Plan for Stability and Recovery!
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Anchorage, AK
Posts: 391
Plan for Stability and Recovery!
Alright, so I have some done some reading today and gone through various programs. Of course like many others, I feel like I can do this on my own. And of course my approach will be frowned upon and probably have been tried and failed many times. I'm taking this more as a challenge to fight alcohol rather than run from it. I know this is the last thing I should be saying, but my goal is not to completely eliminate it from my life and tell myself I will never drink again. My goal is to eliminate it from the majority of my life and get back to a balance. This probably has a 99% chance of failing, but I want to try the challenge at least and fail before I completely throw in the towel and go get some serious help.
So what I want to do is a mixed approach of tapering and phasing out alcohol. My goal is to get rid of the dependence of alcohol and the daily consumption of it and then phase it in, in a controlled manner. Once again, I know this is completely frowned upon and most people will not agree with this method. I just don't know what to say, that's just what I want to try and what I want to accomplish.
The key here is honesty. I will be 100% honest with how much alcohol I consume and how I feel in this thread and provide daily updates for how my goals went for the day. If I start falling off the wagon and can't control it, I will go to the next recovery method, and then the next, and then the next, until hopefully I either have to never drink the rest of my life, or I actually do gain some control and balance.
So my first step is to develop a tapering schedule and follow it. I also want to learn how to live with alcohol around me with out drinking more than I say I will drink. So I'm going to the store today to get two fifths. 1 fifth of Smirnoff Vodka and 1 fifth of Jim Beam. I will put both of them on my desk in visible site for the next two weeks. I want to see them while I'm working, when I wake up, and when I go to sleep. I'm kind of at the perfect time in work where I can torment myself a little bit even if it affects my concentration.
Tapering Schedule Week 1
Day 1: 350mL
Day 2: 300mL
Day 3: 275mL
Day 4: 225mL
Day 5: 175mL
Day 6: 125mL
Day 7: 50mL
Week 2
Day 1: NO DRINKING
Day 2: 200mL
Day 3: 100mL
Day 4: NO DRINKING
Day 5: 150mL
Day 6: 100mL
Day 7: 50mL
Week 3
Day 1: NO DRINKING
Day 2: NO DRINKING
Day 3: 150mL
Day 4: NO DRINKING
Day 5: 100mL
Day 6: NO DRINKING
Day 7: 50mL
Week 4
1 Entire Week No Alcohol!!
After Week 4 is completed I will work on the next phase of the schedule
Couple Extra Rules
1) No Drinking Before 5 pm
2) No Drinking After 12 pm
3) No excuses
4) Every night, make a detailed description of the day, how I feel, how much alcohol I consumed, and any other pertinent info.
5) I am allowed to drink LESS than the amount specified in the tapering schedule and it DOES NOT carry over to the next day.
Alright, wish me luck!! I'm kind of excited. But like everything, it all depends on action and follow through.
So what I want to do is a mixed approach of tapering and phasing out alcohol. My goal is to get rid of the dependence of alcohol and the daily consumption of it and then phase it in, in a controlled manner. Once again, I know this is completely frowned upon and most people will not agree with this method. I just don't know what to say, that's just what I want to try and what I want to accomplish.
The key here is honesty. I will be 100% honest with how much alcohol I consume and how I feel in this thread and provide daily updates for how my goals went for the day. If I start falling off the wagon and can't control it, I will go to the next recovery method, and then the next, and then the next, until hopefully I either have to never drink the rest of my life, or I actually do gain some control and balance.
So my first step is to develop a tapering schedule and follow it. I also want to learn how to live with alcohol around me with out drinking more than I say I will drink. So I'm going to the store today to get two fifths. 1 fifth of Smirnoff Vodka and 1 fifth of Jim Beam. I will put both of them on my desk in visible site for the next two weeks. I want to see them while I'm working, when I wake up, and when I go to sleep. I'm kind of at the perfect time in work where I can torment myself a little bit even if it affects my concentration.
