Day 2 , Who we are
Breaking Thru
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: SW Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,219
Day 2 , Who we are
Hello friends
I woke up inquisitive. If i'm going to get clean , I got to nail it down , why I run for the crack pipe. For that small , small timeframe that I'm fullfilled or numbed ? I'd like your input.
It's to do with being fullfilled , being ok with ourselves. The question is can it be learned ?
By comparison ? The next guy , the guy in prison , the guy handicapped . We must be happy by comparison.
Is it hereditary ? Because our parents were not happy does that mean I will be like them. Mine were not. What does that mean? It starts at an early age , who we are. So much of it is early on , how we were treated , the things we had or had not. The kid on the outside of the circle. The kid with less. That was me.
So by comparisom I surely should be happy and Surely I'm not destined to be like my parents or am I ?
If it can be learned , I think this is key ???
Tr
I woke up inquisitive. If i'm going to get clean , I got to nail it down , why I run for the crack pipe. For that small , small timeframe that I'm fullfilled or numbed ? I'd like your input.
It's to do with being fullfilled , being ok with ourselves. The question is can it be learned ?
By comparison ? The next guy , the guy in prison , the guy handicapped . We must be happy by comparison.
Is it hereditary ? Because our parents were not happy does that mean I will be like them. Mine were not. What does that mean? It starts at an early age , who we are. So much of it is early on , how we were treated , the things we had or had not. The kid on the outside of the circle. The kid with less. That was me.
So by comparisom I surely should be happy and Surely I'm not destined to be like my parents or am I ?
If it can be learned , I think this is key ???
Tr
Recognizes the Beast
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: In the kitchen, cooking up a storm
Posts: 704
Hey Rick,
I posted this in the friends and family forum the other day. It's a 2004 study that directly links childhood trauma with the development of addiction later in life. The study lists 8 ACE's or Adverse Childhood Experiences and samples 17,000 mature adults in California. They found someone who had experienced 6 or more ACE's in their childhood was 4,600 times more likely to become an intravenous drug user, than someone who experienced none of them.
It's a very, very interesting study. Check it out:
http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&...PX6ayLVh8kQycQ
I posted this in the friends and family forum the other day. It's a 2004 study that directly links childhood trauma with the development of addiction later in life. The study lists 8 ACE's or Adverse Childhood Experiences and samples 17,000 mature adults in California. They found someone who had experienced 6 or more ACE's in their childhood was 4,600 times more likely to become an intravenous drug user, than someone who experienced none of them.
It's a very, very interesting study. Check it out:
http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&...PX6ayLVh8kQycQ
That bell or bike person
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: london
Posts: 4,978
Ricky ,
For me raking over the past held no useful tool for dealing with my alcoholic drinking , infact i'd go so far as to say it was just another distraction and procrastination by my alkie brain to not deal with the problem infront of me .
Cause and effect is tought to us in the western world as a way to deal with and survive and thrive in the world . I'm not sure how objective i am in looking back at my past , it's a series of impressions painted with a large emotional brush and vivid pallette .
I suppose there might be some use in accepting and putting ones "daemons to bed" If we're trying to make our lives as free and pleasant as possible .
Just be wary of spinning another tangled web of confusion demanding resolution between yourself and living clean and sober .
Bestwishes, m
For me raking over the past held no useful tool for dealing with my alcoholic drinking , infact i'd go so far as to say it was just another distraction and procrastination by my alkie brain to not deal with the problem infront of me .
Cause and effect is tought to us in the western world as a way to deal with and survive and thrive in the world . I'm not sure how objective i am in looking back at my past , it's a series of impressions painted with a large emotional brush and vivid pallette .
I suppose there might be some use in accepting and putting ones "daemons to bed" If we're trying to make our lives as free and pleasant as possible .
Just be wary of spinning another tangled web of confusion demanding resolution between yourself and living clean and sober .
Bestwishes, m
Forum Leader
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 16,945
I had a pretty much ideal childhood. I went to a good college and have had good jobs ever since. I have a wonderful family and great kids. No one in my immediate family is alcoholic. Yet I am an alcoholic. It's much more important to figure out how to live sober than figure out why we have this affliction
Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Pa
Posts: 4,872
Hey riky,
I do think this is a very debatable subject, where there is not right or wrong answer here. Some people grew up in an abusive atmosphere, some did not.
