MarylandRick

I think it is a very valid point. I drink them because 1) I like them, 2) to feel what I perceive as normal, and 3) because it limits questions about not drinking. But once I stopped drinking I realized those questions didn't come near as much as I thought they would. As my sobriety progressed I became proud of the fact that I wasn't drinking and the need to have an N/A beer quickly diminshed. The times I decided to only became for reason 1 and 2.

Dee74

Lots of good advice here already...so...Welcome Rick

D

EmeraldRose

That is exactly the problem. People drink them to 'feel normal'. But we are talking normal for an alcoholic.
The whole basis of recovery is to change your habits and your alcoholic behavior. By drinking NA beer you are not completely changing...the thought, the temptation and the desire still lurks. I feel by completely removing such temptation it is easier to change your habits into a non alcoholic lifestyle.
I don't drink apple juice in a wine glass either! LOL

least

Welcome to our very supportive family.

ulverston

slips can be good if we learn from them

MarylandRick

Thanks everyone for the responses. A lot of great information. I'm feeling nearly 100% back today, no strong desire drink yesterday, we'll see how Friday afternoon goes. Honestly, I am not too worried, I plan to get back on my excercise wagon this afternoon.

At the moment, I am struggling most in my head. I know I can stop drinking, I did it for nearly 8 months, but I'm concerned with why I relapsed.

I'm getting mixed feedback from this site, there seem to be two schools of thought; 1) Don't worry about why you drank but what you are going to do so you don't relapse again, and 2) it is important to find the root of your problem, that drinking is just a symptom.

I realize there isn't a right or wrong way but those two seem somewhat contradictory.

laurie6781

Both are important.

1) is very true. You do need to get into some type of program or with a counselor, and this will come to pass as you work on the 'deeper' causes of the drinking. Alcohol is usually just a 'symptom' of deeper issues.

2) yes it is 'important' to find the root, and that will come about by find a program and/or getting a counselor and being honest with working said program and/or with the counselor.

Unfortunately, in my long time recovery, I have not seen one person that just stops drinking and goes on with doing everything else as they have always done, stay sober. On the other hand, I have seen many, that have stopped drinking, used additional help, be it AA, SMART, reading and applying recovery information to their lives, coming here, etc

You just have to decide which method or methods you want to explore to work on you, besides your exercise routine.

Please keep posting, as we do care!

Love and hugs,

Brette

Like you Rick, I fell into SR as I struggle in early sobriety -- and search for what has been at the root of why I drink. I'm thrilled to say that after having joined in May, I've gotten more clarity. That's because I'm here nearly every day -- if only to read.

I've been to the live chatrooms too -- which have been great stand-ins as "meeting rooms" when I can't get to a traditional AA meet. (I travel for work and can't get to a LIVE AA meet after an 18 hour day or so.)

As you can see, there's tremendous wisdom and kindness in these threads -- and by the way, a lot of good writers too!

THANK YOU for writing your post. It was a gift to me because it put into words my recent struggle: I went 19 days then "slipped" and had two drinks. Now I'm back straight again. But those two drinks were a window into my addiction. I could tell that I had the impulse to keep drinking. I understand that I've got an IMPULSE.

There's a lot to learn here. The sharing is amazing.

FNB3

Hey MarylandRick,

Thanks for the post. You and I have a lot in common. I'm a 35-year-old, have a family, and didn't care for a program other than going on a "health and fitness kick". I lost a bunch of extra lbs. too.

I tried for a really, really, really long time to fix my problems my own way. I'm a problem solver, you know?

I now try to follow a path that so many have had so much success with. I never wanted to be lumped in with all the pathetic souls (how I viewed them at one time) that were in AA and I was embarrassed to be with all of those crazy, singing Christians too.

Eventually I figured out that my way didn't work.

Don't know what to tell you except that you sound just like many of us here and that there is a better way. I'm glad you are here with us. This place can go great things or you. One thing I would definitely recommend is journaling just a couple minutes a day. Reflecting on it after time can teach you a lot about yourself and why you do the things that you do.

MarylandRick

Thanks Brette! Glad you had the strength to keep your slip to a minimum. Even though mine lasted two weeks I feel fortunate it was not as bad as it could have been. My withdrawls after Memorial Day weekend were not near as bad as I've eperienced in the past but were strong enough to remind me that I was 'dancing with the devil' so to say and I know I don't want to go there.