Tapering Schedule Week 1
Day 1: 350mL
Day 2: 300mL
Day 3: 275mL
Day 4: 225mL
Day 5: 175mL
Day 6: 125mL
Day 7: 50mL
Week 2
Day 1: NO DRINKING
Day 2: 200mL
Day 3: 100mL
Day 4: NO DRINKING
Day 5: 150mL
Day 6: 100mL
Day 7: 50mL
Week 3
Day 1: NO DRINKING
Day 2: NO DRINKING
Day 3: 150mL
Day 4: NO DRINKING
Day 5: 100mL
Day 6: NO DRINKING
Day 7: 50mL
Week 4
1 Entire Week No Alcohol!!
After Week 4 is completed I will work on the next phase of the schedule
Couple Extra Rules
1) No Drinking Before 5 pm
2) No Drinking After 12 pm
3) No excuses
4) Every night, make a detailed description of the day, how I feel, how much alcohol I consumed, and any other pertinent info.
5) I am allowed to drink LESS than the amount specified in the tapering schedule and it DOES NOT carry over to the next day.
Alright, wish me luck!! I'm kind of excited. But like everything, it all depends on action and follow through.
~sb
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: MD
Posts: 15,967
I tried something similar for about 10 years, but I got stuck on 6 beers a night. Sometimes none (rarely, but done) and sometimes 2 or 3 times as much, sometimes only 2, 3 or 4 beers.
The bottom line was that I was still drinking basically nightly. Today, I have over 13 months of sobriety with help from a program of recovery and many in person supports and online support on this site and others, but that's me.
I really do wish you well!
The bottom line was that I was still drinking basically nightly. Today, I have over 13 months of sobriety with help from a program of recovery and many in person supports and online support on this site and others, but that's me.
I really do wish you well!
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Everett, WA
Posts: 13
I definitely wish you luck on this venture! I know for me "tapering" was out the window. With even as little as a drink in me I tend to crave another drink, and another.
I would ask though: What's the reason for planning this foray? Has drinking begun to take a bigger and bigger role in your life, or do you tend to crave more drinks once you have one or two?
I'll be honest: I've tried controlling my drinking for many numbers of years, probably since the day I started drinking to be truthful, and was never able to. Everything from only picking up a six-pack to only drinking when out with friends to only drinking at home to ... I guess you name it I've tried it.
It's not to say that this will fail, but it is to say that if you are an alcoholic like many of us are there is little chance to have one or two drinks and then stop day after day after day. I don't say this to be discouraging, but more to just point it out *in case* things don't go as planned.
I know for myself that if I drank 5-6 shots (roughly 350ml) of liquor it would quickly lead to the bottom of the bottle or me passing out after 5-6 more. That's just me.
Either way I hope this experiment illuminates something for you, either your ability to taper down and quit or the 'phenomenon of craving'. As they say it's better to get a good case of the shakes if it teaches you your true condition...
A lot of us don't fight alcohol, or necessarily run from it. I know that if I maintain a dualistic state of mind, a me vs alcohol mentality, the alcohol will always win. I might win a small battle, like having just a drink once, but that quickly turns into me losing the war because that one drink is often the start of yet another blurry binge and eventual detox.
But that's me. My hat is off to you if this turns out differently and you can taper down.
I would ask though: What's the reason for planning this foray? Has drinking begun to take a bigger and bigger role in your life, or do you tend to crave more drinks once you have one or two?
I'll be honest: I've tried controlling my drinking for many numbers of years, probably since the day I started drinking to be truthful, and was never able to. Everything from only picking up a six-pack to only drinking when out with friends to only drinking at home to ... I guess you name it I've tried it.
It's not to say that this will fail, but it is to say that if you are an alcoholic like many of us are there is little chance to have one or two drinks and then stop day after day after day. I don't say this to be discouraging, but more to just point it out *in case* things don't go as planned.
I know for myself that if I drank 5-6 shots (roughly 350ml) of liquor it would quickly lead to the bottom of the bottle or me passing out after 5-6 more. That's just me.
Either way I hope this experiment illuminates something for you, either your ability to taper down and quit or the 'phenomenon of craving'. As they say it's better to get a good case of the shakes if it teaches you your true condition...
