A realization
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A realization
I thought I was a high functioning alcoholic in that I have a good education and a good career and people think I am successful and have my act together.
Now I realize my life is actually quite dysfunctional. I am disorganized, messy, lazy, unproductive... this is true when I don't drink and especially true when I do drink.
I manage to make it look like I have it all together, I guess because I do want to be successful and I care about outside appearances as well as my own financial independence/security. But my daily life is out of control and I am dysfunctional as I try to function, if that makes sense.
I don't know how I manage to keep it all together on the outside but it certainly takes a toll on me inside. Not drinking and going to AA didn't really "cure" this problem and I have been to therapy quite a bit so I'm not sure what else I should do. :-/ Obviously besides not drink.
Now I realize my life is actually quite dysfunctional. I am disorganized, messy, lazy, unproductive... this is true when I don't drink and especially true when I do drink.
I manage to make it look like I have it all together, I guess because I do want to be successful and I care about outside appearances as well as my own financial independence/security. But my daily life is out of control and I am dysfunctional as I try to function, if that makes sense.
I don't know how I manage to keep it all together on the outside but it certainly takes a toll on me inside. Not drinking and going to AA didn't really "cure" this problem and I have been to therapy quite a bit so I'm not sure what else I should do. :-/ Obviously besides not drink.
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Going to AA isn't a cure - There is no cure for alcoholism. AA, or any other program for that matter won't work if you don't put everything you have into it.
Going to AA is part of it. Listening to what you're being told another, but doing what they tell you to do is the biggest part. Step 1 deals with alcohol. The rest deal with how to get sober and clean up your life.
When you went to AA where were you on the steps? There's a saying that, "You can be on the right track, but if you're not moving the train is going to catch up and run you down"
Going to AA is part of it. Listening to what you're being told another, but doing what they tell you to do is the biggest part. Step 1 deals with alcohol. The rest deal with how to get sober and clean up your life.
When you went to AA where were you on the steps? There's a saying that, "You can be on the right track, but if you're not moving the train is going to catch up and run you down"
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Originally Posted by FredG 
Going to AA isn't a cure - There is no cure for alcoholism. AA, or any other program for that matter won't work if you don't put everything you have into it.
Going to AA is part of it. Listening to what you're being told another, but doing what they tell you to do is the biggest part. Step 1 deals with alcohol. The rest deal with how to get sober and clean up your life.
When you went to AA where were you on the steps? There's a saying that, "You can be on the right track, but if you're not moving the train is going to catch up and run you down"
Going to AA is part of it. Listening to what you're being told another, but doing what they tell you to do is the biggest part. Step 1 deals with alcohol. The rest deal with how to get sober and clean up your life.
When you went to AA where were you on the steps? There's a saying that, "You can be on the right track, but if you're not moving the train is going to catch up and run you down"
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Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 328
I had a similar realization recently.
I never tried to keep up appearances, rather the contrary in fact, but I always thought I was very functional and keeping it in check. I thought I partied hard because I worked hard and I could handle it. Maybe none of us were quite as functional as we liked to think.
As for what you could do about being messy/lazy/unproductive, besides not drinking, how about caring a little less? It's paradoxal but I've found that I'm at my most productive and organized when I keep my duties in mind but don't put too much pressure on myself.
I never tried to keep up appearances, rather the contrary in fact, but I always thought I was very functional and keeping it in check. I thought I partied hard because I worked hard and I could handle it. Maybe none of us were quite as functional as we liked to think.
As for what you could do about being messy/lazy/unproductive, besides not drinking, how about caring a little less? It's paradoxal but I've found that I'm at my most productive and organized when I keep my duties in mind but don't put too much pressure on myself.
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Canada. About as far south as you can get
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Originally Posted by Pigtails
I was on Step 4. I couldn't get past the higher power/religious aspect of it.
I strongly suggest you go back to AA and discuss your problem with your sponsor and the other oldtimers.
All the best.
Bob R
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,410
If you need outside support and don't buy in to the god concept then AA will never work for you. Which I can never understand when this question comes AA members will always use any excuse under the sun to change the person mind on that. The good thing about recovery problem is that AA is not the only problem out they that can help you.
Look in to SOS, secular sobriety, SMART, Rational Recovery and many more to try to stay sober. Only just use SR as your recovery problem. Good luck.
Look in to SOS, secular sobriety, SMART, Rational Recovery and many more to try to stay sober. Only just use SR as your recovery problem. Good luck.
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: SAN FRANCISCO
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Well at some point you need to accept yourself for who you are, Maybe you don't have it all together but does anyone? We all have flaws, I'm messy and disorganized too but it's part of my personality type...
