truth to it.
However, I don't think AV or any other voice in your head is YOU. YOU are much deeper, at a soul level if I may. Thoughts are fleeting, and they don't define you. A thought is like a bird, you can't stop it from flying by, but you don't have to let it build a nest in your head.
Also, it may sound hokey, but I am not a stranger to belief that thoughts are triggered by egregores, which is something like a collective group thoughtform. There's a limitless number of those, some powerful ones have a lot of followers. So while you are suffering from addiction, this huge addiction egregor has power over your thoughts. The more free you become of it, the more you are at balance and not as affected. You are then open to be occupied by other thoughtforms, hopefully more positive. I didn't delve deep into the subject, but feel there's some truth to it.
lillyknitting
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Loughton, Essex, England
Posts: 638
I don't think it is an evil, an entity as such but more our conscience our inner knowledge of what's good & bad. We can all relate to that little inner voice saying "go on, you know you want to. Go, on you know you can" and I really do believe that this fades & dies the longer we are not drinking. Why do I believe this? Because countless people have said it does. But, we have to give it time. We have to really, really want it to get it to work hard at it in the beginning & expect these thoughts to come in from time to time. Then, just like all things, one day we realize, omg, I don't miss that any more. I haven't had a cigarette in over eight years, and yet, as hard as it was to quit in the beginning I never ever think about fags any more. In fact I detest the smell so much! Just like the stench of alcohol on someone's breath, or the disgusting smell of the wine bottle when clearing up the next day etc
Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,909
Originally Posted by deanyya
I am new to this and need help with my av.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Cardiff
Posts: 144
I think the AV is what WE call it. I've read many self help books over the years and quite a few authors refer to the brain as having two parts, a logical part and an emotional part. The logical part is at it suggests, it's the clear thinking rational part of the brain. The emotional part of the brain is your feelings, it's the part of the brain that gives happiness, sadness, worry etc etc. So we call it the AV others call it the lower self, the inner chimp, the internal chatter box and so on.
I believe most people have an inner self, an emotional side to the brain. This can be both positive in some cases and of course destructive and negative in other cases. Your inner self can lead you to eat more, drink more, do irrational things, enter unsuitable relationships, doubt yourself and many more negative actions. It can also bring much happiness such as love, joy and excitment. The key of course, which is easier said than done, is to understand and control your inner self. How you do this is anyone's guess! If knew I probably would not be on this forum. That said I think by trying to create more positive things in your life you can alter your emotional side. For instance finding a new hobbie, learning a new skill, making new friends, doing something worthwhile or taking a vacation.
The problem with the inner self or AV is that it is very powerful. In fact some authors believe the emotional side of your brain is up to 5 times stronger than the logical side of the brain. This would explain why we often struggle with staying sober and why so many of us have this never ending battle with our inner demons.
The good thing is that we can overcome negative and addictive thoughts. I'm struggling right now but this board is living proof that people like me and you can get sober and more importantly stay sober! This forum acts as constant source of inspiration to me and I'm sure that with help and support I recieve here and the positive action i do myself that I can become a free and better person.
By the way, 3 days sober for me today and feeling great!!
I believe most people have an inner self, an emotional side to the brain. This can be both positive in some cases and of course destructive and negative in other cases. Your inner self can lead you to eat more, drink more, do irrational things, enter unsuitable relationships, doubt yourself and many more negative actions. It can also bring much happiness such as love, joy and excitment. The key of course, which is easier said than done, is to understand and control your inner self. How you do this is anyone's guess! If knew I probably would not be on this forum. That said I think by trying to create more positive things in your life you can alter your emotional side. For instance finding a new hobbie, learning a new skill, making new friends, doing something worthwhile or taking a vacation.
The problem with the inner self or AV is that it is very powerful. In fact some authors believe the emotional side of your brain is up to 5 times stronger than the logical side of the brain. This would explain why we often struggle with staying sober and why so many of us have this never ending battle with our inner demons.
The good thing is that we can overcome negative and addictive thoughts. I'm struggling right now but this board is living proof that people like me and you can get sober and more importantly stay sober! This forum acts as constant source of inspiration to me and I'm sure that with help and support I recieve here and the positive action i do myself that I can become a free and better person.
By the way, 3 days sober for me today and feeling great!!
Not The Way way, Just the way
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: US
Posts: 1,413
Originally Posted by grubby
The AV, or alcoholic voice......... i'm curious about it.
I had an AV attack back in May - right around the 100-day mark, so i now know for a fact that the AV is actually real........ any doubts i had before were buried forever with that brief 3-5 minute episode. I would say the unpleasant episode that i had can best be described as:
"a sudden flurry of racing thoughts that were UN-initiated by me/involuntary, with a spattering of INTENSE alcohol-craving type thoughts thrown in the mix, throughout which I felt a sort of strange anxiety - like a panic attack, but not really"
Recently someone on here posted a story about his recent encounter with a homeless person, and it really caught my interest/spoke to me. I believe in that thread he quoted the alcoholic bum as saying something like this...... it was pretty deep and really captured my attention:
"the truth is........ everybody is an addict deep down, that dark part of us is simply waiting for just the right set of circumstances (illness, divorce, bankruptcy, job loss, death) to manifest itself and come to the surface"
Do you guys think the AV is something "new", as in something that appears overnight and was never "there" before??
