instant

you have stated your current position on your relationship with alcohol. In my experience everyone on SR will see this as your call to make.

I never used to be an alcoholic, until I finally admitted I was.

Getting upset about what is required of you is likely to make it more painful.

Good luck

Fallow

Hey AT just wanted to chime in with my experiences. Im ten years older than you. Ive never had a dui though I definitely could have certain nights I got lucky. What struck me was your drinking two beers and not wanting more. Im the same way though I am addicted to alcohol. I could go downstairs right now drink one beer and quit without wanting more tonight, done it many many times. I cant even count the times Ive cracked my first beer and left half of it to waste on the nightstand while I slept.

My problem is that the craving doesnt have to happen right away. Every time I drank a beer or two and stopped I thought I proved to myself I wasnt alcoholic. So I tried it again. Until the inevitable day I got wasted again and the problems happened.

Ive blown a breathalyzer twice in my life both times I was just over .20. So I know the feeling it takes to get there. My wife is a non-alcoholic. Ive seen her 'drunk' before and I can guarantee shes never approached a .16 BAC in her lifetime.

Food for thought

LDT

30 years ago I was stopped for DUI ( only back then it was called a DWI ). Ironically, I was actually the "designated driver" at the time because it was my friend's birthday and I didn't want her to have to drive. The experience of being hand cuffed and thrown in jail for a few hours was nothing short of mortifying. I was outraged!! How could they!! I was an upstanding citizen, a respected musician, an athlete.....and here I was in jail. ( side note....just to make things interesting, I started singing songs I had seen in prison movies just to irritate my jailers....what a cooperative gal I was. They were not amused ). Long story short....I knew a lot of "important", well connected people in town and I got OFF my DWI. The only thing I ended up having tompay was court costs. And in hindsight, that was probably the biggest mistake ever made in my drinking career.....to get OFF......to not suffer any real circumstances. Fast forward 30 years to my 3 day medical detox and my first REAL resolve to get sober.....that was 13 months ago. Still sober, smiling (and not singing prison songs) to this day. In the 30 years I continued drinking after my arrest I stopped drinking many times, and for extended periods. I proved to myself and others over and over and over again that I did not have a drinking problem.
I did not fit the criteria.....until I DID fit the criteria. Still, even while I was in detox, my thought was to just dry out and then "moderate" when I got out. But of course, for us advanced drinkers, moderation is really a joke. Constant self monitoring is just too time consuming for me. I have better things to do with my time.....like therapy. I did not get sober with AA, but instead found an amazing therapist whose specialty was substance abuse. I learned some really interesting and helpful things about myself and the nature and progression of alcoholism. She taught me tools that I still use daily, and I will be forever grayeful. So my question to you, 'Angry', is..... what are you more angry at.....the fact that you got a sentence that you think is maybe over the top harsh and/or unfair,
or the nagging thought that you might have a problem? I'm not saying you do or don't have a problem. I'm just saying pay attention. You do not want to end up in jail or detox 30 years from now.......TRUST me!! Alcohol is the big lie, and it's just NOT worth it!!

keithj

Angrytherapy,

I really liked DayTrader's responses to this thread. I think that's a very level-headed response from the perspective of someone who has been where you are, and whose perspective has changed with both the progression of alcoholism and the recovery from it.

This is where this company (OASAS) is seeing something you aren't in their diagnosis of you. Maybe they are just scamming some money. Or maybe they've seen hundreds of people just like you, with similar results in their diagnostic testing, that turn out to be alcoholics.

That one statement tells me something, though. Even though you are awaiting sentencing and are about to face some undesirable consequences from your drinking, you still drank. People that can 'take it or leave it, those non-alcoholic people, simply don't do that. There will most likely be some length of probation required, and one of the conditions will be that you don't consume alcohol at all. We weed ourselves out pretty quickly. The non-alcoholics do just fine with that condition, pay their price for breaking the law and endangering others, and are more careful about their driving habits. Alcoholics like me try to get away with a few drinks here and there.

dawnrunner

AT, maybe I can cheer you up a bit about the counseling and group meetings you may have in your future.

I went to OP chemical dependency treatment voluntarily, by which I mean I knew I had some sort of problem (though did not consider myself an "alcoholic" because my job was fine, my life was outwardly in great shape, and I was healthy). I was scared by the fact that my brothers were both heavy drinkers and addicts, and I could see their pattern in my own behavior. And, I had driven drunk and not gotten caught.

Everybody in my group was there for a legal or work-remand reason i.e. not by choice.

It was actually a very good learning experience. The counseling sessions were valuable and very enlightening, and the group conversations were full of wisdom and emotional depth.

If you are thinking, "These people can't teach me anything", maybe think again. You might be quite surprised.

I am a big believer in the Zen concept of 'beginner's mind'. We often assume we know everything already thank you very much, whereas life will continue to humble and surprise us so we might as well be open to this.

sugarbear1

Maryland does order a person to AA meetings. We call them "slip signers" as they have a specific sheet of paper that needs to be signed by a member (I.B. Sober is my alias on the slips) with meeting dates and times listed.