I am not sure what kind of support I am going to seek out yet beyond SB. Just posting here was a big step for me but I am really feeling tremendous benefits already from the support given.

Threshold

When I first got clean, I found this site and it was a support for me. At that time I was recovering from major surgery and was unable to leave my home. The few weeks I spent on here, with the luxury of being able to spend a great deal of time here, made me give the idea of getting into NA some serious thought. The first place I went when I got the OK to drive again was my first NA meeting.

Getting support was the first of many helpful suggestions I got from other recovering addicts. There are many different programs and recovery routes out there, I didn't feel like I was in any condition to reinvent the wheel at that time. The program has offered so much that I still feel there is no reason for me to reinvent the wheel, wait...until I relapse.

Ugh, relapse happens when I set down that first all important suggestion "don't pick up".

When I go my own way, I get stupid real fast. I know in MY life, I need to do more than not use. I need to fill my life with things that are better than using, that have results that I find more satisfying than the crappola that using resulted in. Just not using wasn't enough for me.

Can a relapse serve a purpose? Yes, if we let it AND if it doesn't kill us first.
If we use the information about why we relapsed, what will happen if we relaspse again, and don't hurt, maim or kill ourselves or others in the process, a relapse can provide information we can use. But it's certainly not the smartest way to learn. Attending meetings, coming here, sharing with and learning from others in recovery is preferrable to relapsing.

MarylandRick

Thanks FNB2! Your words are my thoughts exactly. I am a problem solver and a stubborn one at that. I have a successful career, a great wife, family and home. Yet there is one thing I can't seem to overcome or control (I'm a bit of a control freak too).

Being here for only 2 days is pushing me more and more towards some sort of formal program. It's a difficult step though.

Nirvana1

To talk about the other end of the spectrum, My dad is coming up on 12 years sober and he drinks a ton of N/A beer. It is more for the taste, but I can't get a straight answer for why he drinks like 3-4 a night.

Since he has been able to stay sober this long I can't say he is doing anything wrong, but I do agree that drinking the N/A beer doesn't break old habits and does act as a stepping stone for real alcohol.

I heard in a meeting yesterday. "I was out drinking Odouls and next thing you know I was drinking a corona. It looked like an Odouls so I said what the hell."

Off to the races again, which you will hear lasts for years.

There are also some where you won't hear their bad relapse stories because they don't live long enough to tell them.

LSNP

Hi and thanks for this post.

I was completely dry for about a month... then the ex came back and LOVED the idea of trying to work it out sober.... then wanted to take me out of town and "have a little wine" to loosen things up a bit....

Didn't do bad that day. Didn't drink again until the next weekend and then not much. Drank on Memorial Day (with the ex.....) and yesterday (got a buzz, that time).

The thing is? I'm not sure if I can control it or not as I haven't seriously craved during the in between.... but what I DO know is that the strength I felt before is subsiding (strength in life) and the focus is fading and I'm riddled with anxiety and depression today.

I broke up with the ex again last Tuesday because I think that he, like alcohol, is not good for me. The thing is, between the anxiety and bad feelings I have when I am with him and the anxiety and bad feelings I have about even drinking at all........ I can't decide WHAT is wrong. I'm not blaming my drinking on him...... I just don't know how I feel right now.

I'm so ticked that he came back into my life. I have a hard time saying NO to him (I have no idea why) and he won't admit it but he LIKES me to drink and really put on the pressure the first night. Even opened the **** in the car on the way out of town. Sigh.

I think I need to quit both.

It's hard.

Brette

Interestingly MaryLandRick -- your post created LOTS of threads... which speaks to the intelligence of this website and the issues that you brought up.

ONE of the many things I've gained from reading your post (as well as others in the response threads) is that those of us with the Alcoholic gene have a great impulse to keep on drinking... which spirals into a whole other set of problems.

Hell, yea, drinking feels good -- but it comes with a cost. The problem is that the cost is SOOOO expensive compared to the gain. Each individual comes to his or her conclusion on his or her own.

Keep posting stuff. YOU'RE HITTING A NERVE for a lot of us.

So what have YOU learned from your "slip?"

