A realization
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Originally Posted by Someguy23 
I had a similar realization recently.
I never tried to keep up appearances, rather the contrary in fact, but I always thought I was very functional and keeping it in check. I thought I partied hard because I worked hard and I could handle it. Maybe none of us were quite as functional as we liked to think.
As for what you could do about being messy/lazy/unproductive, besides not drinking, how about caring a little less? It's paradoxal but I've found that I'm at my most productive and organized when I keep my duties in mind but don't put too much pressure on myself.
I never tried to keep up appearances, rather the contrary in fact, but I always thought I was very functional and keeping it in check. I thought I partied hard because I worked hard and I could handle it. Maybe none of us were quite as functional as we liked to think.
As for what you could do about being messy/lazy/unproductive, besides not drinking, how about caring a little less? It's paradoxal but I've found that I'm at my most productive and organized when I keep my duties in mind but don't put too much pressure on myself.
I'm looking into cognitive behavioral therapy as it seems like I could benefit from something like that.
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Originally Posted by FredG
Try Good Orderly Direction ... or GOD for short.
But put that to the side for now ... how's your way working for you?
But put that to the side for now ... how's your way working for you?
I guess my way is working okay, I don't know. I mean I am having some rough emotional times but it makes me feel prouder and stronger to not drink during them. I feel like I just get emotional and have depression no matter what I do-- drink, don't drink, go to AA, don't go to AA, go to therapy, don't go to therapy... so far I know there's a rational benefit of not drinking but that's about as far as I've gotten.
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Originally Posted by 2granddaughters
How long did you try? .... I've been at it a little over 23 yrs and I think I'm almost over the hump.
I strongly suggest you go back to AA and discuss your problem with your sponsor and the other oldtimers.
All the best.
Bob R
I strongly suggest you go back to AA and discuss your problem with your sponsor and the other oldtimers.
All the best.
Bob R
Thank you for the suggestion. I do miss a few people from AA and sometimes want to call them up and talk to them. However for me it feels like if I'm active in AA then my whole world revolves around not drinking, and I'm not sure that feels much better for me than having it revolve around drinking. I'm just trying to be honest and explain how I feel right now.
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Originally Posted by Anna
Pigtails, it was quite a shock for me to realize that I wasn't the person that I had thought I was, the person that I put out there. Early recovery forced me to look very hard at where I was in my life, what successes I'd had and what failures I'd had. What did I want/need to change? The most important change for me was to say 'No' when I meant it, and not feel guilty. So, I started taking small steps, one issue at a time. And, it worked and my comfort level with myself grew.
My suggestion would be to prioritize things that you want/need to organize and start slowly. Accomplish something each day, and see if your thinking begins to change.
My suggestion would be to prioritize things that you want/need to organize and start slowly. Accomplish something each day, and see if your thinking begins to change.
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Originally Posted by Lost3000
Wow, I could have written that post Pigtails. My home AA group is full of people like you (and me). I can completely relate to your struggles with God in AA. I too felt just like you.
Before I quit drinking, I decided I knew all about AA and that it was a God thumper group.
But when I quit, I was desperate for it to be for good, so I immersed myself in the program and ignored any God talk. Now, I'm not quite as bristled when I hear talk about God, because I realize that when people say God, they don't always mean, our lord the savior or some dude in the sky with a white beard. Sometimes, they say "God" because it's easier to say it, so that others can identify. I've been told that describing their HP is hard so they just stick with God -- it doesn't mean they are Bible thumpers.
It sometimes means they are spiritual, trying to be in tune with the universe, you know? And that's what I want. I want to be in tune with the universe. Not considered some freak on the outskirts because I don't embrace jesus christ our lord and savior. And guess what? I'm slowly beginning to feel that way (not a freak - LOL).
I sit next to Buddhists and Atheists and Christians and Jews and Muslims. Well, one Muslim that I know of. And they have loooong term sobriety. I said to myself, well, heck, if they can do it so can I!
These people I come across in my mtgs are so welcoming, so non-judgmental, so...happy. And I choose to believe them when they say getting sober in AA is not about God, but about GOD (group of drunks).
In any case, I one thing I noticed about your post is you said AA didn't "cure" you - I know what you meant by cure by the way ---- but, you were only on step 4. You do realize there are another 8 steps??