I grew up in an abusive alcoholic family. My father was an alcoholic and he was abusive. I grew up just learning how to keep my mouth shut. So I did, and then I numbed my feelings with alcohol, just like my dad did. I didn't have any coping skills, I didn't have any validation to my feelings. So I drank.
My dad died of cirrhosis when I was in my early 20's. Need to tell you that there was dancing at his funeral. I didn't though. I loved my dad, I was his favorite, and I was the one that he abused the most. I knew it was wrong the way he acted, but I had to learn how to forgive.
I forgave my dad, I would think to myself he also must have had a horrible childhood. He wasn't really that bad, he didn't beat me, he must have thought that he was an improvement from his own dad. My dad was also abused during his childhood. There was no one that I could talk to about it, so I just accepted that, and I forgave him, and I love him.
Now move on to my marriage. He was great in the beginning, totally different from my dad, I thought that I had found "gold". He turned out to be worse then my dad ever was. I drank because that was the only coping mechanism that I knew. It numbed the pain when things where happening, then the next morning you are supposed to get up like nothing ever happened. It didn't work that way for me. I was still in pain, so I drank some more. Stupid really, but I didn't know how to cope with things. I coped with things the way I was taught. I numbed myself, I didn't do anything about it, I stayed in that relationship way too long. 27 years.
This is where SR comes in. I learned different ways to cope with things. I learned to let things go, learned that I cannot fix other people.
I don't know if this is something that you might be looking for, just wanted to let you know how I did it.
It is what it is, but it becomes what you make it.
Good luck on your journey to sobriety and a better life, I am in your corner.
PS ------ I stopped looking at who I am, and how I got there, I started to look at who I want to be.
I do think this is a very debatable subject, where there is not right or wrong answer here. Some people grew up in an abusive atmosphere, some did not.
I grew up in an abusive alcoholic family. My father was an alcoholic and he was abusive. I grew up just learning how to keep my mouth shut. So I did, and then I numbed my feelings with alcohol, just like my dad did. I didn't have any coping skills, I didn't have any validation to my feelings. So I drank.
My dad died of cirrhosis when I was in my early 20's. Need to tell you that there was dancing at his funeral. I didn't though. I loved my dad, I was his favorite, and I was the one that he abused the most. I knew it was wrong the way he acted, but I had to learn how to forgive.
I forgave my dad, I would think to myself he also must have had a horrible childhood. He wasn't really that bad, he didn't beat me, he must have thought that he was an improvement from his own dad. My dad was also abused during his childhood. There was no one that I could talk to about it, so I just accepted that, and I forgave him, and I love him.
Now move on to my marriage. He was great in the beginning, totally different from my dad, I thought that I had found "gold". He turned out to be worse then my dad ever was. I drank because that was the only coping mechanism that I knew. It numbed the pain when things where happening, then the next morning you are supposed to get up like nothing ever happened. It didn't work that way for me. I was still in pain, so I drank some more. Stupid really, but I didn't know how to cope with things. I coped with things the way I was taught. I numbed myself, I didn't do anything about it, I stayed in that relationship way too long. 27 years.
This is where SR comes in. I learned different ways to cope with things. I learned to let things go, learned that I cannot fix other people.
I don't know if this is something that you might be looking for, just wanted to let you know how I did it.
It is what it is, but it becomes what you make it.
Good luck on your journey to sobriety and a better life, I am in your corner.
PS ------ I stopped looking at who I am, and how I got there, I started to look at who I want to be.
