Another Moderation Update
Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Cleveland, OH
Posts: 1,191
Originally Posted by zimmy 
Please explain to me why someone doesn't have a choice to drink or not drink if they are an alcoholic? Isn't a recovering alcoholic a person who decided to stop drinking?
Clear Eyes Full Heart
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,272
I don't think there's any simple way to explain it. Yes, everyone has a choice whether or not they'll pick up the drink or not. On the other hand, thousands of alcoholics are here on SR because they are fighting not to be addicted. It's not some easy thing to just decide "I'm not a drinker any more" for an alcoholic. The people that it's not a big deal to aren't here on SR.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 20,458
or it was a big deal at one point due to other circumstances in their lives.
When I found SR, I was spiraling downward due to terrible events, my mother was dying and battling both advanced dementia and bone cancer....my LTR (Mr. Fandy) loved gambling more than me and we split. I was working and juggling and drinking to blot out the world....I found SR during a drunken google search and it saved me from getting worse. I've tripped, slipped and picked my buttisimo up, faked it until i could make it...and am very grateful.
I practice the attitude of gratitude, it's something i learned here from others...
When I found SR, I was spiraling downward due to terrible events, my mother was dying and battling both advanced dementia and bone cancer....my LTR (Mr. Fandy) loved gambling more than me and we split. I was working and juggling and drinking to blot out the world....I found SR during a drunken google search and it saved me from getting worse. I've tripped, slipped and picked my buttisimo up, faked it until i could make it...and am very grateful.
I practice the attitude of gratitude, it's something i learned here from others...
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,947
Originally Posted by zimmy
I don't understand the AA "I'm a helpless victim with a disease" mantra.
That's fine that you can moderate and all, good for you! And apparently, you want to share it with all of us who can't!! That's OK too... I see my wife have her nightly tall white wine spritzer, well, actually, I don't even notice it anymore... I don't know how reading your experience in moderation helps us, here on an alcoholism recovery site, but whatever...
It does get irritating after awhile to hear people mischaracterize AA, and that puts it mildly, when they know nothing about the program.
Self recovered Self discovered
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 5,148
Alcoholism is a disease recognized by the American Medical Association. Its not a theory.
I agree with some of what you said, Zimmy, what else could a recovering alcoholic be than someone who decided to quit and took action to do so? The folks who have come to SR have done so because of their inability to do what you believe you are doing now. I wish you well, Zimmy, some folks do indeed moderate their drinking, but it is a very unpopular position to advertise around here. Expect the heavy artillery. Best to you.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: San Diego
Posts: 522
Zimmy, congrats on your moderation. Sure, moderation can work for some.
But moderation can never work for an alcoholic.
Just as you don't understand alcoholism, I don't understand moderation.
The idea of 2 or 3 pints 2 or 3 times a week makes no sense to me.
I assure you no one here wants you to develop into an alcoholic.
I wouldn't wish the hell of active alcoholism on anyone.
Fortunately for me, and many many others, there's a solution.
All the best,
SD
But moderation can never work for an alcoholic.
Just as you don't understand alcoholism, I don't understand moderation.
The idea of 2 or 3 pints 2 or 3 times a week makes no sense to me.
I assure you no one here wants you to develop into an alcoholic.
I wouldn't wish the hell of active alcoholism on anyone.
Fortunately for me, and many many others, there's a solution.
All the best,
SD
A Day at a Time
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Grand Rapids MI
Posts: 6,435
Originally Posted by Mark75
Where did you hear that, at AA, did you read it in the book? Seriously???
That's fine that you can moderate and all, good for you! And apparently, you want to share it with all of us who can't!! That's OK too... I see my wife have her nightly tall white wine spritzer, well, actually, I don't even notice it anymore... I don't know how reading your experience in moderation helps us, here on an alcoholism recovery site, but whatever...
It does get irritating after awhile to hear people mischaracterize AA, and that puts it mildly, when they know nothing about the program.
That's fine that you can moderate and all, good for you! And apparently, you want to share it with all of us who can't!! That's OK too... I see my wife have her nightly tall white wine spritzer, well, actually, I don't even notice it anymore... I don't know how reading your experience in moderation helps us, here on an alcoholism recovery site, but whatever...
It does get irritating after awhile to hear people mischaracterize AA, and that puts it mildly, when they know nothing about the program.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,947
Originally Posted by freshstart57
some folks do indeed moderate their drinking, but it is a very unpopular position to advertise around here.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Cleveland, OH
Posts: 1,191
Originally Posted by freshstart57
Please do some research on this statement, the credibility of its source, whether it represents American doctors. See what other proclamations and endorsements the AMA has made and the resulting fraud charges and convictions. For a real eye opener, see if you can locate what the Journal of American Medicine had to say on October 14, 1939. You may want to walk back your statement before you quote the AMA as an authority on anything.