A lot of us don't fight alcohol, or necessarily run from it. I know that if I maintain a dualistic state of mind, a me vs alcohol mentality, the alcohol will always win. I might win a small battle, like having just a drink once, but that quickly turns into me losing the war because that one drink is often the start of yet another blurry binge and eventual detox.
But that's me. My hat is off to you if this turns out differently and you can taper down.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 20,458
if I had a bottle of Jim Beam or Jack sitting on my desk the only thing I would be thinking about is "wheres the ICE".
it's lovely to write it out, but nope, you cannot moderate, it's not the way you are wired. you've drank enough to be sick and you went out and purchased 2 fifths of hard liquor??? think about that.
truly you need medical intervention to safely detox. seizures are not pretty and you cannot treat this yourself.
go to the doctor or ER, you need to.
it's lovely to write it out, but nope, you cannot moderate, it's not the way you are wired. you've drank enough to be sick and you went out and purchased 2 fifths of hard liquor??? think about that.
truly you need medical intervention to safely detox. seizures are not pretty and you cannot treat this yourself.
go to the doctor or ER, you need to.
~sb
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: MD
Posts: 15,967
I just noticed that at 2:54 a.m. EST you wrote you had "no control" when you drank.... and now, about 17 hours later, you have a plan on "controlling" what you are drinking. Wow. I hadn't seen your first post.
Good Luck!
Good Luck!
Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Between Meetings
Posts: 8,997
I always liked this reading from the Big Book pg 31
Despite all we can say, many who are real alcoholics are not going to believe they are in that class. By every form of self-deception and experimentation, they will try to prove themselves exceptions to the rule, therefore nonalcoholic. If anyone who is showing inability to control his drinking can do the right- about-face and drink like a gentleman, our hats are off to him. Heaven knows, we have tried hard enough and long enough to drink like other people!
Here are some of the methods we have tried: Drinking beer only, limiting the number of drinks, never drinking alone, never drinking in the morning, drinking only at home, never having it in the house, never drinking during business hours, drinking only at parties, switching from scotch to brandy, drinking only natural wines, agreeing to resign if ever drunk on the job, taking a trip, not taking a trip, swearing off forever (with and without a solemn oath), taking more physical exercise, reading inspirational books, going to health farms and sanitariums, accepting voluntary commitment to asylums - we could increase the list ad infinitum.
Despite all we can say, many who are real alcoholics are not going to believe they are in that class. By every form of self-deception and experimentation, they will try to prove themselves exceptions to the rule, therefore nonalcoholic. If anyone who is showing inability to control his drinking can do the right- about-face and drink like a gentleman, our hats are off to him. Heaven knows, we have tried hard enough and long enough to drink like other people!
Here are some of the methods we have tried: Drinking beer only, limiting the number of drinks, never drinking alone, never drinking in the morning, drinking only at home, never having it in the house, never drinking during business hours, drinking only at parties, switching from scotch to brandy, drinking only natural wines, agreeing to resign if ever drunk on the job, taking a trip, not taking a trip, swearing off forever (with and without a solemn oath), taking more physical exercise, reading inspirational books, going to health farms and sanitariums, accepting voluntary commitment to asylums - we could increase the list ad infinitum.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
Originally Posted by sugarbear1 
I just noticed that at 2:54 a.m. EST you wrote you had "no control" when you drank.... and now, about 17 hours later, you have a plan on "controlling" what you are drinking. Wow. I hadn't seen your first post.
Good Luck!
Good Luck!
i hope you take the advise from people with years of knowledge of what doesnt work, which is controlled drinking doesnt work for an alcoholic.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Everett, WA
Posts: 13
Originally Posted by Sapling
I always liked this reading from the Big Book pg 31
Despite all we can say, many who are real alcoholics are not going to believe they are in that class. By every form of self-deception and experimentation, they will try to prove themselves exceptions to the rule, therefore nonalcoholic. If anyone who is showing inability to control his drinking can do the right- about-face and drink like a gentleman, our hats are off to him. Heaven knows, we have tried hard enough and long enough to drink like other people!