I told myself, alright self, you are going to get sober. You are going to be one of those people in their 50s, 60s (I'm 40) who talks about 20 yrs ago getting sober. And you are going to give this program a chance, you are going to do it, ALL of it -- and then you will make a decision/judgment about AA.
I strongly suggest you do what Fred says, in doing what they say. How do you think they got sober? They aren't any different than you. Go back, give it a real honest try, see it through to the very end. At least do all the steps. Talk about it, talk to others, talk to your sponsor, go to mtgs regularly (that's how I began to make friends).
I really hope this helps you. I know you've been through a really tough time lately. I felt so sad reading one of your posts the other day. I'm online all the time so feel free to write me privately too.
Before I quit drinking, I decided I knew all about AA and that it was a God thumper group.
But when I quit, I was desperate for it to be for good, so I immersed myself in the program and ignored any God talk. Now, I'm not quite as bristled when I hear talk about God, because I realize that when people say God, they don't always mean, our lord the savior or some dude in the sky with a white beard. Sometimes, they say "God" because it's easier to say it, so that others can identify. I've been told that describing their HP is hard so they just stick with God -- it doesn't mean they are Bible thumpers.
It sometimes means they are spiritual, trying to be in tune with the universe, you know? And that's what I want. I want to be in tune with the universe. Not considered some freak on the outskirts because I don't embrace jesus christ our lord and savior. And guess what? I'm slowly beginning to feel that way (not a freak - LOL).
I sit next to Buddhists and Atheists and Christians and Jews and Muslims. Well, one Muslim that I know of. And they have loooong term sobriety. I said to myself, well, heck, if they can do it so can I!
These people I come across in my mtgs are so welcoming, so non-judgmental, so...happy. And I choose to believe them when they say getting sober in AA is not about God, but about GOD (group of drunks).
In any case, I one thing I noticed about your post is you said AA didn't "cure" you - I know what you meant by cure by the way ---- but, you were only on step 4. You do realize there are another 8 steps??
I told myself, alright self, you are going to get sober. You are going to be one of those people in their 50s, 60s (I'm 40) who talks about 20 yrs ago getting sober. And you are going to give this program a chance, you are going to do it, ALL of it -- and then you will make a decision/judgment about AA.
I strongly suggest you do what Fred says, in doing what they say. How do you think they got sober? They aren't any different than you. Go back, give it a real honest try, see it through to the very end. At least do all the steps. Talk about it, talk to others, talk to your sponsor, go to mtgs regularly (that's how I began to make friends).
I really hope this helps you. I know you've been through a really tough time lately. I felt so sad reading one of your posts the other day. I'm online all the time so feel free to write me privately too.
Thank you for the suggestions as well.
I think I am either going to go back to AA and try to find people who are secular-minded or I am going to try AVRT or another recovery method that's different from AA. As you can tell, I'm not too sure about my next step but for now I'm just not drinking no matter what.
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It makes me feel prouder and stronger to not drink.There's a rational benefit of not drinking but that's about as far as I've gotten.
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I think it's totally ok to struggle with this process, or have oscillating moments of being thrilled with sobriety and sometimes less. Sounds healthy to me, honestly. Ultimately, you want to use these moments of negative thinking as tools - insight into ways to find greater peace, learn more about yourself, try new things, or refocus.
I don't go to AA meetings either. I thought the folks were very kind and encouraging in the meetings I attended, but I didn't feel like it was the right fit for me. I like the idea of fellowship, but I'm not particularly drawn to the 12 steps.
The nice thing is that as time goes on, you will give yourself more opportunities to try new things to help your state of mind and work habits. You will be more clear to evaluate the small things that make a difference, the small things that make you happy. I have not found that stopping drinking has fixed all my problems, its just helped clear out the muck and emotional drama that has helped me deal better, know myself more.
One question I still ask myself a lot, "What kind of life do I want to live?" It helps motivate me to reach in and look deeper, and then work toward it. However you decide to move forward, just do what works best for the life you want.
I don't go to AA meetings either. I thought the folks were very kind and encouraging in the meetings I attended, but I didn't feel like it was the right fit for me. I like the idea of fellowship, but I'm not particularly drawn to the 12 steps.
The nice thing is that as time goes on, you will give yourself more opportunities to try new things to help your state of mind and work habits. You will be more clear to evaluate the small things that make a difference, the small things that make you happy. I have not found that stopping drinking has fixed all my problems, its just helped clear out the muck and emotional drama that has helped me deal better, know myself more.