I agree with some of what you said, Zimmy, what else could a recovering alcoholic be than someone who decided to quit and took action to do so? The folks who have come to SR have done so because of their inability to do what you believe you are doing now. I wish you well, Zimmy, some folks do indeed moderate their drinking, but it is a very unpopular position to advertise around here. Expect the heavy artillery. Best to you.
I agree with some of what you said, Zimmy, what else could a recovering alcoholic be than someone who decided to quit and took action to do so? The folks who have come to SR have done so because of their inability to do what you believe you are doing now. I wish you well, Zimmy, some folks do indeed moderate their drinking, but it is a very unpopular position to advertise around here. Expect the heavy artillery. Best to you.
" Alcoholism is a primary, chronic disease with genetic, psychosocial, and environmental factors influencing its development and manifestations. The disease is often progressive and fatal. It is characterized by continuous or periodic: impaired control over drinking, preoccupation with the drug alcohol, use of alcohol despite adverse consequences, and distortions in thinking, most notably denial ."
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 20,458
I think that this thread was started by a newcomer who feels he is having success and he also voiced that he may want to quit.
It's not a DEBATE on AA principles. Obviously Zimmy doesn't practice AA.
good grief! there must be something in the water this week???
It's not a DEBATE on AA principles. Obviously Zimmy doesn't practice AA.
good grief! there must be something in the water this week???
Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: California
Posts: 13,044
Hi Zimmy,
First, sorry you were dealing with some difficult things in your life, I think we can all relate to spiraling during difficult times.
I too have tried moderation, and thought I could handle it. I realize that I can't. One glass of wine leads to a bottle, and then a larger bottle.
It seems like you are making positive choices that work for you. I wish you all of the best with that.
First, sorry you were dealing with some difficult things in your life, I think we can all relate to spiraling during difficult times.
I too have tried moderation, and thought I could handle it. I realize that I can't. One glass of wine leads to a bottle, and then a larger bottle.
It seems like you are making positive choices that work for you. I wish you all of the best with that.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: South
Posts: 226
Originally Posted by Fandy
I think that this thread was started by a newcomer who feels he is having success and he also voiced that he may want to quit.
It's not a DEBATE on AA principles. Obviously Zimmy doesn't practice AA.
good grief! there must be something in the water this week???
It's not a DEBATE on AA principles. Obviously Zimmy doesn't practice AA.
good grief! there must be something in the water this week???
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 34
Originally Posted by Mark75
Where did you hear that, at AA, did you read it in the book? Seriously???
That's fine that you can moderate and all, good for you! And apparently, you want to share it with all of us who can't!! That's OK too... I see my wife have her nightly tall white wine spritzer, well, actually, I don't even notice it anymore... I don't know how reading your experience in moderation helps us, here on an alcoholism recovery site, but whatever...
It does get irritating after awhile to hear people mischaracterize AA, and that puts it mildly, when they know nothing about the program.
That's fine that you can moderate and all, good for you! And apparently, you want to share it with all of us who can't!! That's OK too... I see my wife have her nightly tall white wine spritzer, well, actually, I don't even notice it anymore... I don't know how reading your experience in moderation helps us, here on an alcoholism recovery site, but whatever...
It does get irritating after awhile to hear people mischaracterize AA, and that puts it mildly, when they know nothing about the program.
By promoting alcoholism as a disease that can't be fought by willpower alone, they are creating lifelong customers to their program. Smart business but bad science.
Anyone can stop drinking. Just take control over your life and do it. Admit that you've screwed up in the past and take full personal responsibility for your actions. It's not a disease nor an allergy. It's a willful escape from reality.
Saved By Grace
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Oop North, Furtlin' me Ferrets
Posts: 410
My opinion is that a lot of people get confused into thinking 'oh I must be an alcoholic' when really they have developed a bad habit of self-medicating with drinking over time and a mental reliance on alcohol to relax, relieve boredom, escape reality. I know for myself, I was able to drink in moderation and stick with just beer, but it came with more bad than good so I eventually quit completely. It was a waste of money, it made me want to use my DOC, and I did have a mental obsession which would always tell me 'one-more' or 'what your doing right now will be so much better with a drink in your hand.'