Here are some of the methods we have tried: Drinking beer only, limiting the number of drinks, never drinking alone, never drinking in the morning, drinking only at home, never having it in the house, never drinking during business hours, drinking only at parties, switching from scotch to brandy, drinking only natural wines, agreeing to resign if ever drunk on the job, taking a trip, not taking a trip, swearing off forever (with and without a solemn oath), taking more physical exercise, reading inspirational books, going to health farms and sanitariums, accepting voluntary commitment to asylums - we could increase the list ad infinitum.
Despite all we can say, many who are real alcoholics are not going to believe they are in that class. By every form of self-deception and experimentation, they will try to prove themselves exceptions to the rule, therefore nonalcoholic. If anyone who is showing inability to control his drinking can do the right- about-face and drink like a gentleman, our hats are off to him. Heaven knows, we have tried hard enough and long enough to drink like other people!
Here are some of the methods we have tried: Drinking beer only, limiting the number of drinks, never drinking alone, never drinking in the morning, drinking only at home, never having it in the house, never drinking during business hours, drinking only at parties, switching from scotch to brandy, drinking only natural wines, agreeing to resign if ever drunk on the job, taking a trip, not taking a trip, swearing off forever (with and without a solemn oath), taking more physical exercise, reading inspirational books, going to health farms and sanitariums, accepting voluntary commitment to asylums - we could increase the list ad infinitum.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Anchorage, AK
Posts: 391
Originally Posted by Anna
If you are an alcoholic, you cannot control your drinking.
You might want to check out Moderation Management for your plan.
You might want to check out Moderation Management for your plan.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
please know that the founder of MM killed 2 people driving the wrong way on an expressway while drunk.
At 6 p.m. on March 25, Audrey Kishline was driving west on the eastbound side of Interstate 90 near Seattle when her Ford pickup truck collided head-on with a Dodge coupe occupied by Richard Davis, 38, and his 12-year-old daughter, LaSchell, killing both of them. Kishline had a half-empty vodka bottle on the seat beside her when police found her, unconscious, in her truck. Her blood-alcohol level was 0.26 percent, more than three times Washington’s legal limit for drivers. Three months later, she pleaded guilty to two counts of vehicular homicide in Kittitas County Superior Court.
Ms. Kishline was the founder of a mutual-help group, Moderation Management, which differed from other groups in supporting participants in choosing and pursuing either of two goals, moderate drinking or abstinence. In January 2000, months before the tragic crash, Ms. Kishline announced that she was changing her personal goal to abstinence, leaving Moderation Management, and planning to attend other mutual-help groups, explicitly mentioning, among others, Alcoholics Anonymous.
not saying MM wont work, but thats pretty scary.
At 6 p.m. on March 25, Audrey Kishline was driving west on the eastbound side of Interstate 90 near Seattle when her Ford pickup truck collided head-on with a Dodge coupe occupied by Richard Davis, 38, and his 12-year-old daughter, LaSchell, killing both of them. Kishline had a half-empty vodka bottle on the seat beside her when police found her, unconscious, in her truck. Her blood-alcohol level was 0.26 percent, more than three times Washington’s legal limit for drivers. Three months later, she pleaded guilty to two counts of vehicular homicide in Kittitas County Superior Court.
Ms. Kishline was the founder of a mutual-help group, Moderation Management, which differed from other groups in supporting participants in choosing and pursuing either of two goals, moderate drinking or abstinence. In January 2000, months before the tragic crash, Ms. Kishline announced that she was changing her personal goal to abstinence, leaving Moderation Management, and planning to attend other mutual-help groups, explicitly mentioning, among others, Alcoholics Anonymous.
not saying MM wont work, but thats pretty scary.
Re-Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado
Posts: 7,583
I remember doing that too Paul. That seemed for some reason to accelerate my slide into total dependency from wake up to passing out every day in every way. My way would be to promise myself that I would not drink in the mornings that 12 noon was too early but acceptable for me. Then when I had to take a double shot in my first coffee because I had the shakes so bad I could barely hold it with two hands. Then I got to where I would daily promise myself I would quit the next day and I would have one cup of coffee without and if I was having a good day, and did not spill it, or shake too much, I felt so good about my self control I then doubled up Scotch in my second coffee as a reward and said to myself tomorrow I will quit. See I was able to hold off on the first one today, tomorrow I quit completely.