Guest
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,242
I had a fantastic childhood, the problems that I had in late teens early twenties meant I learned to rely on drink to deal with grief, sadness, confidence. Now I have to learn to learn new ways to cope with life's stresses and problems x
Amy I admire your attitude esp with all you've been thro x
Amy I admire your attitude esp with all you've been thro x
Life Health Prosperity
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Louisana
Posts: 6,752
Hey Riky, happiness by comparison is learned behavior. I have only recently begun to make choices to be happy as an individual. Looking into your past traumas could be helpful to figure out what's wrong with yourself. Now, the cocaine addiction is clearly a physical thing. Cocaine blocks the reuptake receptors and the the synapses between the neurons stay flooded with dopamine, and important neurotransmitter for happiness and well being. That's why we become addicted. Smoking crack made all my problems go. Your brain seeks pleasure over pain and doesn't care about long term consequences as we both well know. I came across this concept called homeostasis, the process by which the body attempts to maintain a state of stable physiological balance. The word homeostasis is derived from the Greek, homeo or "same", and stasis or "stable" and means remaining stable or remaining the same. As I studied it I came across this article that puts it in a psychological content that is very interesting. Author George Leonard discusses in his book Mastery how homeostasis affects our behavior and who we are. He
states that homeostasis will prevent our body from making drastic changes and maintain stability in our lives even if it is detrimental to us.[12] Examples include when an obese person starts exercising, homeostasis in the body resists the activity to maintain stability.[13] Another example Leonard uses is an unstable family where the father has been a raging alcoholic and suddenly stops and the son starts up a drug habit to maintain stability in the family. Homeostasis is the main factor that stops people changing their habits because our bodies view change as dangerous unless it is very slow. Leonard discusses this dilemma as the media today only encourages fast change and quick results. The opening of his book aptly describes his despair with the current state of the world and how it is at war with homeostasis. "The trouble is that we have few, if any, maps to guide us on the journey or even to show us how to find the path. The modern world, in fact, can be viewed as a prodigious conspiracy against mastery. We're continually bombarded with the promises of immediate gratification, instant success, and fast, temporary relief, all of which lead in exactly the wrong direction." I'm gonna read that book. Rootin for ya.
states that homeostasis will prevent our body from making drastic changes and maintain stability in our lives even if it is detrimental to us.[12] Examples include when an obese person starts exercising, homeostasis in the body resists the activity to maintain stability.[13] Another example Leonard uses is an unstable family where the father has been a raging alcoholic and suddenly stops and the son starts up a drug habit to maintain stability in the family. Homeostasis is the main factor that stops people changing their habits because our bodies view change as dangerous unless it is very slow. Leonard discusses this dilemma as the media today only encourages fast change and quick results. The opening of his book aptly describes his despair with the current state of the world and how it is at war with homeostasis. "The trouble is that we have few, if any, maps to guide us on the journey or even to show us how to find the path. The modern world, in fact, can be viewed as a prodigious conspiracy against mastery. We're continually bombarded with the promises of immediate gratification, instant success, and fast, temporary relief, all of which lead in exactly the wrong direction." I'm gonna read that book. Rootin for ya.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Central NJ
Posts: 5
TrikyRiky
Yes, if you are an addict, like me, then running to crack, dope, booze, whatever.....is exactly what we do in order to escape reality. THAT IS YOUR WHY.
Being OK with me takes work and time. It can be mighty uncomfortable and unpleasant sometimmes..... but I need to be patient with myself as I learn the tools to use to recover.
For me, being happy is a choice. I choose to be happy. I choose to look at life/people/situations in a positive light. This, too, takes alot of practice and patience.
AS LONG AS I DON'T USE I HAVE A CHANCE AT RECOVERY FROM MY DISEASE.
Please keep posting!
Yes, if you are an addict, like me, then running to crack, dope, booze, whatever.....is exactly what we do in order to escape reality. THAT IS YOUR WHY.
Being OK with me takes work and time. It can be mighty uncomfortable and unpleasant sometimmes..... but I need to be patient with myself as I learn the tools to use to recover.
For me, being happy is a choice. I choose to be happy. I choose to look at life/people/situations in a positive light. This, too, takes alot of practice and patience.
AS LONG AS I DON'T USE I HAVE A CHANCE AT RECOVERY FROM MY DISEASE.
Please keep posting!
Recognizes the Beast
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: In the kitchen, cooking up a storm
Posts: 704
Originally Posted by ScottFromWI 
I had a pretty much ideal childhood. I went to a good college and have had good jobs ever since. I have a wonderful family and great kids. No one in my immediate family is alcoholic. Yet I am an alcoholic. It's much more important to figure out how to live sober than figure out why we have this affliction
The vast majority of people on this planet are not addicts, yet some of us are. If you get sober, but the causes of your addiction are still present and you're not addressing them, then it's going to be tough not to relapse.
Fundamentally I don't believe people become addicts for no apparent reason. It's not good enough, for me anyways to say "Oops became an alcoholic, gotta stop doing that".
Scott you say everything in your life was great, maybe. But I would suggest that there are perfectly good reasons you developed an a problem with alcohol. It wasn't just a random cosmic coincidence.