MarylandRick

Hey all! 1st and foremost I survived the weekend. Thanks so much for all the support given last week, it paid dividends on Saturday.

Friday was actually an easy night, we spent the night on the water (always a heavy drinking envronment) and I really had no cravings. Saturday however was another story. I was stocking up on groceries and supplies for an overnight boating excursion and I felt very compelled to buy regular beer opposed to the N/A beer.

I found it very interesting because during my 8 months of sobriety I set foot in liquor store many times to buy N/A beer or even regular alcohol for any number of events/gatherings we may have been doing. Going to the store never triggered it for me until Saturday. My plan was to pound a few before I met up with my wife.

I immediately began thinking of this thread and all the discussion we had on here last week and managed to pull through. Plus the thought of the sneaking and lies made me sick. Getting out of there, getting home and drinking an N/A beer allowed the urge to pass even further.

So, the question for me of N/A beer is still not answered but is more clear. I recall when I quit in October that I drank a lot of N/A beer. As my sobriety carried on I drank less and less because the uge was less (plus I was cutting calories). Perhaps the illusion of drinking is good in the begginning but ultimately a bad thing because, as others have said, the desire still lingers?

guyinyvr

Hey Maryland Rick

Glad you are here and hmm suspect you see a lot of folks have had a similar set of circumstances happen to them...false confidence and denial of what AA calls step 1..that once we start to drink it becomes all consuming no matter how long we stayed off , how much we try to control it...

For myself , geez wish I had a dollar for all the relapses along the way but as they became tougher to climb out of , the more it left me at a decision point about drinking so perhaps that is not uncommon. Luckily I had this in my face and I was aware of it before I had gone down a sewer hole but the path looked pretty clear to me, if I did nothing , nothing would change and that future would be bleak.

What I found is I that I did not stop for anyone else but myself and my HP. Solemn oaths to others meant little in the past as I broke them , it took a deep down self awareness and a definite fork in the road , one leading to more hell and misery with the booze, or one with a hope and promise without it.

My wife is not an alcoholic and not a heavy drinker luckily but is not really aware of what we go through staying sober. I am but a few months clean , again , and I am coping with what I can but I am irritable at times, suffer form obsessive thoughts and a lot of other post withdrawal behaviours. Unfortunately this has us at a difficult time right now as she really does not understand how this comes about and how difficult the road is. Whatever the case may be , even with this difficulty , I can't lose sight of staying on the right path. This will pass and perhaps some time down the road my wife will take up with Al-Anon or other support to help her cope with her own feelings of frustration, anger and hurt. One thing for sure is going off on a spree is the last thing to help anything .

I have never really played with near-beer or wine as I simply feel its way to risky for me. Call it a trigger or playing with fire....been burnt too many time too many different ways with too many of my own lame excuses. For myself , my image of me as a drinker is horrible and the sober image so much more positive with its difficulties and all.

Anyway my $0.02 and glad you are here and just reading what you went through had me playing my own tape to the end as a refresher. Thanks!

SwanSong

Welcome to the family. I think it's a small percentage of people who get sobriety right on their first go (or their first several attempts). As my sponsor says when somebody with years decides to leave AA and returns to drinking - 'we drink (or use), it's what we do'. It is so ingrained in us as a way of behavior that as everyone else has said that saying, I'm paraphrasing here, 'the old me used to drink, the me I am now will drink again too, I need to become a new me if I don't want to drink again' is very, very true.

The discussion of is relapse a part of recovery or not is not what I want to drum up, rather make some observations (as I've started doing) based on my own experience in life and seeing others go through this. In the end, when I relapsed after my first attempt in AA back in 2008' I tried to get back in right away and failed miserably. The guilt, shame, remorse, emotional pain, and wounded ego prevented me from getting back to recovery. If I had only made it back I could have prevented so much more damage (financially, legally, emotionally, physically) - and I keep that in mind now when things are tough- stick it out, the old life has a track record that is indisputable. So the fact that you've made it this far after being out for 2 weeks (which IS a long time, for many of us that is more than enough time for us to seriously hang ourselves) is something to be proud of. I think this experience may help you in the long run, you've really pinpointed one of the key pieces of addiction- that you felt as though you could return to drinking after a period of sobriety. Never forget that and what happened.

