Dry Drunk? what is it?
Adventures In SpaceTime
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 5,827
Originally Posted by LaFemme 
What's interesting to me is this...I have been trying to get sober 5 Years now...I am currently at 12 days which is a massive record for me, sad but true. Also I feel amazing, really positive, no real cravings. The thing is I have spent the past 5 years doing a ton of work on myself, and I don't think I would stand a chance of getting sober if I hadn't already done so much work.
So in a way, a person who can abstain without having done the work on themselves is really impressive to me. If that makes any sense:-)
So in a way, a person who can abstain without having done the work on themselves is really impressive to me. If that makes any sense:-)
Congrats on your 12 Days LaFemme!!
RR
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 20,458
Originally Posted by Bamboozle
I hate the phrase 'dry drunk'.
It's not helpful...and people usually call others that as an insult...a way to place judgement on someone else's sobriety.
Obviously being sober isn't a simple thing. We're still human whether sober or not...and with that comes all of the problems and emotions of life.
Many folks find that when they stop drinking that they are dealing with an untreated mental illness. I have depression...and the depression doesn't care that I don't drink. Some days are really tough.
I get really concerned with the term being thrown around when people use it to mean anyone who hasn't found 'serenity' or whatever in being sober.
I think that when people get this misconception stuck in their heads...as though they should feel good and peaceful about sobriety...
It's not helpful...and people usually call others that as an insult...a way to place judgement on someone else's sobriety.
Obviously being sober isn't a simple thing. We're still human whether sober or not...and with that comes all of the problems and emotions of life.
Many folks find that when they stop drinking that they are dealing with an untreated mental illness. I have depression...and the depression doesn't care that I don't drink. Some days are really tough.
I get really concerned with the term being thrown around when people use it to mean anyone who hasn't found 'serenity' or whatever in being sober.
I think that when people get this misconception stuck in their heads...as though they should feel good and peaceful about sobriety...
agreed, 100%. I read posts where the term "dry drunk" is thrown out if you aren't in a specific program or doing what *they* term you *need* to do to maintain sobriety forever through their program and it is the ONLY way, otherwise you are *just* a dry drunk.
my problems and my ongoing depression didn't magically disappear with sobriety, they are still there sometimes more up close and personal than others...I do deal with them differently and have much less anxiety about them.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,947
The only time I use the phrase, it is silently and refers to myself... I am the only who can really know where I am at spiritually...
I see behavior in others that gives me pause, I don't understand... But whether or not they are a "Dry Drunk"... I have no idea, nor do I have to know... I am busy dealing with my own recovery.
I see behavior in others that gives me pause, I don't understand... But whether or not they are a "Dry Drunk"... I have no idea, nor do I have to know... I am busy dealing with my own recovery.
Guest
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 2,013
I think the wikipedia definition is pretty accurate. Though obviously, as much in recovery is, subjectivity comes into play for many phrases/philosophy's etc.
To me it means that I would still be thinking, acting, behaving, feeling exactly the same as when I was an active alcoholic. But just minus the booze. So that means that I was a total b*stard to be around. Resentful, ungrateful and generally feeling sorry for myself that i couldn't get wasted.
Basically acting like a selfish, self-centred alcoholic, just minus the release they would get from taking drinks. So even more p*ssed-off.
Like many things in recovery then these things mean different things for different people. I also agree that it is a term that can be banded about by some of the so called "recovered" crowd, who actually in describing others as 'dry drunks', are outlining how they aren't much better themselves. Point scoring isn't why I got sober but it can go that way if you aren't careful.
I look at it very simply. If you're sober and happy about that then that's all that matters. If you're sober and unhappy about it then you need to get working your recovery to get happy about it again. Whatever that may entail for the individual.
peace
To me it means that I would still be thinking, acting, behaving, feeling exactly the same as when I was an active alcoholic. But just minus the booze. So that means that I was a total b*stard to be around. Resentful, ungrateful and generally feeling sorry for myself that i couldn't get wasted.
Basically acting like a selfish, self-centred alcoholic, just minus the release they would get from taking drinks. So even more p*ssed-off.