I was golfing the other day and it was sunny out and I really wanted to drink some beer. But the logical side of my brain said, why? Whats the point? Why would you want to start up the habit of drinking regularly when it's only a waste of money and hurts your mind/body. I know for me, I'm an addict with an addictive personality. I will become addicted to anything that I like too much. I never liked cocaine, therefore I never got addicted, even though other people might. I loved drinking & opiates, therefore I became addicted to them. I go to AA almost everyday and the people there are great and really do try to help newcomers but I can't help noticing a lot of them whining, never listening, bragging about their clean time, and using the rooms of AA for therapy and a place to vent about personal problems unrelated to drinking. Also are quick to tell you without God, a sponsor, regular meetings, and the 12 steps you will end up in jail, death, or go crazy. I don't buy that. I also don't buy the belief that a problem drinker or 'alcoholic' can never go back to drinking in a beneficial or non-harmful way. It's my belief that there are more problem drinkers, heavy drinkers, and people who just drink out of habit or boredom than AA cares to admit. Labeling ourselves alcoholic is a convienant way to explain our selfish, dishonest, and downright dispicable behaviors of the past. Too many people think because they got a DUI, blacked-out, or said/did some stupid things they must be alcoholic. It's possible, and if alcohol is hurting your life I would recomend you check out AA and listen to the 'old-timers'. But please, think for yourself, take what you hear with a grain of salt, and don't believe everything they say is the absolute truth. They see things as being black or white, there is no grey.
I was golfing the other day and it was sunny out and I really wanted to drink some beer. But the logical side of my brain said, why? Whats the point? Why would you want to start up the habit of drinking regularly when it's only a waste of money and hurts your mind/body. I know for me, I'm an addict with an addictive personality. I will become addicted to anything that I like too much. I never liked cocaine, therefore I never got addicted, even though other people might. I loved drinking & opiates, therefore I became addicted to them. I go to AA almost everyday and the people there are great and really do try to help newcomers but I can't help noticing a lot of them whining, never listening, bragging about their clean time, and using the rooms of AA for therapy and a place to vent about personal problems unrelated to drinking. Also are quick to tell you without God, a sponsor, regular meetings, and the 12 steps you will end up in jail, death, or go crazy. I don't buy that. I also don't buy the belief that a problem drinker or 'alcoholic' can never go back to drinking in a beneficial or non-harmful way. It's my belief that there are more problem drinkers, heavy drinkers, and people who just drink out of habit or boredom than AA cares to admit. Labeling ourselves alcoholic is a convienant way to explain our selfish, dishonest, and downright dispicable behaviors of the past. Too many people think because they got a DUI, blacked-out, or said/did some stupid things they must be alcoholic. It's possible, and if alcohol is hurting your life I would recomend you check out AA and listen to the 'old-timers'. But please, think for yourself, take what you hear with a grain of salt, and don't believe everything they say is the absolute truth. They see things as being black or white, there is no grey.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 20,458
Zimmy as you aclimate to SR, you'll read that some people will promote their methods (whether you ask about them or not) and some people will respond to the topic in the title.
I'm glad you have been able to overcome your obsticles and stopped drinking to the point where you made yourself ill, be grateful that you still have a choice to do this...many of us just can't.
I'm glad you have been able to overcome your obsticles and stopped drinking to the point where you made yourself ill, be grateful that you still have a choice to do this...many of us just can't.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Cleveland, OH
Posts: 1,191
Originally Posted by zimmy
There is no question that AA promotes the concept of alcoholism is a disease or even more outrageously "an allergy". Allergy? I have allergies to animals and pollen. The immune system overreacts to these proteins and release histamine. Alcohol allergy that causes someone to overconsume? Please.
By promoting alcoholism as a disease that can't be fought by willpower alone, they are creating lifelong customers to their program. Smart business but bad science.
Anyone can stop drinking. Just take control over your life and do it. Admit that you've screwed up in the past and take full personal responsibility for your actions. It's not a disease nor an allergy. It's a willful escape from reality.
By promoting alcoholism as a disease that can't be fought by willpower alone, they are creating lifelong customers to their program. Smart business but bad science.
Anyone can stop drinking. Just take control over your life and do it. Admit that you've screwed up in the past and take full personal responsibility for your actions. It's not a disease nor an allergy. It's a willful escape from reality.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,947
Originally Posted by zimmy
There is no question that AA promotes the concept of alcoholism is a disease or even more outrageously "an allergy". Allergy? I have allergies to animals and pollen. The immune system overreacts to these proteins and release histamine. Alcohol allergy that causes someone to overconsume? Please.
By promoting alcoholism as a disease that can't be fought by willpower alone, they are creating lifelong customers to their program. Smart business but bad science.
Anyone can stop drinking. Just take control over your life and do it. Admit that you've screwed up in the past and take full personal responsibility for your actions. It's not a disease nor an allergy. It's a willful escape from reality.
By promoting alcoholism as a disease that can't be fought by willpower alone, they are creating lifelong customers to their program. Smart business but bad science.
Anyone can stop drinking. Just take control over your life and do it. Admit that you've screwed up in the past and take full personal responsibility for your actions. It's not a disease nor an allergy. It's a willful escape from reality.
A Day at a Time
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Grand Rapids MI
Posts: 6,435
I do not understand the whole point of this thread. The people on this site have choosen abstinace. The name of the site is Sober Recovery. Not Mostly Sober Recovery. You have decided your are not an alcoholic, you can control your drinking, there is not a problem. Great! Move on and enjoy a happy healthy life.
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