Planned relapse?
~sb
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: MD
Posts: 15,967
Here's a clue, fourth steps are written. My sponsor never attempted to read my fourth step and my higher power already had forgiven my transgressions. Many sponsors aren't interested in hearing your entire fifth step. When doing the fifth step you see patterns in your behavior and this results in a realization. It's this realization that creates a profound change in consciousness. My experience, twice these past 100+ days....
How badly do you want to stay stopped?
How badly do you want to stay stopped?
12-Step Recovered Alkie
Join Date: May 2010
Location: West Bloomfield, MI
Posts: 5,797
Fallow
Well, you mentioned sponsor and meetings......so I'll assume I can speak about AA stuff without ruffling feathers.
(in my examples, I'm going to give "my alcoholism" human qualities - not because I think it's human but because it helps illustrate the points)
We're warned, in the program, about how our alcoholism never goes away.......that it's always out there (to varying degrees), that we're never cured, and that our alcoholism is alllllllllways ready to take us back to the bottle.
How does it do this? (take us back out) Well, for the unrecoverable alkie, all it has to do be patient. If we're not growing in recovery we don't have the luxury of treading water for long...so we eventually sink back to booze.
What is the unrecovered alcoholic dealing with? - untreated alcoholism.
How does that untreated alcoholism feel? - well, the AA book suggests it makes us feel irritable, restless and discontent until we can experience that warm feeling of ease and comfort that comes at once with our next drink. It also suggests that untreated alcoholism manifests in having trouble with personal relationships, suffering from misery and depression, the inability to control our emotional states, having a feeling of uselessness (aka - self pity or depression), "we were full of fear, we were unhappy."
Ya see.......get ME, with my 4+ years of sobriety, to feel ^^THOSE^^ things for too long........and I know what I'm going to do! I'm going to go find some relief. Now, I may not pick up right away......but my experience shows me that I'll do it sooner or later.
When I read your posts......those things above are what I see.
So....sure, I get it, taking a drink seems to make sense to you. You may call it "planning a relapse" but I'll call it, assuming you're an alcoholic, doing the only thing you CAN do until you find true recovery - continue to drink....over and over.
That's what alcoholics do - we drink until it kills us or we find recovery.
I'd hiiiiiiiiiighly recommend you find out if you're an alcoholic or not (and I'd be happy to help you in that regard). If you aren't a chronic alcoholic (yet), then you've got a lot of choices......relapse, not relapse, will power, self control, controlled drinking, easing off, drinking only at certain times, drinking only certain types of alcohol, thinking through the drink, taking your time, etc.
If you are a "chronic alcoholic" , well......your choices are much simpler - live on a spiritual basis or die an alcoholic death.
yeah....I know.......that's crappy...... that second group is the one I found myself in. 2 choices? I mean......ca mooon! Right? Luckily, there's a solution even for that second group... and it's reeeeally cool to be recovered. REALLY cool.
Well, you mentioned sponsor and meetings......so I'll assume I can speak about AA stuff without ruffling feathers.
(in my examples, I'm going to give "my alcoholism" human qualities - not because I think it's human but because it helps illustrate the points)
We're warned, in the program, about how our alcoholism never goes away.......that it's always out there (to varying degrees), that we're never cured, and that our alcoholism is alllllllllways ready to take us back to the bottle.
How does it do this? (take us back out) Well, for the unrecoverable alkie, all it has to do be patient. If we're not growing in recovery we don't have the luxury of treading water for long...so we eventually sink back to booze.
What is the unrecovered alcoholic dealing with? - untreated alcoholism.
How does that untreated alcoholism feel? - well, the AA book suggests it makes us feel irritable, restless and discontent until we can experience that warm feeling of ease and comfort that comes at once with our next drink. It also suggests that untreated alcoholism manifests in having trouble with personal relationships, suffering from misery and depression, the inability to control our emotional states, having a feeling of uselessness (aka - self pity or depression), "we were full of fear, we were unhappy."
Ya see.......get ME, with my 4+ years of sobriety, to feel ^^THOSE^^ things for too long........and I know what I'm going to do! I'm going to go find some relief. Now, I may not pick up right away......but my experience shows me that I'll do it sooner or later.
When I read your posts......those things above are what I see.
So....sure, I get it, taking a drink seems to make sense to you. You may call it "planning a relapse" but I'll call it, assuming you're an alcoholic, doing the only thing you CAN do until you find true recovery - continue to drink....over and over.