Like many things in recovery then these things mean different things for different people. I also agree that it is a term that can be banded about by some of the so called "recovered" crowd, who actually in describing others as 'dry drunks', are outlining how they aren't much better themselves. Point scoring isn't why I got sober but it can go that way if you aren't careful.
I look at it very simply. If you're sober and happy about that then that's all that matters. If you're sober and unhappy about it then you need to get working your recovery to get happy about it again. Whatever that may entail for the individual.
peace
Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Cary, NC
Posts: 715
I dislike the term but it's not really my place to control how other people use it in their sobriety. If it works for others, cool. It's just not for me.
My problem is this: my personal, emotional, and spiritual problems predated my drinking my a long, long time. I had issues before I was an alcoholic and will continue to have issues in sobriety.
So, when I'm acting self-centered, selfish, egotistical, arrogant, and self-piteous in sobriety, I don't see myself as a dry drunk.
I'm just acting like a self-centered, selfish, egotistical, arrogant, and self-piteous person.
For others, that might be an irrelevant distinction. For me, it's important. My alcoholism is not the single most important determinant of who I am. It's part of me and always will be, but it's just that: a part.
No more, no less.
My problem is this: my personal, emotional, and spiritual problems predated my drinking my a long, long time. I had issues before I was an alcoholic and will continue to have issues in sobriety.
So, when I'm acting self-centered, selfish, egotistical, arrogant, and self-piteous in sobriety, I don't see myself as a dry drunk.
I'm just acting like a self-centered, selfish, egotistical, arrogant, and self-piteous person.
For others, that might be an irrelevant distinction. For me, it's important. My alcoholism is not the single most important determinant of who I am. It's part of me and always will be, but it's just that: a part.
No more, no less.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 1,591
LaFemme, I think you have a better picture of what the phrase means at this point, and there have been some good explanations. Sometimes I ask myself if I am being a dry drunk when I change routines or put something off till later. That's because I am emotionally invested in the recovery path I took after I quit drinking.
What I think is important is to recognize certain actions or thoughts as similar to the ones that were tied to drinking. Something like remembering somebody who acted in a way you resented or still do - and you either validate it in your mind or move on. I associate drunken behavior with validating it and "keeping" it instead of moving on. I don't expect to be perfect at this one example alone, let alone any of the others we could think up. In fact, part of that style of thinking is a mental asset, the ability to make distinctions and judgments in a world that is not pie in the sky. But there is a new limit to how much power I give to that style of thinking (resentment), and how it will affect me. That last part is where I see a changed person in me, and it's like I pressed not Pause but Stop on the drinking when I quit.
What I think is important is to recognize certain actions or thoughts as similar to the ones that were tied to drinking. Something like remembering somebody who acted in a way you resented or still do - and you either validate it in your mind or move on. I associate drunken behavior with validating it and "keeping" it instead of moving on. I don't expect to be perfect at this one example alone, let alone any of the others we could think up. In fact, part of that style of thinking is a mental asset, the ability to make distinctions and judgments in a world that is not pie in the sky. But there is a new limit to how much power I give to that style of thinking (resentment), and how it will affect me. That last part is where I see a changed person in me, and it's like I pressed not Pause but Stop on the drinking when I quit.
Guest
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 2,013
Originally Posted by Toronto68
and it's like I pressed not Pause but Stop on the drinking when I quit.
I Like that mate. It just jumped out at me as being a way of looking at it that I never had before. Very visual too.
Thanks.
Karma Amputee
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Among The Living
Posts: 769
IMO, a somewhat derogatory term, in AA parlance it can be said to mean...
"Any alcoholic who is no longer drinking but quit on his or her terms, not ours"
i.e., a sober person who did not work the 12 Steps.
See also, "One stepper"
"Any alcoholic who is no longer drinking but quit on his or her terms, not ours"
i.e., a sober person who did not work the 12 Steps.
See also, "One stepper"
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Jerusalem, Israel
Posts: 48
Originally Posted by Draciack
So, when I'm acting self-centered, selfish, egotistical, arrogant, and self-piteous in sobriety, I don't see myself as a dry drunk.I'm just acting like a self-centered, selfish, egotistical, arrogant, and self-piteous person.