The last guy who's slip I signed was a recently retired police officer. He said, "Yeah, I should be going out and having fun these days instead of sitting in a meeting." He recently celebrated one year of sobriety and has no intentions of going back to drinking.

So, yes, some states DO require you to attend AA meetings.

JohnENY

I AM an alcoholic. Came to terms with that when I got a DWI in 2010.

But OASAS is a scam.

It is well intentioned. It might even be effective for 10% of the court-mandated "out-patients".

But DWIs have become an industry where well-positioned corporations suck every last penny out of citizens who have made a mistake and are often in a tough financial position.

I think the initial screening was $300. Everyone who has a dwi is not an alcoholic. It's true. And this is coming from an admitted alcoholic. However, NYS has the same company that runs the treatment facility decide whether you need treatment. So if they say you need treatment they're collecting a minimum $400/month. If not they get nothing. That's right they get $400 a month if they can diagnose you with a substance abuse problem.

Drug-tests at oasas facility $500. Treatment facility is seafield amityvilee. I pay for my own health coverage, so my copay is $100. 2-3 times a month. However, people who don't have any coverage and pay cash only pay $80. And tested less often. Exact same offense. Go figure.

Classes are $45 twice a week. Class is 1 hour, average class size 7-10 people. Classes are not taught by experts in addiction- seafield hires "social workers". Classes are helpful for a month or two, then topics start to get repeated.

Ignition interlock- mandatory installation for all dwi's after 2010- cost me $200to install, $100 a month.

Lawyer, fines, court fees- another $3,000 at least.

I guarantee I missed a few other expenses.

DWI is a very serious offense. It is great that offenders are getting screened for alcohol abuse. There should be stiff penalties for such a reckless crime.

However- giving OASAS a license to print money at the detriment of the recently convicted is a scam. Not providing real treatment- just going through the motions and collecting a check- is just another form of punishment and not really an effective effort at rehabilitation.

I would bet money that some form of kickbacks from the treatment centers to the ignition interlock companies to the drug labs to campaign contributions to cushy jobs is going on. Maybe I'm just cynical.

I am currently attending meetings- real meetings- sorry- not just the dwi classes that remind me of after-school suspension.

I understand the attitudes of others on this board but there has to be a point where enough punishment is enough. People are upset about DWI's and want strong deterrents in place. Rightly so. Should we cut off the arms of offenders so they can never drive again? How much is enough?

Who is looking out for the people that were dumb enough to get behind the wheel when drunk? Should we have no mercy? The laws are getting so tough that they're becoming draconian. The public is outraged. And inefficient parasitic corporations are swooping in to take advantage knowing that nobody has the balls to criticize any form of anti-dwi agenda.

Angrytherapy

*UPDATE*
Haven't posted here in awhile, I took a trip to Maui to take my mind off things and relax.

I had my first appointment (OASAS) and lets just say I'm going to have a lot of issues with this place.

The "counselor" has got to be some kind of joke. She only has a bachelors degree, and provided me with a truck load of false information. I went in with an open mind, my first appointment I was there for about 45 minutes. For the first half hour she went over if I didn't pay I would get kicked out. I'm not sure how she managed to talk about that for so long but she did.

She also failed to read my file prior to me arriving, having to read and review it right in front of me. At this point I was really ready to just walk out, unfortunately it would not be in my best interest as far as my legal case goes. She also managed to insult a very close friend of mine that I really care about, who is facing an eating disorder. First thing I wanted to say is "have you looked in the mirror recently?". But once again this would not help my case. This woman is about 5'5 and easily around 250 pounds, eating disorders go both ways. I've lost all respect for my counselor and can't wait until this is over so I can enlighten her on how eating McDonalds 14 times a week is a disorder.

Johny, I completely agree. They obviously just want my money, because throughout my entire first session there was not one question asked about alcohol. Just talking about how much I have to pay and the consequences of not paying. Also insulting a friend of mine and questioning the intelligence of my lawyer. Mind you a $10,000 lawyer that graduated at the top of his class from Yale and has been in the business for 26 years. Oh and she also can't form proper sentences and says "sooooo" and "ummmmm" every 10-15 seconds.

Did I mention one of her "rules" is that I can't maintain proper hygiene? "I don't understand why people brush their teeth before group". What the hell? That's disgusting I brush my teeth three times a day. I was fortunate that I was sick because I'm pretty sure her breath stinks if she doesn't understand why people take care of their teeth.

In short, OASAS hires incompetent "counselors" with minimal education, while they face their own addictions and disorders. When I go to court I'm going to request a private therapist or counselor that has an iota of intelligence.

jobei

Great thread. I have to pay for and attend state mandated "Anger Management" sessions because of an argument I got into with my EX. It makes me REALLY ANGRY... but I'm trying to learn something while I'm there since I HAVE to do it AND pay for it.