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Pigtails, it was quite a shock for me to realize that I wasn't the person that I had thought I was, the person that I put out there. Early recovery forced me to look very hard at where I was in my life, what successes I'd had and what failures I'd had. What did I want/need to change? The most important change for me was to say 'No' when I meant it, and not feel guilty. So, I started taking small steps, one issue at a time. And, it worked and my comfort level with myself grew.
My suggestion would be to prioritize things that you want/need to organize and start slowly. Accomplish something each day, and see if your thinking begins to change.
My suggestion would be to prioritize things that you want/need to organize and start slowly. Accomplish something each day, and see if your thinking begins to change.
Sober since Jan 1, 2012
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,583
Wow, I could have written that post Pigtails. My home AA group is full of people like you (and me). I can completely relate to your struggles with God in AA. I too felt just like you.
Before I quit drinking, I decided I knew all about AA and that it was a God thumper group.
But when I quit, I was desperate for it to be for good, so I immersed myself in the program and ignored any God talk. Now, I'm not quite as bristled when I hear talk about God, because I realize that when people say God, they don't always mean, our lord the savior or some dude in the sky with a white beard. Sometimes, they say "God" because it's easier to say it, so that others can identify. I've been told that describing their HP is hard so they just stick with God -- it doesn't mean they are Bible thumpers.
It sometimes means they are spiritual, trying to be in tune with the universe, you know? And that's what I want. I want to be in tune with the universe. Not considered some freak on the outskirts because I don't embrace jesus christ our lord and savior. And guess what? I'm slowly beginning to feel that way (not a freak - LOL).
I sit next to Buddhists and Atheists and Christians and Jews and Muslims. Well, one Muslim that I know of. And they have loooong term sobriety. I said to myself, well, heck, if they can do it so can I!
These people I come across in my mtgs are so welcoming, so non-judgmental, so...happy. And I choose to believe them when they say getting sober in AA is not about God, but about GOD (group of drunks).
In any case, I one thing I noticed about your post is you said AA didn't "cure" you - I know what you meant by cure by the way ---- but, you were only on step 4. You do realize there are another 8 steps??
I told myself, alright self, you are going to get sober. You are going to be one of those people in their 50s, 60s (I'm 40) who talks about 20 yrs ago getting sober. And you are going to give this program a chance, you are going to do it, ALL of it -- and then you will make a decision/judgment about AA.
I strongly suggest you do what Fred says, in doing what they say. How do you think they got sober? They aren't any different than you. Go back, give it a real honest try, see it through to the very end. At least do all the steps. Talk about it, talk to others, talk to your sponsor, go to mtgs regularly (that's how I began to make friends).
I really hope this helps you. I know you've been through a really tough time lately. I felt so sad reading one of your posts the other day. I'm online all the time so feel free to write me privately too.
Before I quit drinking, I decided I knew all about AA and that it was a God thumper group.
But when I quit, I was desperate for it to be for good, so I immersed myself in the program and ignored any God talk. Now, I'm not quite as bristled when I hear talk about God, because I realize that when people say God, they don't always mean, our lord the savior or some dude in the sky with a white beard. Sometimes, they say "God" because it's easier to say it, so that others can identify. I've been told that describing their HP is hard so they just stick with God -- it doesn't mean they are Bible thumpers.
It sometimes means they are spiritual, trying to be in tune with the universe, you know? And that's what I want. I want to be in tune with the universe. Not considered some freak on the outskirts because I don't embrace jesus christ our lord and savior. And guess what? I'm slowly beginning to feel that way (not a freak - LOL).
I sit next to Buddhists and Atheists and Christians and Jews and Muslims. Well, one Muslim that I know of. And they have loooong term sobriety. I said to myself, well, heck, if they can do it so can I!
These people I come across in my mtgs are so welcoming, so non-judgmental, so...happy. And I choose to believe them when they say getting sober in AA is not about God, but about GOD (group of drunks).
In any case, I one thing I noticed about your post is you said AA didn't "cure" you - I know what you meant by cure by the way ---- but, you were only on step 4. You do realize there are another 8 steps??
I told myself, alright self, you are going to get sober. You are going to be one of those people in their 50s, 60s (I'm 40) who talks about 20 yrs ago getting sober. And you are going to give this program a chance, you are going to do it, ALL of it -- and then you will make a decision/judgment about AA.
I strongly suggest you do what Fred says, in doing what they say. How do you think they got sober? They aren't any different than you. Go back, give it a real honest try, see it through to the very end. At least do all the steps. Talk about it, talk to others, talk to your sponsor, go to mtgs regularly (that's how I began to make friends).
I really hope this helps you. I know you've been through a really tough time lately. I felt so sad reading one of your posts the other day. I'm online all the time so feel free to write me privately too.