For others, that might be an irrelevant distinction. For me, it's important. My alcoholism is not the single most important determinant of who I am. It's part of me and always will be, but it's just that: a part. No more, no less.
For others, that might be an irrelevant distinction. For me, it's important. My alcoholism is not the single most important determinant of who I am. It's part of me and always will be, but it's just that: a part. No more, no less.
I would say that a dry drunk is someone engaging in an extremely erratic, irresponsible, dangerous and in some cases illegal manner. Thinking, dwelling and fixating on using and behaving in a manner that goes well beyond the boundaries of one's inherent baggage that they have carried their entire lives.
Basically, the way they are behaving - they may as well be drinking.,...(but hopefully do not - and seek help immediately because they need it desperately)
Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dallas, Tx
Posts: 2,405
In retrospect I would consider myself a 'dry drunk' during several periods of my life. During my early 20s I quit drinking for about 3-4 yrs due to religious reasons and wanting to start a family, when that life didn't satisfy me I returned to heavy drinking; in my late 30s I again quit drinking during my 2nd marriage for a couple years but for no particular reason I just didn't want to drink; when that marriage ended I started drinking again. Each time I went back to drinking I drank heavier than previously. When I had stopped drinking the first 2 times I never even gave it a thought that I had a drinking problem so I never "recovered", so I would say I was a "dry drunk" during those 2 periods of abstinence.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: New England
Posts: 5,285
Originally Posted by getr345
IMO, a somewhat derogatory term, in AA parlance it can be said to mean...
"Any alcoholic who is no longer drinking but quit on his or her terms, not ours"
i.e., a sober person who did not work the 12 Steps.
See also, "One stepper"
"Any alcoholic who is no longer drinking but quit on his or her terms, not ours"
i.e., a sober person who did not work the 12 Steps.
See also, "One stepper"
Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Earth
Posts: 1,249
Dry drunk is not a phrase that I have ever used. I have heard it before. I don't really know the definition, but I am thinking that it means acting stoned or drunk, without the use of drinking alcohol. I'm sure others have told you this already. As a matter of fact they have, I just went back and read some of the posts before me.
The truth shall set you free
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5,267
Unfortunately when many former drinkers go through the grieving process over the loss of their old friend, the bottle, some never get past the anger stage.
It is a very real loss. The drink has been their friend for many years and one they could count on. When the whole world turned against them, the bottle never let them down. It was always there ready for the good times, the celebrations, the parties, as well as the sad, mad, and lonely times, too.
Finally their old friend let them down... they got in trouble with the law, lost a job or career, almost lost their family, or the doctors told them they had to stop drinking... whatever the reason, the circumstances of their life brought them to the point where they made a decision to say "so long" to the bottle. Whether they realized it or not, they began the stages of grieving - denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance - the same stages most people go through when they have a great loss in their lives or have been told they have a terminal illness.
First comes the denial - it's really not that big a deal, I've always said I could quit anytime and then the anger and depression when they realize just how much that had come to depend on their old friend alcohol. Many make it through the process to the final stage - accepting the loss, learning and growing through the experience, and moving on.
Some never make it. It's sad to see them, sometimes many years later, still stuck in their anger, bitterness, and resentment at having to make the change in their lives. They haven't had a drink in years, but they have also never had a "sober" day. You even see them in the 12-step rooms... been in the program for years and years and their lives seem to be a constant unmanageable struggle. All those years and they have no more of a spiritual awakening than they did the first time they walked into the room.
"Dry Drunk" has been described as "A condition of returning to one's old alcoholic thinking and behavior without actually having taken a drink." Or as one wise old drunk put it, if a horse thief goes into A.A. what you can end up with is a sober horse thief. Or a personal favorite: you can take the rum out of the fruit cake, but you've still got a fruit cake! Those who quit drinking but are still angry about it, wind up living miserable lives and usually make everyone else around them miserable too. If it has been said once in an Al-Anon meeting, it has been whispered thousands of times, "I almost wish he/she would go back to drinking."