That's what alcoholics do - we drink until it kills us or we find recovery.
I'd hiiiiiiiiiighly recommend you find out if you're an alcoholic or not (and I'd be happy to help you in that regard). If you aren't a chronic alcoholic (yet), then you've got a lot of choices......relapse, not relapse, will power, self control, controlled drinking, easing off, drinking only at certain times, drinking only certain types of alcohol, thinking through the drink, taking your time, etc.
If you are a "chronic alcoholic" , well......your choices are much simpler - live on a spiritual basis or die an alcoholic death.
yeah....I know.......that's crappy...... that second group is the one I found myself in. 2 choices? I mean......ca mooon! Right? Luckily, there's a solution even for that second group... and it's reeeeally cool to be recovered. REALLY cool.
Guest
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: near Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 377
Planned Relapses - they ALL are, of course.
Good meeting last night > discussed the fact that, most relapses occur about 1 week before the actual using.
Once you pick up, you have not in fact relapsed > you are using...you are WAY PAST the relapse.
If you drink at the wedding, will it set off the Phenomenon of Craving?
If so, all bets are off, what will happen next.
As my AA friend told me, alkies have a few options:
Sober up.
Locked up.
Covered up (corpse).
K out
Once you pick up, you have not in fact relapsed > you are using...you are WAY PAST the relapse.
If you drink at the wedding, will it set off the Phenomenon of Craving?
If so, all bets are off, what will happen next.
As my AA friend told me, alkies have a few options:
Sober up.
Locked up.
Covered up (corpse).
K out
Re-Tread
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Meditation
Posts: 1,300
Last night was a really restless sleep. The PAWS link hit the nail right on the head thanks for that Dee. I spent some time reading threads and tossin and turnin. I realize that this is me doubting wether I am truly alcoholic or just a 'hard drinker' if you will. This morning I spent 5-10 minutes thinking of all the most drunken nights of my life especially ones I did something I regret like fighting with my wife, barfights, getting arrested, blackouts and the like. Came up with more than 60 occasions top of my head. Im sure theres more. Thing is there have been hundreds of times where I drank socially or nothing bad occured. I know nobody can diagnose if I am alcoholic or not and Im not askin for that. Im scared to attempt it but I may have to try to find out my exact condition. Course I may not even feel like drinking on that day, I dont today thats for sure.
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,445
It was the times where nothing happened which were the most dangerous for me Fallow.
I'd give weight to those times over all the other (far greater) times when my drinking did cause problems.
The fact is, every time I raised that first glass to my lips, I never knew what I was setting myself up for.
I figure it was always down to luck - sometimes good, often bad.
but I always gave away control of my destiny when I drank...
D
I'd give weight to those times over all the other (far greater) times when my drinking did cause problems.
The fact is, every time I raised that first glass to my lips, I never knew what I was setting myself up for.
I figure it was always down to luck - sometimes good, often bad.
but I always gave away control of my destiny when I drank...
D
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,947
Hmm... still planning that relapse, I see... 
Lot's of us, probably ALL of us can come up with hundreds (thousands, I am in my 50's) of times where we drank and nothing bad has happened.
Thing is... when something bad happened, were we planning on it?
That whole hard drinker vs. alcoholic thing... a necessary journey to be sure, but one best taken with another person, one who can call us on our denial.... or you can look to the big book of Alcoholics Anonymous... Try drinking just one or two, every night... see if you can. Or, better yet, try to not drink for like a year, or even 6 months, and see how that works out...
Maybe you are a hard drinker... maybe not... Seems like you have some unmanageability going on... arrests, fights, marital discord... think about it.
Keep coming back!
Lot's of us, probably ALL of us can come up with hundreds (thousands, I am in my 50's) of times where we drank and nothing bad has happened.
Thing is... when something bad happened, were we planning on it?
That whole hard drinker vs. alcoholic thing... a necessary journey to be sure, but one best taken with another person, one who can call us on our denial.... or you can look to the big book of Alcoholics Anonymous... Try drinking just one or two, every night... see if you can. Or, better yet, try to not drink for like a year, or even 6 months, and see how that works out...
Maybe you are a hard drinker... maybe not... Seems like you have some unmanageability going on... arrests, fights, marital discord... think about it.
Keep coming back!
SR Fan
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 7,910
Hi Fallow - I'm glad you posted, too.....(and congrats on 46 days!!)