Sober since Jan 1, 2012
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,583
After that lengthy post, I realized I forgot to say ---- I thought I was a high functioning alcoholic too - and maybe I was, at work anyhow. It was very hard for me, still is, to go from drinking every day to not, and then go to work and become very unorganized, and forgetful. I had to relearn my job in the sense that I had to create new techniques for the day to day.
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Join Date: Mar 2010
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Originally Posted by Pigtails
I was on Step 4. I couldn't get past the higher power/religious aspect of it. I know people say it isn't religious but to me it was-- it asked me to suspend my reasoning and pray to something and have a spiritual experience. I'm a very rational person and I know people say I have stinkin' thinkin' but I think my problem was not trusting my thoughts/positive instincts enough.
The reality is that some of us, myself included, simply do not find AA suitable. I too had a difficult time with the higher power stuff, not because I don't believe in God (actually, I do) but because I don't believe that God or any outside source provides the power to get sober. I worked my way through all the steps, multiple times, and could never get past that conflict.
But rather than just accepting that it wasn't for me, I spent YEARS doing mental gymnastics. How I wish someone had told me that it was okay not to do that, that it was okay to be who I am and think how I think, that sobriety is not a one-size-fits all thing.
So I'm going to tell you that it really is ok not to use AA. It is a great program for some folks but it is ok if it is not for you. There are a bunch of other approaches. Pick one. Pick bits and pieces of different ones. It will be okay.
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Join Date: Mar 2009
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Originally Posted by onlythetruth
Pigtails: It is absolutely okay not to use the AA program. Please, don't stress about that. There is no need.
The reality is that some of us, myself included, simply do not find AA suitable. I too had a difficult time with the higher power stuff, not because I don't believe in God (actually, I do) but because I don't believe that God or any outside source provides the power to get sober. I worked my way through all the steps, multiple times, and could never get past that conflict.
But rather than just accepting that it wasn't for me, I spent YEARS doing mental gymnastics. How I wish someone had told me that it was okay not to do that, that it was okay to be who I am and think how I think, that sobriety is not a one-size-fits all thing.
So I'm going to tell you that it really is ok not to use AA. It is a great program for some folks but it is ok if it is not for you. There are a bunch of other approaches. Pick one. Pick bits and pieces of different ones. It will be okay.
The reality is that some of us, myself included, simply do not find AA suitable. I too had a difficult time with the higher power stuff, not because I don't believe in God (actually, I do) but because I don't believe that God or any outside source provides the power to get sober. I worked my way through all the steps, multiple times, and could never get past that conflict.
But rather than just accepting that it wasn't for me, I spent YEARS doing mental gymnastics. How I wish someone had told me that it was okay not to do that, that it was okay to be who I am and think how I think, that sobriety is not a one-size-fits all thing.
So I'm going to tell you that it really is ok not to use AA. It is a great program for some folks but it is ok if it is not for you. There are a bunch of other approaches. Pick one. Pick bits and pieces of different ones. It will be okay.
I'm on steps 6&7. Now, AA might not be for me either, but to be fair, I'll do ALL the steps and then make a decision.
Self recovered Self discovered
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 5,148
I couldn't get past the higher power/religious aspect of it. I know people say it isn't religious but to me it was-- it asked me to suspend my reasoning and pray to something.
There is nothing at all wrong with your thinking - clear, rational, evidence based thinking are hallmarks of a strong mind. Please follow your own direction, and be yourself - everyone else is taken already.
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Join Date: Apr 2012
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AA says it isnt for everyone. however, if the big book isnt gone through with someone who has worked the steps and practices the principles daily, i would get some great misconceptions, which i did.
here is what it says in "we agnostics":
In the preceding chapters you have learned something of alcoholism. We hope we have made clear the distinction between the alcoholic and the nonalcoholic. If, when you honestly want to, you find you cannot quit entirely, or if when drinking, you have little control over the amount you take, you are probably alcoholic. If that be the case, you may be suffering from an illness which only a spiritual experience will conquer.
so, this is saying i have read and understand the preceeding chapters and understand who the program is intended for and there is a high probablity that,if i am as alcoholic as described, only a spiritual experience will conquer, which in my case, nothing else i tried worked.
"To one who feels he is an atheist or agnostic such an experience seems impossible, but to continue as he is means disaster, especially if he is an alcoholic of the hopeless variety. To be doomed to an alcoholic death or to live on a spiritual basis are not always easy alternatives to face"
i was hopeless, helpless, useless, and worthless when i got into AA.
