GlassPrisoner

Did you read Grouchos post in your other thread about dual diagnoses ? I think I mentioned something also.

Again, I'd say attack the alcoholism first. Chances are the depression/bo-polar/whatever will lessen or go away with recovery. It did for me, and many like me.

Anyway, I'm sorry you're so closed minded about trying AA. It's not what you think it is. Try the secular forums here, and they'll recomend SMART, LKifeRing and other programs.

As far as powerless. Try this. Buy a 1/2 gallon of your favorite hard liquor, and pour yourself 15 shots. Put them on the counter. Drink two, and only two shots. Leave the rest alone for the remainder of the day and tommorrow.

If your're an alcoholic, there is no choice. There will be no will power. You will drink the rest. Even if you happen to have enough will power to pass this "test" this time, I'll bet you'll be one miserable SOB until you can have that next drink.

Kathryn D

My name is KATHRYN, as in my userID. I am not unhappy with my choices, rather with the state of addiction science in 2007.

Dare I say that at times I think we are just throwaways? That it's still a "moral" deal?

I believe addiction is a brain disease. I don't know how it starts. Some of us are born with lower baselines of a given neurotransmitter, and a chemical gets us feeling normal. That is why psychiatry and addiction science belong together. Not some goofy outdated "let me confess all my sins to you, as I am a defect" 12 step program. Yikes

I pray we all find peace. And if one can find it in a 12 step program, more power to ya!

GlassPrisoner

Carol uses voice recognition software. It probably wrote your name wrong.

You seem pretty darn unhappy to me. I know I was. I HATED life.

Anna

You said earlier that addiction is not a disease. And, then you said that it's a brain disease. Addiction is a disease.

And, your anger is evident.

Kathryn D

Look, if I believed the AA deal, I'd be dead by now. Perhaps you didn't read my post where my first meeting was 30 years ago. For me, it doesn't get worse, it just gets different.

And I have done the "drinking test." In fact, I even did the "Naltrexone" test. It's a drug which is an antagonist in the brain and prevents one from experiencing a euphoria. Guess what? One was enough. My drift is it's biochemical.

I went off another drug, as it made me nauseated. With chemicals, you do NOT want more than one, and I am not talking ANTABUSE. There is a way to alter neurochemistry to sidestep all of this. And it's not a God moral defect deal, it's a CHEMICAL deal. And you don't get euphoric, and it doesn't make you feel all good. It just makes you feel like...what's the sense...just like normal drinker.

But that's not why I'm here. Because the truth is I have bipolar 1 disorder and drinking does mitigate that. Therefore, I need to learn how to manage both, which is why I am looking for a recommendation. I can discuss science till the cows come home, but I still need to tend to my issues.

GlassPrisoner

OK, let's use reason here. Don't you agree that everything you've done wrong in your past, combined with all things that have apparently been done wrong to you, contribute significantly to your ill at ease, and hence your drinking ?

GlassPrisoner

Science may one day accomplish this, but it hasn't done so yet.

Yes, I'm antagonizing you with AA quotes....

Anna

You mean there is an easy way to end addiction?

So, we don't have to work at it every day to stay on the road to recovery?

IO Storm

K....

Hi. Recovering bipolar alkie/addict here. I wasn't diagnosed

with BP until 10/06...well into this year of recovery. Wow.

I relapsed 6 times in the disease of alcoholism and addiction..

that includes a gambling addiction. I am finally finding a

balanced way of living that enables me to stay sober.

Feelings of peace and even happiness creep up on me and

seem to startle me at times.

My best to you!

P.S....

Isn't it weird that most BP meds are actually anticonvulsants?

Love,

:

IO

Kathryn D

Ok, how can I explain this. Addiction is something that happens to a person wherein it wouldn't happen to another person. It's a reaction. For one person, it feels good. To another person, it just makes them sleepy.

Now, if the first person learns that she or he can feel better, they will continue to do the behavior. Over TIME, a dependence can occur, as cellular changes do occur. For person B, they will just find the sleepiness unpleasant. But for person A, it alleviates a lot.

The more time that goes on, the more cellular changes result. Now, at some point all of us realize, gosh, I'm using this to do X, Y or Z. It's not good for me. At that point, many people who have the tools to love themselves might stop.

Or, better yet, I went to a seminar this weekend. For dependent persons (as in not independent -- on others, etc), addiction is a result of this dependence BEFORE breaking through the FEAR of having to become independent, leaving home, etc (and I'm not talking about money or other superficial stuff here).

As far as "anger?" I'm frustrated. Tell me, if it's really a "disease" and through no fault of your own, why does Alcoholics "Anonymous" exist?

Kathryn D

Yes, that is really weird that they are anticonvulsants. I cannot explain why, but no doubt has to do with brain waves or patterns. At any rate, I know I'm more stable.

Love to you too

K

GlassPrisoner

Actually, some drugs, Heroin for example, have been proven to be 100% addicitive after using X amount over Y time.

Alcohol is selectively addictive. And yes, cellular changes do occur in the alcoholics body. We actually adapt to the toxins, and our body relies on the alcohol as a source of energy.

Anna

I understand addiction.

It's a disease.

I needed to look at myself and where I was in my life. I needed to do some serious soul-searching and become completely honest with myself and others. I needed to find balance in my life. I work on that every day and I have peace in my life.

I do understand addiction.

Kathryn D

well, if you are dual diagnosis, you won't be successful in either realm unless you tackle both at once. I see my shrink, I take my meds, I go to my groups. Honestly, I'd be much more successful if there were addiction support groups in my area.

Unfortunately, all there is here is a bunch of people saying they owe the world an apology (not realizing their amends is due to themselves, for poisoning their bodies, first and foremost. It's particularly damaging for women, as by the time most women reach "AA" recovery, they already feel like peices of **** and don't need the added reinforcement. Here is where I recommend Women for Sobriety.) Anyone want any "real" AA history, BTW? It's not what you think.

And yes, we do need to work on our recovery daily, but not with the crap AA dishes out.

Anna

We don't allow bashing of any programs on this message board.

We are all here to support each other.

Kathryn D

Well, if you understand addiction, you realize most people mature out of it by themselves, right? AA offers no more of a recovery rate than spontaneous remission, right? And if you doubt it, I'll offer the stats.

Kathryn D

I'm expressing my opinion. Would you have me banned for free speech, the first amendment?

Of our Constitution ? (in case of those of you who don't know).

Look, I understand the AA defensiveness, but when dealing with an issue such as this, your personal feelings must be relegated to the wayside.

Anna

As I said earlier, I am not an AA person.

You can show all the stats you like, but keep in mind, we do not allow bashing of any programs here.

Anna

This is a privately owned message board and there are rules to follow. Membership is not a right.

Please check them out.

Kathryn D

So... this says SoberRecovery. Does this mean strictly AA or no right to free speech?

Look, I understand if you are threatened, but it's exactly this kind of attitude that prevents addiction science from moving forward.

All I care about is that people are released from chemical addictions. If AA works for you, fine. If science works for you, fine. But we have much to learn. Things are still in their infancy and, as far as I am concerned, there is not room for petty squabbles, only information gathering. With this, some conflict with occur, and it shouldn't result in you invoking some "forum rules."

Do you realize at one time they use to imprison depressed people!?