I went through the same thing during the holidays last year. It was my first Christmas sober in a long time, I had worked really hard on my sobriety for 6-7 months, and an image started running through my mind: a fire, twinkle lights, and a glass of wine. The holidays hadn't even come, and I already felt left out and sad about not being able to be festive...... all I needed was just a couple of drinks to have a perfect night. yeah, right.....
We can get through detox, feel good about ourselves again, accept that we're alcoholics, work hard on recovery and STILL have these thoughts. That's why a place like this is so great - we need the input of others to look at them for what they are.
I got through the holidays and lots of other "firsts" last year and it will be a lot easier this year. Now that I have a little more sober time, I can see how irrational those thoughts were. I mean really, when was I ever happy with just a couple of drinks?
I went through the same thing during the holidays last year. It was my first Christmas sober in a long time, I had worked really hard on my sobriety for 6-7 months, and an image started running through my mind: a fire, twinkle lights, and a glass of wine. The holidays hadn't even come, and I already felt left out and sad about not being able to be festive...... all I needed was just a couple of drinks to have a perfect night. yeah, right.....
We can get through detox, feel good about ourselves again, accept that we're alcoholics, work hard on recovery and STILL have these thoughts. That's why a place like this is so great - we need the input of others to look at them for what they are.
I got through the holidays and lots of other "firsts" last year and it will be a lot easier this year. Now that I have a little more sober time, I can see how irrational those thoughts were. I mean really, when was I ever happy with just a couple of drinks?
Re-Tread
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Meditation
Posts: 1,300
Came back and starting with an update. I went and drank pre bachelor party with no problems. Ended up getting rather drunk at the party but didnt feel too bad as all of us were...still made work in the morning. Had 3 cocktails at the wedding. Went on a wine tasting vacation with my family no major problems there. Over the past few months things progressively got worse. Ive blacked out about 6 or 7 times in the past two months, which have been the longest darkest amnesia episodes of my life. A lot of fighting with my wife and awful hangovers and anxiety. A week ago was the breaking point as I got drunk on Irish whiskey throughout the day starting with coffees, never ate and woke up the next day at a complete loss of what happened from about 5pm thru midnight. All I know is I went to a party and luckily nobody was hurt and I woke up in bed. My wife wasnt too unhappy but the fear of things I said or did was overwhelming. I knew this had to be the end. I cannot allow myself to argue am I a hard drinker or alcoholic any longer as it is irrelevant. Though there have been many days of non-abusive one drink days in the preceeding months too many binge drinking episodes to think I am safe to have alcohol in my system. Right now I am still nervous, shaky, palpitating, sweaty, angry, hopeful, confused, and wanting to jump out of my own skin. This is all worse because after making 50 days and falling apart last time I know the degree of difficulty is going to be super high. The level of worry I have is like Im about to climb K2...
I hope I can make this.
Fallow, one week on
I hope I can make this.
Fallow, one week on
Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Midwest
Posts: 553
Hi there -
I'm in the same spot....a little over a week here again. Started to get confident after 45 days of sobriety a month back, feeling like I was missing out, and then decided I could just have a couple. Two weeks later I was right back where I started. What I learned is that you have to want it more than anything. ANYTHING! For me, that took conducting an experiment with myself to see if I really could have just a couple and once again I found out I could not, nor was I missing out, nor was it fun.
Thanks for sharing. Glad to see you back and keep trying...I'll do the same.
I'm in the same spot....a little over a week here again. Started to get confident after 45 days of sobriety a month back, feeling like I was missing out, and then decided I could just have a couple. Two weeks later I was right back where I started. What I learned is that you have to want it more than anything. ANYTHING! For me, that took conducting an experiment with myself to see if I really could have just a couple and once again I found out I could not, nor was I missing out, nor was it fun.
Thanks for sharing. Glad to see you back and keep trying...I'll do the same.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 176
I planned my relapse... in the sense that I let that thought grow in my mind for too long.
I knew every step I was taking that day to get drunk. I had inclinations in my mind that I was going to sip and enjoy... even when I bought enough liquor to properly last for about 3 or 4 days.
The alcoholic mind is not something to play with. You will end up confused and wondering "what the f" just happend over the last few days, and all before you realize it. Now it's back to day 1, step 1... learning to crawl, and then walk, and then eventually get back to being somewhat stable.
I only say this because I know from experience... multiple experiences. It's not worth it in every sense of the word.
I knew every step I was taking that day to get drunk. I had inclinations in my mind that I was going to sip and enjoy... even when I bought enough liquor to properly last for about 3 or 4 days.
