Are You "Different"?
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 3,550
Odelle: You can get it back. I did. And, like you, I feel alienated by the society in which I find myself. Maybe alienated is not the word. They accept me in their own way but I feel they hardly know me, nor I them, As if I am in a different galaxy, increasingly remote from theirs. Since I am now old, my galaxy consists mainly of memories, some fond, some beautiful, some filled with regret, shame and guilt. But despite all of this, I have come back to the person I was, before the alcohol took it all away, now sadder, hopefully wiser but thankful to have survived.
W.
W.
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Melbourne, Victoria Australia
Posts: 1,202
With respect to the OP wpainter - who I gather is an older n wiser person with more years of sobriety than most of us:
I believe that, yes, I am different. Just as every single one of us is different from the other.
It annoys me a bit when, in recovery circles, the effects on us of alcohol, the chemical (as w pointed out, it is 'just' a chemical) gets too easily conflated with some essential part of our beings. When that's accepted as some kind of natural law , then, it's assumed - incorrectly in my view - that our behaviours under alcohol WILL 'make' us into someone different.
No: science - long after the origins of the terminal uniqueness idea - merely notes that various changes occur in our bodily systems, such that we behave differently. Those behaviours indeed range across a huge spectrum, from the relatively benign right through to quite horrific stuff.
What is rarely taken into account by those holding this view is that we have also been subject to a huge other range of factors, from the day we were born. That combination of factors is what makes each and every one of us totally unique. Dare I repeat it: totally unique.
In this regard, and in my own life experience of not quite 60 years, probably about 95% of people in my life clearly didn't 'understand' me, as in who I am. This was the case long before I started drinking - not that some kind of 'start date' can be easily put on a graph in my life. It remained so, through various years and experiences when I sometimes drank, and sometimes didn't. It remained so in the years when I did drink very heavily; through the past 2 years or so of several detoxes, rehabs and relapses, with decent periods of sobriety in there as well.
Am I different? Because or when I drink? Because or when I'm not drinking?
Too right I am. I am me.
To be sure, I've experienced many similar things to those experienced or done by other alcoholics. But I've also experienced many similar things to those experienced or done by other mothers, young women, older women, workers, citizens, pet owners, gardeners, academics, readers, writers...grocery shoppers. People on disability pensions. People in chronic pain, in dire financial straits and in great financial circumstances.....and so on, and so on.
Yes, it's quite comforting to join with others who are struggling with addiction or recovery from addiction. Absolutely. But please, I don't and won't subscribe to the 'you're not terminally unique' strain of that.
I believe that, yes, I am different. Just as every single one of us is different from the other.
It annoys me a bit when, in recovery circles, the effects on us of alcohol, the chemical (as w pointed out, it is 'just' a chemical) gets too easily conflated with some essential part of our beings. When that's accepted as some kind of natural law , then, it's assumed - incorrectly in my view - that our behaviours under alcohol WILL 'make' us into someone different.
No: science - long after the origins of the terminal uniqueness idea - merely notes that various changes occur in our bodily systems, such that we behave differently. Those behaviours indeed range across a huge spectrum, from the relatively benign right through to quite horrific stuff.
What is rarely taken into account by those holding this view is that we have also been subject to a huge other range of factors, from the day we were born. That combination of factors is what makes each and every one of us totally unique. Dare I repeat it: totally unique.
In this regard, and in my own life experience of not quite 60 years, probably about 95% of people in my life clearly didn't 'understand' me, as in who I am. This was the case long before I started drinking - not that some kind of 'start date' can be easily put on a graph in my life. It remained so, through various years and experiences when I sometimes drank, and sometimes didn't. It remained so in the years when I did drink very heavily; through the past 2 years or so of several detoxes, rehabs and relapses, with decent periods of sobriety in there as well.
Am I different? Because or when I drink? Because or when I'm not drinking?
Too right I am. I am me.
To be sure, I've experienced many similar things to those experienced or done by other alcoholics. But I've also experienced many similar things to those experienced or done by other mothers, young women, older women, workers, citizens, pet owners, gardeners, academics, readers, writers...grocery shoppers. People on disability pensions. People in chronic pain, in dire financial straits and in great financial circumstances.....and so on, and so on.
Yes, it's quite comforting to join with others who are struggling with addiction or recovery from addiction. Absolutely. But please, I don't and won't subscribe to the 'you're not terminally unique' strain of that.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 3,550
bemyself:
I am sorry that apparently I might have irritated you by posting this thread. I am not "older and wiser" than any of you. Well yes, I guess I may be older than some but I can't do much about that. The only thing I can do is speak from my own experience. And that is that for years I thought I was "different". That I might be able to control my drinking. Eventually I found that this was not the case.