It is a very real loss. The drink has been their friend for many years and one they could count on. When the whole world turned against them, the bottle never let them down. It was always there ready for the good times, the celebrations, the parties, as well as the sad, mad, and lonely times, too.
Finally their old friend let them down... they got in trouble with the law, lost a job or career, almost lost their family, or the doctors told them they had to stop drinking... whatever the reason, the circumstances of their life brought them to the point where they made a decision to say "so long" to the bottle. Whether they realized it or not, they began the stages of grieving - denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance - the same stages most people go through when they have a great loss in their lives or have been told they have a terminal illness.
First comes the denial - it's really not that big a deal, I've always said I could quit anytime and then the anger and depression when they realize just how much that had come to depend on their old friend alcohol. Many make it through the process to the final stage - accepting the loss, learning and growing through the experience, and moving on.
Some never make it. It's sad to see them, sometimes many years later, still stuck in their anger, bitterness, and resentment at having to make the change in their lives. They haven't had a drink in years, but they have also never had a "sober" day. You even see them in the 12-step rooms... been in the program for years and years and their lives seem to be a constant unmanageable struggle. All those years and they have no more of a spiritual awakening than they did the first time they walked into the room.
"Dry Drunk" has been described as "A condition of returning to one's old alcoholic thinking and behavior without actually having taken a drink." Or as one wise old drunk put it, if a horse thief goes into A.A. what you can end up with is a sober horse thief. Or a personal favorite: you can take the rum out of the fruit cake, but you've still got a fruit cake! Those who quit drinking but are still angry about it, wind up living miserable lives and usually make everyone else around them miserable too. If it has been said once in an Al-Anon meeting, it has been whispered thousands of times, "I almost wish he/she would go back to drinking."
Adventures In SpaceTime
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 5,827
Originally Posted by Timebuster
Some never make it. It's sad to see them, sometimes many years later, still stuck in their anger, bitterness, and resentment at having to make the change in their lives. They haven't had a drink in years, but they have also never had a "sober" day. You even see them in the 12-step rooms... been in the program for years and years and their lives seem to be a constant unmanageable struggle. All those years and they have no more of a spiritual awakening than they did the first time they walked into the room.
"Dry Drunk" has been described as "A condition of returning to one's old alcoholic thinking and behavior without actually having taken a drink." Or as one wise old drunk put it, if a horse thief goes into A.A. what you can end up with is a sober horse thief. Or a personal favorite: you can take the rum out of the fruit cake, but you've still got a fruit cake! Those who quit drinking but are still angry about it, wind up living miserable lives and usually make everyone else around them miserable too. If it has been said once in an Al-Anon meeting, it has been whispered thousands of times, "I almost wish he/she would go back to drinking."
"Dry Drunk" has been described as "A condition of returning to one's old alcoholic thinking and behavior without actually having taken a drink." Or as one wise old drunk put it, if a horse thief goes into A.A. what you can end up with is a sober horse thief. Or a personal favorite: you can take the rum out of the fruit cake, but you've still got a fruit cake! Those who quit drinking but are still angry about it, wind up living miserable lives and usually make everyone else around them miserable too. If it has been said once in an Al-Anon meeting, it has been whispered thousands of times, "I almost wish he/she would go back to drinking."
To each their own. Whatever.
RR
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Bali, Indonesia
Posts: 645
I find it disappointing that threads like this are allowed to continue, when ones like "the orange pages" are closed (which I was very much enjoying reading). I dont see the difference really would someone care to enlighten me?
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If you have a problem with a particular post, Ainslie, you're very welcome to report it.
If you have problem with a particular thread, you can PM me or some other moderator or admin.
We close threads for a variety of reasons - but the decision is never open to a vote
Lets keep on topic.
D
If you have problem with a particular thread, you can PM me or some other moderator or admin.
We close threads for a variety of reasons - but the decision is never open to a vote
Lets keep on topic.
D
Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Germany
Posts: 2,058
I agree with everyone on that I am not a fan of labels and tossed around terms. I live it and know what I am and I don't need anyone else classifying me thank you.