As to the NA beers topic, I was having this discussion with a friend of mine who is almost 2 years sober and just drops in to AA meetings from time to time, he works his own program as some here on SR do (and clearly believes in changing himself) and he drinks NA beers a few times throughout the year. I asked him why, he said he actually likes the taste. I, like Anna and others, don't see the point. But I also don't believe as a member of AA or SR that it is my right to judge other people's sobriety. I won't tell somebody they aren't sober or doing it 'right' because they drink NA beer. I've never seen somebody drunk off of NA beer- whether it is a good idea for you and your sobriety is between you and you're higher power (or whatever it is you believe in).

Again, welcome. I hope you leverage this experience to the absolute maximum in terms of learning and again - remember this if you ever get to comfortable or confident again. If you do that, then yes I think this will help you now in the long run. If not, you may just think you can drink again and then get back to recovery- problem is, a lot of times, more often than not, we don't make it back. I don't say those words lightly.

And thanks for sharing, that takes guts too.

SwanSong

MarylandRick I just read your most recent post. This is pretty common immediately after a relapse- the obsession to drink has power again - LOTS of power. It may not hurt to attend some meetings and get some in-person support be it AA or SMART etc., especially while you figure out what you want to do differently with your recovery program this time around. I have to leave for work (already late!) but I remember being where you are at right now and it is a very precarious place. More than just SR may not be a bad idea. Just a thought.

theatredork

Welcome MarylandRick- I haven't been posting in a while but have been sober for close to 3 months. I've been going to AA for a little less than 2 months (every day) and here are my two cents, from what I've learned thus far as a relative newbie:

1. Re: the "contradictory statements" - I think people are saying that yes, you need to get to the root of the problem to achieve long term sobriety, but in order to get there you need to focus on what you need to do day-to-day to stay sober. Don't focus on the root right away, necessarily, or if you feel like you can't that's okay - put one foot in front of the other, do what other people recommend and when you are ready (and work the 12 steps) you can focus on that spirituality and roots of the problems. The 12 steps help you through each day and lead you to long-term sobriety... but you can't get to long-term sobriety without short-term sobriety first.

2. There are a lot of people who say that relapse is part of recovery - this can get tricky because it's easy to take that as "hey! I can just relapse! it's okay!." But there are plenty of people who never releapse. A lot of people say that you won't achieve long-term sobriety until you are truly ready - hit bottom (whatever that means to you) or are SURE you're an alcoholic (again that means different things to different people)... when you TRULY don't want to drink again.

3. The NA beer thing. I know everyone is different again, but for me it would be very hard to drink NA beer and not drink again. If you drink 10 NA beers, that's like drinking 2 MGD 64s. Your body know there's a 0.5% alcohol content. Not to mention the smell, the taste, the carbonation, the bottle shape all bring back the memories of regular beer. I just think it would be very difficult to stay sober for a long time. Personally, I associate beer with getting drunk. Granted, I used to drink craft beers for the taste/compare, etc... and not always drink to the point of inebriation. Same with wine - tasting the occasional $30 bottle, sharing with friends... but when it came down to it, I am an alcoholic and I wanted to get drunk most of the time and I wanted to do it cheaply... so beer was beer, wine was wine... just ways of delivering alcohol. I don't like to be reminded - hate smelling it especially. Not to mention actually going into a liquor store (shudder). Eventually it might be okay to go into a liquor store... but not early in sobriety. It depends on your pattern, I suppose, so some poeple might have a hard time in restaurants, other in drugstores... my point is, I always hear people recommend you avoid it.

4. The biggest thing that has helped me has been my sponser. She has recommended I go to a meeting every day (I grumbled - but I'm used to it now) - people often recommend 90 meetings in 90 days. She has offered concrete tasks to help me feel that I have accomplished the steps and move on to the next... she has me call her every day, get numbers from people... a sponsor is great for helping you with the day-to-day things that will keep you sober.

Finally, I was kind of like you - I went through several periods of sobriety by myself - months at a time. I felt great. But when the time came that I was tempted, not feeling great, or feeling so great that I wanted to celebrate - I went right back to where I was. So now I'm getting help and even though I feel good now, I'm hoping that practicing reaching out and understaning and praying and goign to meetings and posting here will help when the time comes that I will truly be tempted. Because it probably will come - it always did before.