One question I still ask myself a lot, "What kind of life do I want to live?" It helps motivate me to reach in and look deeper, and then work toward it. However you decide to move forward, just do what works best for the life you want.
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When I was a middle manager I found the Franklin-Covey system helped me a lot with staying organized. I don't use it now, but am considering a return, as I imagine being systematically organized every day is a lot more tolerable when you're sober.
Franklin-Covey basically boils down to making to-do lists everyday of tasks which you then prioritize by importance. Undone tasks carryover to the next day. And there are some long-term goal-setting tools in there, too. So it's a lot of planning and a lot of lists.
Some people love that kind of thing, OTOH it drives some people nuts. The benefit is you cannot help but be a paragon of orderly virtue. The downside is . . you cannot help but be a paragon of orderly virtue. (It's hard to feel good about blowing something off when it's been on the list for three days with an A-plus priority, so that can be a real drag.)
Franklin-Covey basically boils down to making to-do lists everyday of tasks which you then prioritize by importance. Undone tasks carryover to the next day. And there are some long-term goal-setting tools in there, too. So it's a lot of planning and a lot of lists.
Some people love that kind of thing, OTOH it drives some people nuts. The benefit is you cannot help but be a paragon of orderly virtue. The downside is . . you cannot help but be a paragon of orderly virtue. (It's hard to feel good about blowing something off when it's been on the list for three days with an A-plus priority, so that can be a real drag.)
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Originally Posted by Pigtails
This is a good idea. I think I am a perfectionist and I have a lot of anxiety so I put off doing things because I'm afraid of not doing them well enough or they seem so overwhelming. But then when I get thrown into a situation and have to deal with it or under pressure for time etc., I do just fine, so maybe I can try to re-train my brain to just not care so much and not over-analyze so much. I am wondering how to do this but it sounds like a good idea.
I'm looking into cognitive behavioral therapy as it seems like I could benefit from something like that.
I'm looking into cognitive behavioral therapy as it seems like I could benefit from something like that.
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Thank you guys for the tips!! I think a big part of my recent problem is that I am overwhelmed with work that has piled up due to my summer vacations with family, my recent health issues, my grandmother being sick and now dying... it really feels like I can never get out from under it, like it was one thing after another.
Well, I've been doing some positive self-talk and realizing that I can't conquer EVERYTHING, I can only try my best at the things I realistically have time to do. Some of it involves managing my expectations about what I can accomplish-- I have to remind myself to just DO THE TASK/PROJECT, as well as I can, but also as efficiently as I can, and if I stop and beat myself up over everything, or be overly perfectionistic or overly analyical, or worse yet freeze in fear of failure and not even start the task, then I am only making things worse and I cannot possibly get through all the things that need to get done in that manner. So I have been keeping a running list in Evernote and just checking tasks off as I go, and saying "good job" to myself as I do.
I have tried a super organized To Do list with dates and priorities etc. before (not specifically Franklin Covey-- although I will check it out, thanks for the suggestion!) but I spend more time MAKING the list then actually doing the things on the list, and I guess I feel overwhelmed with these huge "things I have to get done by when." So instead I'm trying to keep things simple, look at the most pressing things I need to get done, and do them, and tell myself I can't put every little detail in or be absolutely perfect, I just need to keep chugging on through the pile. And it has really helped me but then again I go through phases recently of feeling quite accomplished and then feeling quite overwhelmed, so, baby steps I guess!!!
Thanks again everyone for all the help. I will be out of the office for four days next week due to my grandmother's funeral arrangements and that makes me anxious but I am going to work all weekend to try to get everything done in advance so I can focus on the here and now while I'm out there.
I think a big part of my recent problem is that I am overwhelmed with work that has piled up due to my summer vacations with family, my recent health issues, my grandmother being sick and now dying... it really feels like I can never get out from under it, like it was one thing after another.Well, I've been doing some positive self-talk and realizing that I can't conquer EVERYTHING, I can only try my best at the things I realistically have time to do. Some of it involves managing my expectations about what I can accomplish-- I have to remind myself to just DO THE TASK/PROJECT, as well as I can, but also as efficiently as I can, and if I stop and beat myself up over everything, or be overly perfectionistic or overly analyical, or worse yet freeze in fear of failure and not even start the task, then I am only making things worse and I cannot possibly get through all the things that need to get done in that manner. So I have been keeping a running list in Evernote and just checking tasks off as I go, and saying "good job" to myself as I do.