I was weak back then and wish you the best on your endeavor. It took another year for me to become desperate enough to realize it was down to quit or die. I made it. We all do, one way or another.
Three years before I quit finally I was making deals with myself too. I had lists and Power Point slides for me to see daily. I sure wasn't going to any meetings with a bunch of drunks. Until I did, and got sober with SR, meetings, in hospital 7 day detox, counseling, working with my two Docs, and my family and grown sons.
I had to get desperate to publicly seek help. Lots say they do it in private but here isn't alone either, and some folks make it with just SR support from my friends that are like family to me here too.
It never worked for me, and I hope you are the first I hear of who it does work for.
I was weak back then and wish you the best on your endeavor. It took another year for me to become desperate enough to realize it was down to quit or die. I made it. We all do, one way or another.
Three years before I quit finally I was making deals with myself too. I had lists and Power Point slides for me to see daily. I sure wasn't going to any meetings with a bunch of drunks. Until I did, and got sober with SR, meetings, in hospital 7 day detox, counseling, working with my two Docs, and my family and grown sons.
I had to get desperate to publicly seek help. Lots say they do it in private but here isn't alone either, and some folks make it with just SR support from my friends that are like family to me here too.
It never worked for me, and I hope you are the first I hear of who it does work for.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Anchorage, AK
Posts: 391
Alright Day One: First Report
Alright, I want to get in to the philosophy of what makes me so weak. I kind of want to map out the progression to my abuse of alcohol and what it is about alcohol that makes me completely compliant to it's every wish. Now the entire day I did not crave alcohol during the day. I felt good about my new plan, I felt energized and enthused. Then around 5 o'clock when I "allowed" myself the ability to drink I started getting dry mouth, I started feeling a little bit more anxious, and I actually felt like making a push to not drink, but then convinced myself that I have to follow the plan.
Hmmmm... drunk self 1 : sober self 0.
I poured out 350mL of Vodka. When I look at it all together, it is actually a quite a bit of liquor. Now I don't drink 350mL or more a day... sometimes I drink way more and some times I drink less... but I figured this would be a good starting point.
The second I took a sip, it was like a calm came over my body. It's like something in my mind and body was fed and is now happy. My hearts beating normally, my brain feels good, I still feel energized, but I also have this craving to take another shot. But at the same time I want to space out my shots so I don't have too many before the end of the night and end the night with out anything.
I see the full bottle right next to me. And it's scaring me because I'm getting this feeling of comfort knowing it is there if I need it. That is kind of why I wanted to do it this way. I want my body to know I can have it, but don't need it, instead of telling my body I can't have it.
I just took another sip and now I am feeling completely relaxed. Now I'm starting to understand why I crave it so much. This feeling after a simple sip is amazing. But I know I just want more. I know I just want to take a large sip and really get to that great feeling where your mind is numb and the world just seems like a simpler place with out any worries. That feeling right before the edge!!
Alright, well I'll continue monitoring my thoughts and actions as the night goes on. I hope to find that point of no return where I get to the point of making posts about losing control and not being able to do anything about it. Right now I still feel in control but I still kind of feel drawn to the alcohol. Maybe it's because I have the comfort of knowing how much I can drink tonight. Who knows, but we will see!
Alright, I want to get in to the philosophy of what makes me so weak. I kind of want to map out the progression to my abuse of alcohol and what it is about alcohol that makes me completely compliant to it's every wish. Now the entire day I did not crave alcohol during the day. I felt good about my new plan, I felt energized and enthused. Then around 5 o'clock when I "allowed" myself the ability to drink I started getting dry mouth, I started feeling a little bit more anxious, and I actually felt like making a push to not drink, but then convinced myself that I have to follow the plan.
Hmmmm... drunk self 1 : sober self 0.
I poured out 350mL of Vodka. When I look at it all together, it is actually a quite a bit of liquor. Now I don't drink 350mL or more a day... sometimes I drink way more and some times I drink less... but I figured this would be a good starting point.