If I were to say dry drunk for me.....then it was the period of time after my 1st go at sobriety. I did start out good, looking at the changes I wanted to make in my life and I saw the negatives associated with drinking. I reached for support.
After a short period of time while I was sober, I stopped the work in recovery. I looked around me and felt depressed. I was still holding anger in from years earlier. I said forget counseling....what does he know. I started creating excuses for my life and stopped being proactive. Basically it was the drunk me minus the booze.
Didn't take much time for me to say I can drink. Why not....Hell I went 2 months without....so what. I wanted to escape and relax and loosen up. That was my thinking. Others are drinking and they are no better then me so screw this.
I then had a few bad things happen and wham I right back at the liquor store drinking at home again and worked my way up to a nasty bender.
If I call myself a dry drunk at that point then it was for continuing the same path with no change and still feeling the self loathing and resentment of others. I was still in a dark pit and I will tell you that right before I relapsed and picked up that I was extremely depressed.
Only when I quit for me and reached out for support and worked my arse off each day am I now enjoying sobriety. I could walk in a pub tomorrow and enjoy a soda with a bunch of drunk folks and be able to walk out completely sober. Not that I personally would want to since drunk folks are just something I prefer not to be around but I am strong in my sobriety and I work it every day and come to SR to get continued support and continue to learn more and more.
Keep it going friends!!
If I were to say dry drunk for me.....then it was the period of time after my 1st go at sobriety. I did start out good, looking at the changes I wanted to make in my life and I saw the negatives associated with drinking. I reached for support.
After a short period of time while I was sober, I stopped the work in recovery. I looked around me and felt depressed. I was still holding anger in from years earlier. I said forget counseling....what does he know. I started creating excuses for my life and stopped being proactive. Basically it was the drunk me minus the booze.
Didn't take much time for me to say I can drink. Why not....Hell I went 2 months without....so what. I wanted to escape and relax and loosen up. That was my thinking. Others are drinking and they are no better then me so screw this.
I then had a few bad things happen and wham I right back at the liquor store drinking at home again and worked my way up to a nasty bender.
If I call myself a dry drunk at that point then it was for continuing the same path with no change and still feeling the self loathing and resentment of others. I was still in a dark pit and I will tell you that right before I relapsed and picked up that I was extremely depressed.
Only when I quit for me and reached out for support and worked my arse off each day am I now enjoying sobriety. I could walk in a pub tomorrow and enjoy a soda with a bunch of drunk folks and be able to walk out completely sober. Not that I personally would want to since drunk folks are just something I prefer not to be around but I am strong in my sobriety and I work it every day and come to SR to get continued support and continue to learn more and more.
Keep it going friends!!
Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Bali, Indonesia
Posts: 645
im just not a fan of labels either, thats all. everyones different, and for those that like the term, and diagnosing everyone around them, perhaps next time you see one of these "dry drunks" you might ask yourself what you could do to help them, instead of being so judgemental....
Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: los angeles, ca
Posts: 1,223
Originally Posted by LaFemme
Thanks Dee!
Maybe I'm too new at this...I think I kind of thought growing as a human and giving up alcohol went hand in hand. I'm actually really surprised anyone could give up alcohol and not change. I mean suddenly its like I feel again, you know?
Maybe I'm too new at this...I think I kind of thought growing as a human and giving up alcohol went hand in hand. I'm actually really surprised anyone could give up alcohol and not change. I mean suddenly its like I feel again, you know?
XO-Beth
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: New England
Posts: 5,285
Hey Ainslie, I am sorry if this thread upsets you, I had no idea what the term meant but saw it around and was confused by it. Having learned about it on this thread I can see now that it is a somewhat uneasy topic. I agree with the people who don't like labels, I don't really care how someone does it, finding sobriety is always admirable in my opinion. To each ones own.
The topic on the orange papers was gone before I joined but what I read on it was interesting and I am surprised it got closed.
The topic on the orange papers was gone before I joined but what I read on it was interesting and I am surprised it got closed.
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