Or is it more like an "un-watered seed" that (slowly) grows and thrives in the dark recesses of the mind as our drinking progresses - alcohol being the "water" to the "seed"....... that grows from that lowly innocuous seed into a sort of massive deformed tentacled mental entity that is an "unwelcome guest" in our heads - akin to a second personality. It becomes more and more rooted and entrenched in our brains/minds the longer we drink, and it corrupts us progressively from the inside out.
What do you guys think?
Something "new"?
Or the "un-watered seed of evil"?
Go ahead and vote and feel free to share your thoughts on this most-interesting and rather mysterious topic.
......... also, for the users of "other" drugs, do/did you deal with an "AV" of sorts for your particular drug? Or is there no such thing?
I'm curious if this fascinating AV phenomenon is strictly an alcohol-related thing, or if it is universal to all the addictions. Please feel free to chime in on this you "other" users, your input on this is most-appreciated.
I had an AV attack back in May - right around the 100-day mark, so i now know for a fact that the AV is actually real........ any doubts i had before were buried forever with that brief 3-5 minute episode. I would say the unpleasant episode that i had can best be described as:
"a sudden flurry of racing thoughts that were UN-initiated by me/involuntary, with a spattering of INTENSE alcohol-craving type thoughts thrown in the mix, throughout which I felt a sort of strange anxiety - like a panic attack, but not really"
Recently someone on here posted a story about his recent encounter with a homeless person, and it really caught my interest/spoke to me. I believe in that thread he quoted the alcoholic bum as saying something like this...... it was pretty deep and really captured my attention:
"the truth is........ everybody is an addict deep down, that dark part of us is simply waiting for just the right set of circumstances (illness, divorce, bankruptcy, job loss, death) to manifest itself and come to the surface"
Do you guys think the AV is something "new", as in something that appears overnight and was never "there" before??
Or is it more like an "un-watered seed" that (slowly) grows and thrives in the dark recesses of the mind as our drinking progresses - alcohol being the "water" to the "seed"....... that grows from that lowly innocuous seed into a sort of massive deformed tentacled mental entity that is an "unwelcome guest" in our heads - akin to a second personality. It becomes more and more rooted and entrenched in our brains/minds the longer we drink, and it corrupts us progressively from the inside out.
What do you guys think?
Something "new"?
Or the "un-watered seed of evil"?
Go ahead and vote and feel free to share your thoughts on this most-interesting and rather mysterious topic.
......... also, for the users of "other" drugs, do/did you deal with an "AV" of sorts for your particular drug? Or is there no such thing?
I'm curious if this fascinating AV phenomenon is strictly an alcohol-related thing, or if it is universal to all the addictions. Please feel free to chime in on this you "other" users, your input on this is most-appreciated.
For the Addictive Voice to be properly Recognized in oneself, it is necessary to institute a Big Plan which is a simple pledge "I will never drink again". Without this Plan, I found my Addictive Voice to be unnecessarily elusive. I also found no reason to use Addictive Voice Recognition Technique unless I was willing to commit to the Big Plan.
I think a quick way to describe it to new people is to present the AVRT Matrix which uses the term "It" for the "AV".
Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: C.C. Ma.
Posts: 3,697
In the mid 70s when I first attempted getting sober in AA “built in forgetter” and “my sh!t fairy” was the same concept regarding our inner voice feeding us misinformation about drinking. Different areas probably have different terms.
BE WELL
BE WELL
waking down
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,641
This is an interesting conversation, and I can see that there are many ways to perceive the so-called AV or addictive voice.
I don't view it as having any type of formal reality outside the schema or constructs created by my own mind as a result of suggestions I've read from advocates of Rational Recovery. That is, my AV is my own creation. It is a subset or cluster of thought types that are categorized in my mind as those that could threaten my sobriety and recovery.
Now, whether those thoughts are influenced by environment or by some kind of genetically inherited brain function or both is, practically speaking, pretty much irrelevant. The important thing is that I am able to recognize thought patterns that could derail what has become a very positive thing in my life - clean sobriety. What I call it or whether I personify it only has value in relation to the effectiveness of the construct. If it helps to visualize AV thoughts as coming from a devil or an aardvark or Hanky the Christmas Poo...hey...whatever works...
I don't view it as having any type of formal reality outside the schema or constructs created by my own mind as a result of suggestions I've read from advocates of Rational Recovery. That is, my AV is my own creation. It is a subset or cluster of thought types that are categorized in my mind as those that could threaten my sobriety and recovery.
Now, whether those thoughts are influenced by environment or by some kind of genetically inherited brain function or both is, practically speaking, pretty much irrelevant. The important thing is that I am able to recognize thought patterns that could derail what has become a very positive thing in my life - clean sobriety. What I call it or whether I personify it only has value in relation to the effectiveness of the construct. If it helps to visualize AV thoughts as coming from a devil or an aardvark or Hanky the Christmas Poo...hey...whatever works...
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