I have tried a super organized To Do list with dates and priorities etc. before (not specifically Franklin Covey-- although I will check it out, thanks for the suggestion!) but I spend more time MAKING the list then actually doing the things on the list, and I guess I feel overwhelmed with these huge "things I have to get done by when." So instead I'm trying to keep things simple, look at the most pressing things I need to get done, and do them, and tell myself I can't put every little detail in or be absolutely perfect, I just need to keep chugging on through the pile. And it has really helped me but then again I go through phases recently of feeling quite accomplished and then feeling quite overwhelmed, so, baby steps I guess!!!
Thanks again everyone for all the help.
I will be out of the office for four days next week due to my grandmother's funeral arrangements and that makes me anxious but I am going to work all weekend to try to get everything done in advance so I can focus on the here and now while I'm out there.
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Originally Posted by Pigtails
I do like the concept of Good Orderly Direction.
I guess my way is working okay, I don't know. I mean I am having some rough emotional times but it makes me feel prouder and stronger to not drink during them. I feel like I just get emotional and have depression no matter what I do-- drink, don't drink, go to AA, don't go to AA, go to therapy, don't go to therapy... so far I know there's a rational benefit of not drinking but that's about as far as I've gotten.
I guess my way is working okay, I don't know. I mean I am having some rough emotional times but it makes me feel prouder and stronger to not drink during them. I feel like I just get emotional and have depression no matter what I do-- drink, don't drink, go to AA, don't go to AA, go to therapy, don't go to therapy... so far I know there's a rational benefit of not drinking but that's about as far as I've gotten.
You'll have setbacks and rocky moments (I know I sure as heck have had them) but keep on!! I know people who've been sober for 20+ years who still have "moments". So take it easy on yourself and don't give up, and most of all, don't drink.
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Originally Posted by Pigtails
I went to AA for about five months. Towards the end I tapered off to once a week or so, I usually went 3 - 4 times a week, sometimes I went almost every day.
Thank you for the suggestion. I do miss a few people from AA and sometimes want to call them up and talk to them. However for me it feels like if I'm active in AA then my whole world revolves around not drinking, and I'm not sure that feels much better for me than having it revolve around drinking. I'm just trying to be honest and explain how I feel right now.
Thank you for the suggestion. I do miss a few people from AA and sometimes want to call them up and talk to them. However for me it feels like if I'm active in AA then my whole world revolves around not drinking, and I'm not sure that feels much better for me than having it revolve around drinking. I'm just trying to be honest and explain how I feel right now.
It's slow going for me. In my (almost) 8 months of sobriety, I've been invited to a lunch, and two coffees. Next week I'm going to a girls only party at someone's house. While doing those things is hard for me, I don't know how to act anymore socially now that I'm not drinking, I do them anyway, and it gets easier each time. Also, the get togethers aren't all about not drinking or AA, you get to know people. I had to reach out to get the two coffees though, it's not like invites just fell in my lap.
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Originally Posted by Pigtails
It is good to hear that there are people from all walks of live in your AA meetings.
Thank you for the suggestions as well.
I think I am either going to go back to AA and try to find people who are secular-minded or I am going to try AVRT or another recovery method that's different from AA. As you can tell, I'm not too sure about my next step but for now I'm just not drinking no matter what.
Thank you for the suggestions as well.
I think I am either going to go back to AA and try to find people who are secular-minded or I am going to try AVRT or another recovery method that's different from AA. As you can tell, I'm not too sure about my next step but for now I'm just not drinking no matter what.
I really don't get too much into the HP thing, it's an ongoing struggle for me, but I feel I need to go on, take my own advice, and finish out the steps.
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Originally Posted by auden67
One question I still ask myself a lot, "What kind of life do I want to live?"
Originally Posted by Notmyrealname
Franklin-Covey basically boils down to making to-do lists everyday of tasks which you then prioritize by importance. Undone tasks carryover to the next day.
At the end of every day, or most days anyhow, I reflect upon what I need to do the next day. I write out on a sticky pad three or four things in numerical order. I work for five attorneys, so I put their initials next to each task. Then, at the end of that day, whatever I didn't do, I write down on a new list for the next day. It does seem to help a lot. I don't seem to forget as much.
Pigtails, good luck in the next few days. I know it's going to be hard and stressful, but I feel you can make it through ok. Hope to hear from you soon.
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