"If a mere code of morals or a better philosophy of life were sufficient to overcome alcoholism, many of us would have recovered long ago. But we found that such codes and philosophies did not save us, no matter how much we tried. We could wish to be moral, we could wish to be philosophically comforted, in fact, we could will these things with all our might, but the needed power wasn't there. Our human resources, as marshalled by the will, were not sufficient; they failed utterly."
morals??what morals?? the only time my philosophy worked was on a barstool. there was no one that could help relieve my alcoholism, no matter how hard i tried. i was to the point described in the previous chapters( mentally, emotionally, and spititually.and headed there physically).
"Much to our relief, we discovered we did not need to consider another's conception of God. Our own conception, however inadequate, was sufficient to make the approach and to effect a contact with Him. As soon as we admitted the possible existence of a Creative Intelligence, a Spirit of the Universe underlying the totality of things, we began to be possessed of a new sense of power and direction, provided we took other simple steps. We found that God does not make too hard terms with those who seek Him. To us, the Realm of Spirit is broad, roomy, all inclusive; never exclusive or forbidding to those who earnestly seek. It is open, we believe, to all men.
When, therefore, we speak to you of God, we mean your own conception of God. This applies, too, to other spiritual expressions which you find in this book. Do not let any prejudice you may have against spiritual terms deter you from honestly asking yourself what they mean to you.
pigtails, all we want is to see you get sober, whatever way works. AA has been workin great for me, but it took opening up and seein that even my perception of what the program says was pretty screwed up. thats where my sponsor and others stepped in to teach me. if it doesnt fit for you, thats good. i have hope that you find something that fits you and works.
and they let me have my own perception of a HP. i know a guy who has been using a squirrell for 29 years now as his HP. whether anyone else thinks it right or wrong( even me) doesnt matter. its been workin for him for 29 years.
here is what it says in "we agnostics":
In the preceding chapters you have learned something of alcoholism. We hope we have made clear the distinction between the alcoholic and the nonalcoholic. If, when you honestly want to, you find you cannot quit entirely, or if when drinking, you have little control over the amount you take, you are probably alcoholic. If that be the case, you may be suffering from an illness which only a spiritual experience will conquer.
so, this is saying i have read and understand the preceeding chapters and understand who the program is intended for and there is a high probablity that,if i am as alcoholic as described, only a spiritual experience will conquer, which in my case, nothing else i tried worked.
"To one who feels he is an atheist or agnostic such an experience seems impossible, but to continue as he is means disaster, especially if he is an alcoholic of the hopeless variety. To be doomed to an alcoholic death or to live on a spiritual basis are not always easy alternatives to face"
i was hopeless, helpless, useless, and worthless when i got into AA.
"If a mere code of morals or a better philosophy of life were sufficient to overcome alcoholism, many of us would have recovered long ago. But we found that such codes and philosophies did not save us, no matter how much we tried. We could wish to be moral, we could wish to be philosophically comforted, in fact, we could will these things with all our might, but the needed power wasn't there. Our human resources, as marshalled by the will, were not sufficient; they failed utterly."
morals??what morals?? the only time my philosophy worked was on a barstool. there was no one that could help relieve my alcoholism, no matter how hard i tried. i was to the point described in the previous chapters( mentally, emotionally, and spititually.and headed there physically).
"Much to our relief, we discovered we did not need to consider another's conception of God. Our own conception, however inadequate, was sufficient to make the approach and to effect a contact with Him. As soon as we admitted the possible existence of a Creative Intelligence, a Spirit of the Universe underlying the totality of things, we began to be possessed of a new sense of power and direction, provided we took other simple steps. We found that God does not make too hard terms with those who seek Him. To us, the Realm of Spirit is broad, roomy, all inclusive; never exclusive or forbidding to those who earnestly seek. It is open, we believe, to all men.
When, therefore, we speak to you of God, we mean your own conception of God. This applies, too, to other spiritual expressions which you find in this book. Do not let any prejudice you may have against spiritual terms deter you from honestly asking yourself what they mean to you.
pigtails, all we want is to see you get sober, whatever way works. AA has been workin great for me, but it took opening up and seein that even my perception of what the program says was pretty screwed up. thats where my sponsor and others stepped in to teach me. if it doesnt fit for you, thats good. i have hope that you find something that fits you and works.
and they let me have my own perception of a HP. i know a guy who has been using a squirrell for 29 years now as his HP. whether anyone else thinks it right or wrong( even me) doesnt matter. its been workin for him for 29 years.
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Join Date: Jun 2011
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Hi I'm having a super busy day as I spent all morning at the doctor's due to my miscarriage issue and am now scheduling a flight home and on the phone with my family a lot due to my grandmother's death. So I will post more soon when I can. I appreciate all your words of support during these hard times! Today is my 8th day without drinking!
I appreciate all your words of support during these hard times! Today is my 8th day without drinking!
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