The second I took a sip, it was like a calm came over my body. It's like something in my mind and body was fed and is now happy. My hearts beating normally, my brain feels good, I still feel energized, but I also have this craving to take another shot. But at the same time I want to space out my shots so I don't have too many before the end of the night and end the night with out anything.
I see the full bottle right next to me. And it's scaring me because I'm getting this feeling of comfort knowing it is there if I need it. That is kind of why I wanted to do it this way. I want my body to know I can have it, but don't need it, instead of telling my body I can't have it.
I just took another sip and now I am feeling completely relaxed. Now I'm starting to understand why I crave it so much. This feeling after a simple sip is amazing. But I know I just want more. I know I just want to take a large sip and really get to that great feeling where your mind is numb and the world just seems like a simpler place with out any worries. That feeling right before the edge!!
Alright, well I'll continue monitoring my thoughts and actions as the night goes on. I hope to find that point of no return where I get to the point of making posts about losing control and not being able to do anything about it. Right now I still feel in control but I still kind of feel drawn to the alcohol. Maybe it's because I have the comfort of knowing how much I can drink tonight. Who knows, but we will see!
Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Singapore
Posts: 737
You already know my take on this thing Paul, so I'm not gonna drag you back over the coals again. Would only suggest that by being new here, you may not realize the collective insight coming from a few of the people who've responded to this thread. Some of these folks seriously know what they're on about.
Having said that, you are absolutely right. We can't explain gravity properly to someone who hasn't fallen out of a few proper trees. So let me simply say this; I honestly and wholeheartedly hope that your plan works for you. Either it will or will not, but here's me completely hoping you're the exception to all of our rules.
One small request? I really hope you'll continue to post updates and let us all know how you're doing. Keep asking questions and don't hesitate to illicit help simply because we're not on board with your current plan. There is always something pertinent and worthwhile an experienced x booze hound can relay to someone not so experienced.
So yeah, please don't be that guy who feels ashamed and stops posting if and when something against your better judgment happens within your grand and declared plan(s). I say that because some have an issue with owning mistakes, even here, in abject anonymity. Some folks truly are afraid of "I told you so's", because they can be damaging to already fragile egos. Thing is, it's no biggy to any one of us, because as I've said, we've been where you are plenty of times ourselves. And while it might not seem at all possible, I've rarely seen an "I told you so" come from anyone here when someone owns up to a mistake or a misguided attempt. The coal raking thing happens before you head down a path, not after. I'm trying to say that you staying active here will only serve you positively, no matter what approach you are taking, now, and in the future.
We're not shooting from the hip in order to kill your spirit bro, it's just because we care and we've seen the worst side of this stuff. It's hard for us to see someone new have to live through that nonsense. But then again, maybe you won't.
Good luck to you com-padre.
Having said that, you are absolutely right. We can't explain gravity properly to someone who hasn't fallen out of a few proper trees. So let me simply say this; I honestly and wholeheartedly hope that your plan works for you. Either it will or will not, but here's me completely hoping you're the exception to all of our rules.
One small request? I really hope you'll continue to post updates and let us all know how you're doing. Keep asking questions and don't hesitate to illicit help simply because we're not on board with your current plan. There is always something pertinent and worthwhile an experienced x booze hound can relay to someone not so experienced.
So yeah, please don't be that guy who feels ashamed and stops posting if and when something against your better judgment happens within your grand and declared plan(s). I say that because some have an issue with owning mistakes, even here, in abject anonymity. Some folks truly are afraid of "I told you so's", because they can be damaging to already fragile egos. Thing is, it's no biggy to any one of us, because as I've said, we've been where you are plenty of times ourselves. And while it might not seem at all possible, I've rarely seen an "I told you so" come from anyone here when someone owns up to a mistake or a misguided attempt. The coal raking thing happens before you head down a path, not after. I'm trying to say that you staying active here will only serve you positively, no matter what approach you are taking, now, and in the future.
We're not shooting from the hip in order to kill your spirit bro, it's just because we care and we've seen the worst side of this stuff. It's hard for us to see someone new have to live through that nonsense. But then again, maybe you won't.
Good luck to you com-padre.
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