It was not my intention to make anyone on this site feel uncomfortable. Or be judgmental or preach. I just wanted to be able to say how it was with me. Frankly, I'm a bit depressed today because of other things and sometimes I think that it's not really worth putting up any more threads, any more posts. I've said what I had to say. It's time for me to say goodbye. In the military the bugler sometimes sounds what is called "the last post". It's time for that bugler to sound. May the light shine upon all of you and may your days be happy and joyful.
W.
I am sorry that apparently I might have irritated you by posting this thread. I am not "older and wiser" than any of you. Well yes, I guess I may be older than some but I can't do much about that. The only thing I can do is speak from my own experience. And that is that for years I thought I was "different". That I might be able to control my drinking. Eventually I found that this was not the case.
It was not my intention to make anyone on this site feel uncomfortable. Or be judgmental or preach. I just wanted to be able to say how it was with me. Frankly, I'm a bit depressed today because of other things and sometimes I think that it's not really worth putting up any more threads, any more posts. I've said what I had to say. It's time for me to say goodbye. In the military the bugler sometimes sounds what is called "the last post". It's time for that bugler to sound. May the light shine upon all of you and may your days be happy and joyful.
W.
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SoCal, California
Posts: 990
wpainterw
I sure hope you're not leaving because of one random post by somebody with an axe to grind. Sometimes folks can get riled up about the oddest things.
For instance this thread is one that really struck a chord with me and many others. We found that we convinced ourselves that we were "different" and we could moderate our alcohol consumption. We weren't like the folks that got sucked into addiction. We're special.
Of course that was an illusion.
So, thanks for your threads, posts and thoughts. I hope you return and share again.
I sure hope you're not leaving because of one random post by somebody with an axe to grind. Sometimes folks can get riled up about the oddest things.
For instance this thread is one that really struck a chord with me and many others. We found that we convinced ourselves that we were "different" and we could moderate our alcohol consumption. We weren't like the folks that got sucked into addiction. We're special.
Of course that was an illusion.
So, thanks for your threads, posts and thoughts. I hope you return and share again.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Melbourne, Victoria Australia
Posts: 1,202
As the offending irritant, I want to apologise.
Yes, I get on my high horse at times....when I let inner frustrations get the better of me. So again, sorry.
W has pm'd me, with a lovely and very moving message, which I saw earlier this morning. And I replied with gratitude.
Yes, I get on my high horse at times....when I let inner frustrations get the better of me. So again, sorry.
W has pm'd me, with a lovely and very moving message, which I saw earlier this morning. And I replied with gratitude.
p***enger
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: NYC
Posts: 19,047
This is a wonderful thread, not least because of the interaction going on between people posting, real dialogue, not just throwing out your 2cents.
I myself treasure up ideas of my own uniqueness because they make it easier for me to be isolating, rejecting of others, disinterested, proud -- in short, alcoholic. I'm finding it incredibly difficult since I stopped drinking to focus on other people's experiences and relate to other human beings in terms of what we have in common. But I'm convinced that's where any sanity I achieve will lie.
I myself treasure up ideas of my own uniqueness because they make it easier for me to be isolating, rejecting of others, disinterested, proud -- in short, alcoholic. I'm finding it incredibly difficult since I stopped drinking to focus on other people's experiences and relate to other human beings in terms of what we have in common. But I'm convinced that's where any sanity I achieve will lie.
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 3,550
Thanks everyone. And, like a true card carrying alcoholic, I guess I overreacted. What seems to me interesting is that, to the extent that I was "under the influence" (yes that's the time honored term!) of the "beast" as it's called by AVRT, I was not really "different" from other alcoholics, although I sure thought I was to the extent that I thought I could "control" my drinking. That was really the "beast" talking. I thought it was "me" and it was really that my midbrain had taken over. This was particularly true when I stopped drinking since the removal of the alcohol enraged the beast and it doubled its efforts, swamping what was left of my "rational" brain with false confidence, setting me up for an eventual relapse. I needed help from the outside, as it happened from an AA agnostics group, although I never had a real "sponsor" nor did I do the "steps" in any conventional or dogmatic way. AA gave me support and some structure nevertheless and I eventually emerged from the jungle and hopefully the beast is in the supermax, doing hard time in solitary. Now I can truly say I'm "different". Before, when I thought that I was "different",it was merely the "beast" setting me up. AVRT provides some of the theory which has resulted from scientific research (like the physiological changes in the neuron's receptors and alcohol's effect on the neurotransmitters) and AA, as well as some other programs, broadly interpreted, have, at least for some, provided structure and support.
W.
W.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 3,550
P.S. Maybe an appropriate way to put the whole thing might be to say that continued sobriety helped me to "Bemyself"! Now I can say that I'm truly "different". Before that when I was drinking I was no different than any other member of the alcoholic chain gang. (Although i may have thought of myself as "Cool Hand Luke")!
W.
W.
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