Anyways, don't want to step on too many toes here, but did want to point out that the hard evidence is out there. Addiction is medically explainable phenomenon now. That still hasn't reached wide-spread public consciousness, but the sooner it does, the sooner the stigma will begin to recede and people can start getting the help when they need it.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Pa
Posts: 4,872
Originally Posted by nomis
With all due respect, I have to agree to disagree on this one. I think it is vital for recovery to understand the underlying reasons that caused addiction in the first place.
The vast majority of people on this planet are not addicts, yet some of us are. If you get sober, but the causes of your addiction are still present and you're not addressing them, then it's going to be tough not to relapse.
Fundamentally I don't believe people become addicts for no apparent reason. It's not good enough, for me anyways to say "Oops became an alcoholic, gotta stop doing that".
Scott you say everything in your life was great, maybe. But I would suggest that there are perfectly good reasons you developed an a problem with alcohol. It wasn't just a random cosmic coincidence.
Anyways, don't want to step on too many toes here, but did want to point out that the hard evidence is out there. Addiction is medically explainable phenomenon now. That still hasn't reached wide-spread public consciousness, but the sooner it does, the sooner the stigma will begin to recede and people can start getting the help when they need it.
The vast majority of people on this planet are not addicts, yet some of us are. If you get sober, but the causes of your addiction are still present and you're not addressing them, then it's going to be tough not to relapse.
Fundamentally I don't believe people become addicts for no apparent reason. It's not good enough, for me anyways to say "Oops became an alcoholic, gotta stop doing that".
Scott you say everything in your life was great, maybe. But I would suggest that there are perfectly good reasons you developed an a problem with alcohol. It wasn't just a random cosmic coincidence.
Anyways, don't want to step on too many toes here, but did want to point out that the hard evidence is out there. Addiction is medically explainable phenomenon now. That still hasn't reached wide-spread public consciousness, but the sooner it does, the sooner the stigma will begin to recede and people can start getting the help when they need it.
I'm going to agree with most of this. I still do think that there are exceptions. Normal childhood, yet becomes an alcoholic. Peer pressure? Then just liking the feeling.
I do think that you need to look at the causes. I think you need to take your own inventory, then try to link it back to the "why", before you can take action to find out what you need to do to make yourself better, and to let go of the resentments that you may have.
Before I could work on me, I had to let go of the resentments. I had to forgive, but I did need to do the "looking back" thing.
As a child, I had no voice. As an adult I did, but I didn't know it.
So I just kept letting other voices run my life. Guess that is what I tried to numb.
I did have a voice as a adult, I just i didn't know it.
I cannot change another person, but I can change me. I can learn to forgive, and not dwell in the past. I can know what I want now, and I can do it.
Wow, it took me a long time to realize that most of my life I spent dwelling in the past trying to change things that I couldn't. But the most important lesson I got from that is "why" I was like I was, and "what" I can do about it now.
It is important to find out what bothers you, and to learn coping skills for that, I think that it is unproductive to stay in the past and to dwell on things when you have no control over that.
Guess this is easy for me to say, since pretty much most of my life, I did know what was wrong. So I can't speak for everyone. Some people need years and years and years to get over the past. And that's OK also.
For the question, nature, nuture, I would agree both are true.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: South East England
Posts: 8,009
I had to get sober first and foremost.
Only with some sober time came clarity of thought and the ability to face some really unpleasant stuff from my childhood under the guidance of my therapist.
The more I unravel my issues, the more I understand who I am. That I'm hoping will make me less likely to follow old unhealthy patterns of behaviour and relapse.
But none of this can be achieved if I'm still caught in that drinking/relapse cycle. I needed to put all my energies into staying sober first.
Only with some sober time came clarity of thought and the ability to face some really unpleasant stuff from my childhood under the guidance of my therapist.
The more I unravel my issues, the more I understand who I am. That I'm hoping will make me less likely to follow old unhealthy patterns of behaviour and relapse.
But none of this can be achieved if I'm still caught in that drinking/relapse cycle. I needed to put all my energies into staying sober first.
Breaking Thru
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: SW Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,219
Good stuff for my toolbox , thanks guys
Scott : a good point , we do need to learn to live sober, but whether we choose to look back or not though is by choice . Like amy said , though , we didn't just one day say
" whoops I'm an alchoholic " .