Zee

Imo. You do something wrong and break the law, you take the consequeses... If someone had been injured, or god-forbid killed by you driving over the limit, Im sure your initial post would have been alot different. You may whinge and moan about the cost and the enforcement, but Im sure these enforcements are in place because you did something that was ill judged and in the eyes of the law, potentially dangerous and WRONG.

Threshold

My room mate had the same situation as far as group and the "counselor" they hooked him up with. I (and I wish this weren't true) doubt the court will allow you to transfer to a private therapist to meet their requirements, but my room mate chose to go to one in addition to what the court ordered and it really helped him..to deal with all aspects of the situation and his own issues as well.

He ended up doing jail time for a few weekends as part of his sentence. All in all it was a real eye opening, expensive and harrowing experience to be certain. But he and many of the folks who went through this with him (as friends etc) are very unlikely to drink and drive. And that's the point of the whole thing, that the consequences are really really uncomfortable in every way shape and form.

As lousy as the "counselor" is, it may be better than doing time?

scotty2b4

I found this thread doing research on this scam. Its a scam, too bad there is nothing we can do about it. Im thinking this is the wrong forum to find out about this company and or personal experiences that patients may have encountered. If anyone has any info, I would greatly appreciate it.

jobei

Wow random, I posted this 4 years ago this week after like 7 days sober. Those classes turned out to be really good for me... taught me a lot of things about domestic abuse that I did not know. Ended up helping me spot the signs in my own relationships and others. As you can tell from this post I was really angry at the time like you are scotty...

Dee74

I'm glad it worked out Jobei.
Hope things work out for you too Scotty

D

tomsteve

NYdwi

Blew a .14, hired an attorney for $5000, got my DWI knocked down to dwai which has a $500 + fine, 90 day suspension, mandatory IDP course which is a total of $450 including DMV fees and class fee ..... and I have to complete this ******** OASAS program which I have been attending for 16 weeks. I get tested twice a week for any alcohol and drugs in my urine, I have to attend an anger management class, substance abuse class, and a 1 on 1 with the ****** ass counselor,.... I am on the health industry and know for a fact about the kickbacks involving the urine testing.... they charge the insurances thousands of dollars per test, ....Ive seen the checks with my own eyes, the payout from insurances to these labs that charge less than $100 for the same test they charge over a thousand to the insurance.... I've heard about the kickbacks from companies pitching their services..... The counselor is a pretentious douchebag who himself can't stop smoking cigarettes and yet preaches about how to combat addiction.... I was told that this was a 16 week course then I'm told after 2 months in the program that it runs 4-6 months or more....i was told it was 16 weeks when I first took this alcohol evaluation which was required from the court. This evaluation that i came to realize that no one every passes , not even Jesus himself because of the whole wine thing... if you have ever touched alcohol you are in the program . .. so coming from a DWI you are automaticly in. They lied to me about how long the program is from the beginning, ...they scare you into saying they gave you the lightest sentence involving the program as there are 3 tiers and you received the lightest one. While I understand the intentions of this program all I see is a moneygrab and labeling everyone that comes to the program as an alcoholic.... yeah I drink does that make me alcoholic... to me if you are addicted to alcohol then you are an alcoholic which I am not.... I like it, I don't crave it....i made a mistake, I accept my punishment, I have played over $7000, spent many hours, but this program ******** is off no help .... it's a scam....

Dee74

Hi and welcome NYDwi

For a programme that offers anger management it sure makes a lot of folks angry.....

.14 is a very high reading .

I'm glad that you're ok and that the OASAS programme is the worst of the consequences you have to face.

If you ever decide that you are an alcoholic you'll find a lot of support here.

D

August252015

I went through a LOT of "YETS." I lost a lot. I was mad at my probation of license for a year, and mad that I "lost" at trial two or so years after my DUI because we wanted to get me off. Apparently, my behavior at the arrest site was WAY worse than I was convinced of once I came down.

Lots of denial, anger, resentment, etc kept me drinking and justifying it a long (LONG) time at great cost to me and others in so many ways. I am so fortunate I never killed anyone or myself- especially the last time I drove drunk....and blew a 0.42 when my parents insisted on taking me to the hospital despite MY assurances I was fine (somehow I didn't get pulled over that night).

That still didn't get me to admit to my alcoholism.

Now I proudly speak up and out as a survivor, no long a victim.

I hope you can work through this anger- all the anger I had was only made WORSE by my kind of drinking, whatever I deemed it to be ("alcoholic" or not). I'll close by saying that IMO so many people don't drink- for various reasons, whether they or anyone else think they are alcoholics....when alcohol begins to damage our lives, possibly careers and families...our health....whatever the label is, those who stop drinking always benefit.

Best to you.

PeacefulWater12

I find when I react very strongly over something, it is because it has hit a raw nerve in me.

It prompts me to look deeper inside myself.

Glad you posted.

KG77

It's pretty interesting when zombie threads come back to life. I wish there was a way to check in with the OP to see what has happened over the last 6 years and if their position has changed at all.....