Anna

We are not supporting any specific programs though many of our members belong to AA/NA.

We support all recovery methods and support each other.

I have already told you twice I am not an AA person.

Kathryn D

Great, I appreciate that. I am just much more on honesty, than forum etiquette or rules or whatever.

And I still have more info to share, so that is a good thing!

Anna

I suggest that you read the rules of this privately owned website:

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ting-tips.html

Kathryn D

Oh My God. I'm here for info and looking for help, not to threaten your ego.

That is why this forum is here, no?

I can argue with the best of 'em, but really have no interest in doing so.

You can throw your forum rules at me all you want.

I came looking for help!

Can anyone recommend to me a program that is non 12 step based and treats dual diagnosis?

Get over it anna. I take it that's not why you're here, right? With almost 9K posts, who clearly has a handle on things?

BP44

I can only pray for an angry closed mind.

Kathryn D

Wow, I still hope you can pray for an educated mind. Again, I seek help without the confines of step programs, and something based on science. Surely, that cannot be anathema to you all. If so, I sure do not belong here.

GlassPrisoner

We're not ganging up on you. We're trying to help a fellow human being in need. We are sharing how we did it, and are grateful to be alive and want to share our recovery with others because (for a lot of us) that is part of our program.

Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated !

Anyway, did you check out the secular connections forum ? Like I said, they use SMART, LifeRing, Secular 12 step, CBT etc.

Kathryn D

Yup, I have checked out everything. I even went to a rehab in my town based on REBT and naltrexone. Only issue is...I took issue with the "counselor" (who had no professional qualifications whatsoever except 11 years of sobriety). He made some derogatory remark towards women and it didn't go over well with me. Needless to say, I contacted the DOH here and then threatened to expose them if I didn't get a refund (they are NOW licensed by the state, and that "counselor" flunked his exam, henceforth he is no longer with that organization. I had nothing to do with his flunking. I just called a spade a spade). Hey, I am not about to support an organization with unqualified people who are not good for women. I don't think I made friends with those people. So SMART is out where I live, as SMART comes through only this center, unless you're in prison, where it is widely prevalent.

So...I'm left with one woman's WFS meeting a week wayyyyyyyyy across town or AA. That is it. I really need f2f and if I were back in the Bay Area, I'd be doing that. SOS is another option, although when I call I just get an answering machine. I do know that maybe a couple of people are interested in starting a meeting here.

At any rate, after five rehabs all AA based, I am ready for state of the art. This is why I thought perhaps a rehab that focused on dual diagnosis might be the ticket for me. Thanks.

IO Storm

K...

I felt we had something in common and I think we do..dual

diagnosis and the disease of addiction. I am an AA member

because the folks there and the principles have saved my

life more than once. After reading all the posts..however,

I am beginning to wonder if you actually a troll? Sorry,

but I do see the traits and characterisitics in all of your posts.

If you are sincere in asking for help, I am truly sorry and would

like to talk some more.

Love,

IO

Kathryn D

No, I am not a troll, however, I am a frustrated person. We need more resources for people for whom 12 step stuff does not work. Where I live, ugh. It's dismal. I almost thought about moving back to the Bay Area just for those "how was your week meetings?" But it's kind of silly to move back to an (albeit super progressive) environment just for this purpose.

The preponderance of posts are 12 step based here. I won't do 12 step. I know there are bunches of people out there as well who feel as I do. What happens to the 95% of people with alcohol issues for whom AA does not work? Maybe I'm in the wrong forum, except this forum actually came up under a search that was not 12 step based.

Guess I was wrong. I do also think it's sad I am possibly called a troll just because I don't fall into line with the same thinking everyone else displays. This is PRECiSELY the reason I cannot do AA.

Oh well, carry on. I'll just do more searches. I don't need it implied I am a troll and it's a waste of my time to keep posting here.

Thanks for your time and good luck!

One more thing..google orange papers for anyone who has the courage to embrace an alternate reality. That will explain everything and why I seek another way to do this deal.

raerae6

Hi, i just ran into this after I saw your other thread. From what you say above it sounds like you might be a good candidate for "health realization". My ex bf went to a treatment center where they practiced this. He had addiction only without mental health issues, but they did treat both at the place he went to. It was run by an organization called meridian. He liked it better than 12 steps. This is not a 12 step program. It is about learning to make different choices.

There is a book about it that I know of called "the serenity principle".
Here is more information.
http://www.answers.com/topic/health-realization

I hope this helps.

GlassPrisoner

That guy is a joke. For example, he argues reason and logic are opposed by AA, and that they are actually good because the Klingons embrace logic.

parentrecovers

just wanted to send thanks and hugs out to 51anna...our fearless forum leader! k

Kathryn D

Thanks a lot. I went to their website and their office is in CA, near where I used to live. Seems like anything new comes out of CA. I can give them a call and ask them for referrals in my area.