Nef : Good stuff You got me thinking. If I have stress or am not happy I pick up a crack pipe, wha la, instant happiness. The next guy though grabs food , the next guy gambles or maybe the next guy be raves his mate. All choices for coping , conscious or unconscious , for how to make the moment , better
Scott : a good point , we do need to learn to live sober, but whether we choose to look back or not though is by choice . Like amy said , though , we didn't just one day say
" whoops I'm an alchoholic " .
Nef : Good stuff You got me thinking. If I have stress or am not happy I pick up a crack pipe, wha la, instant happiness. The next guy though grabs food , the next guy gambles or maybe the next guy be raves his mate. All choices for coping , conscious or unconscious , for how to make the moment , better
Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Pa
Posts: 4,872
Sometimes we just need to sit through the pain, instead of numbing ourselves. The more we numb, the more we shame ourselves.
riky, you found a great place when you found SR. You can vent here, you can go thru your feelings here, and we are here with you.
riky, you found a great place when you found SR. You can vent here, you can go thru your feelings here, and we are here with you.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Gulf Coast, Florida USA
Posts: 5,731
Originally Posted by trikyriky
Good stuff for my toolbox , thanks guys
Scott : a good point , whether we choose to look back or not though is by choice . Like amy said , though , we didn't just one day say " whoops I'm an alchoholic " .
Nef : Good stuff You got me thinking. If I have stress or am not happy I pick up a crack pipe, wha la, instant happiness. The next guy though grabs food , the next guy gambles or maybe the next guy be raves his mate. All choices for coping for how to make the moment , better
Scott : a good point , whether we choose to look back or not though is by choice . Like amy said , though , we didn't just one day say " whoops I'm an alchoholic " .
Nef : Good stuff You got me thinking. If I have stress or am not happy I pick up a crack pipe, wha la, instant happiness. The next guy though grabs food , the next guy gambles or maybe the next guy be raves his mate. All choices for coping for how to make the moment , better
Too high Expectations! Of People, situautions, life. Life doesn't meet my expectations I go get messed up.
Searching for and revealing these behaviors and thinking patterns and rooting them out one by one, eventually removed the obsession from me to use. Acceptance was and is the answer.
Recovery is an inside job. One I will be working on for the rest of my life. With the guidance of another recovering alcoholic, called my sponsor. To check my thinking. My thinking is the problem.
Breaking Thru
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: SW Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,219
Deek : I'm glad you joined us. You're opinion is always welcome. I still have problems with the 90 in 90 , but do attend NA meetings. I like the 12 step concept too but the 90 in 90 , it's just not always possible. We are all of different ages , circumstances. We can't all just put our lives on hold.
Not trying to make this an AA or NA debate , please
Tr
Not trying to make this an AA or NA debate , please
Tr
Forum Leader
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 16,945
Originally Posted by nomis
With all due respect, I have to agree to disagree on this one. I think it is vital for recovery to understand the underlying reasons that caused addiction in the first place.
The vast majority of people on this planet are not addicts, yet some of us are. If you get sober, but the causes of your addiction are still present and you're not addressing them, then it's going to be tough not to relapse.
Fundamentally I don't believe people become addicts for no apparent reason. It's not good enough, for me anyways to say "Oops became an alcoholic, gotta stop doing that".
Scott you say everything in your life was great, maybe. But I would suggest that there are perfectly good reasons you developed an a problem with alcohol. It wasn't just a random cosmic coincidence.
Anyways, don't want to step on too many toes here, but did want to point out that the hard evidence is out there. Addiction is medically explainable phenomenon now. That still hasn't reached wide-spread public consciousness, but the sooner it does, the sooner the stigma will begin to recede and people can start getting the help when they need it.
The vast majority of people on this planet are not addicts, yet some of us are. If you get sober, but the causes of your addiction are still present and you're not addressing them, then it's going to be tough not to relapse.
Fundamentally I don't believe people become addicts for no apparent reason. It's not good enough, for me anyways to say "Oops became an alcoholic, gotta stop doing that".
Scott you say everything in your life was great, maybe. But I would suggest that there are perfectly good reasons you developed an a problem with alcohol. It wasn't just a random cosmic coincidence.
Anyways, don't want to step on too many toes here, but did want to point out that the hard evidence is out there. Addiction is medically explainable phenomenon now. That still hasn't reached wide-spread public consciousness, but the sooner it does, the sooner the stigma will begin to recede and people can start getting the help when they need it.
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