The alcoholic mind is not something to play with. You will end up confused and wondering "what the f" just happend over the last few days, and all before you realize it. Now it's back to day 1, step 1... learning to crawl, and then walk, and then eventually get back to being somewhat stable.
I only say this because I know from experience... multiple experiences. It's not worth it in every sense of the word.
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,445
Welcome back Fallow
You've discovered what I did - we may have some 'not too bad' drinking periods but sooner or later, we always end up in that same bad place.
You're among friends here - use the support and the ideas - maybe instead of K2 you can make this time a largeish hill...
D
You've discovered what I did - we may have some 'not too bad' drinking periods but sooner or later, we always end up in that same bad place.
You're among friends here - use the support and the ideas - maybe instead of K2 you can make this time a largeish hill...
D
Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: London, England
Posts: 50
Welcome back Fallow.
For some of us, it takes a relapse (or more) before we can completely accept that we are alcoholic and commit wholeheartedly to sobriety.
You're on the right track now. Don't worry - try and look forward with positivity. You're not "giving up drinking", you're gaining self respect, dignity, serenity, energy, positive relationships......and all those other things that alcoholic robs us of.
For some of us, it takes a relapse (or more) before we can completely accept that we are alcoholic and commit wholeheartedly to sobriety.
You're on the right track now. Don't worry - try and look forward with positivity. You're not "giving up drinking", you're gaining self respect, dignity, serenity, energy, positive relationships......and all those other things that alcoholic robs us of.
Re-Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado
Posts: 7,583
WB Fallow and thanks for posting. I have not relapsed and that is mostly because of folks like you relating the particulars of their relapses. Don't get me wrong, until I really quit I relapsed daily for several years. But the reminders definitely don't hurt, all of them.
Community Greeter
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 51,569
Hi Fallow - it's so great to have you back. I had to learn the same way as you - there is no control once that first drink passes our lips. I desperately clung to the idea that I was in control - I could use willpower. Yes, sometimes we'll make it out ok - but if we keep dancing with the devil we will eventually go down.
Thanks for the reminder of what can happen. Things will be different this time - you're going to do this thing.
Thanks for the reminder of what can happen. Things will be different this time - you're going to do this thing.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Young,NSW
Posts: 9
Fallow, I have been in a similar position. 2 thinngs happened
I didnt drink and nobody gave a **** whether i did or not, they were all too busy thinking and worying about themselves.
2. I was so glad the next day i didnt, i still had my sobriety which is the most important thing in my life. Try not to forcast, just take it moment by moment
I didnt drink and nobody gave a **** whether i did or not, they were all too busy thinking and worying about themselves.
2. I was so glad the next day i didnt, i still had my sobriety which is the most important thing in my life. Try not to forcast, just take it moment by moment
I'm here to learn!
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: I'm on it!
Posts: 2,038
Welcome back Fallow --
Sorry to hear of your woes. I know it may be hard to imagine right now, but there is hope in sobriety and things do get much better.
Keep posting, we're here for you.
Sorry to hear of your woes. I know it may be hard to imagine right now, but there is hope in sobriety and things do get much better.
Keep posting, we're here for you.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: ohio
Posts: 39
Fallow I did the same exact thing, I planned my wedding and planned to drink at the reception. Lost 2 years of sobriety just to find it took me 5 months to stop and yet another medical detox. One of the best days of my life turned into 1 of the worst. That was 8 years ago and been sober ever since. Learn from this, Get into a program, get some support and push ahead. glad your back
good luck
good luck
Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,095
Originally Posted by Fallow 
... I realized I could never do a 4th step with him...
Some made it back and some did not. Of those that returned, some of them went through the Steps again with a new sense of desperation and have recovered and remained sober. Some of the others tried the same half-measures thing again and again, and have struggled for years in and out of the rooms.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,698
Fallow, I also would recommend reading more on the PAW syndrome, you are at one of the milestones mentioned in that article. I am reading up to understand more as I have an addicted son who is approaching his 4 months sober date and currently in rehab. His DOC was heroin, but I think the addiction syndrome fits everyone.
Such excellent words of wisdom were shared, thank you for opening up. People care here
Hugs
Teresa
Such excellent words of wisdom were shared, thank you for opening up. People care here
Hugs
Teresa
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: "I'm not lost for I know where I am. But however, where I am may be lost ..."
Posts: 5,273
I decided after 10 years that drinking again was a good idea. The results were as you described Fallow, except that it lasted for 7 years and I barely made it out alive...literally. So glad you are back!
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