I need to do something. I have to keep fighting my addictions. I cannot let them take me out.

I have a great psychiatrist, think I am finally on the right meds, but the drinking and smoking is what is screwing things up. I've had some success at not drinking/smoking (my two biggest concerns), but if something really stressful happens (and I haven't quite been able to get a handle on tools to use), then I revert back to that behavior. If I could just get support from like minded people where I live, I think I could really do this deal.

I also want to thank the other posters for their input. I don't mean to seem unreasonable, but at times things look pretty hopeless. I've bounced in and out of AA for so long. There are some very nice people there, don't get me wrong, but it's just not for me.

Kathryn D

To each his own. I found it very helpful, as it made me feel less alone.

Truthfully, if I could just find an AA group as it would have existed when started, I would go there. Twenty five years ago I did attend AA. Back then, in that state, a popular slogan was take what you need and leave the rest. Somehow it's morphed into a rigid adherance to rituals and conformance.

If I could just walk into a room, just say I'm Kathryn, not be surrounded by people asking me if I have a sponsor and insisting I follow every instruction without question, I could do it. And I have tried to be true to myself, with the inevitable shunning that comes with nonconformance. I had a sponsor once who shamed me for not being willing to read something in front of a group of 100 people in front with a podium. Her comment to me was that there was NO reason for me to have not done that, especially when so and so walked all the way across the room to ask me. I told her I have panic disorder and I'd be addressing this with my shrink. I should not have to defend myself for not wanting to go up in front of 100 people and do something that terrifies me -- reading! This is what I mean and these are the types of fundamental problems I have with AA, JUST FOR ME (emphasis added as I am just speaking from my experience)

So...something less structured that honors my individuality is what I need.

nan07

Hi Kathryn;
Maybe you'd be a good candidate for Rational Recovery. Just google it and there's a "crash course" or "big plan" for quitting drinking...it can also be applied to other things you'd like to quit. Take care.

parentrecovers

it's not hopeless, kathryn. recovery is possible. blessings, k

onthebeam

Kathryn,

It's clear you are frustrated with the options available for recovery. But looking for a scientific solution is not the answer - one doesn't exist. Maybe someday, there will be a pill to stop addictive behaviors, but none exists now. There is no external "fix" available (psychology or otherwise). The only thing that works in the end is our own decision to halt the behavior. One must be honest, open-minded, and willing to do so.

I would encourage you to give 12-step programs another chance. They are the only ones with any respectable long-term success rates. Yes, those rates are only 7-15%, but no other program comes even close to even that. The spirituality aspect, although perhaps intimidating, put-offish, and difficult at first, is in fact the key to what saves so many people (including me).

Seeking or holding out for a "scientific" solution isn't going to help you. That's looking for that "easier, softer way" and it isn't there. This reminds me of the scene in "The Big Lebowski" when the thugs have The Dude's head in the toilet giving him a swirlie asking about some money. He says "I'm sure it's in there somewhere, lemme have another look..." And that's exactly where looking for that easier, softer way gets you.

And I would add that if a pill was introduced tomorrow that freed me of my alcoholic thinking and even allowed me to drink like a normie, I wouldn't take it. AA has not only relieved me of my desire to drink long ago, but more importantly, it teaches me how to honestly live life on life's terms - I love that, and I don't ever plan to stop participating in AA for that simple reason.

I wish you all the best in your journey.

Kathryn D

Yes, indeed I am sooooooo very frustrated. I've been thinking about options this a.m. and might leave here for awhile. One thing I did not mention is I've been involved with someone I believe is abusive. Only problem is...he is my ONLY support in any form here where I live. To complicate things, he works in mental health and so I never know if he is really trying to help me or just mess with me. I have bipolar disorder in addition to alcohol dependence. This makes me always crazy and messed up in his eyes, and I can't argue with him, even though I know he's lied to me and swears his female roommate is just a friend, like a guy. In sixteen months I've never been to his place. I've stopped drinking/smoking and then he's been abusive (name calling and once threw things.) I've tried to let go of this relationship on more than one occasion, but even after a retreat this weekend, wherein I was sure I'd get the strength to do so, I am more confused than ever.

I almost went to abuse counseling and did an intake once. He has access to all this agency info, so I backed out. I was going to go to a DV support group, but he even takes women to DV shelters, so I didn't feel safe. I can't go to another place, as I used to work there and know the people! How can I admit that while I worked there I was in my own sick relationship? I'm at my wits end. So none of my comments are directed at any of you. I simply don't know where to turn.

I have given them a chance, and thank you. I even went to AA when I lived in the XX Area. It was better there, as they were more open minded. They also have another approach to sobriety, that might work better for me, but no meetings here. As a sidenote, I met a wonderful person in AA last year here. He came from the same XX Area with 11 years of sobriety. He only lasted here two months and even after all his sobriety, he said he was starting to look at a drink. He moved back up there and is doing fine. He does go to AA, and likes it there, as the meetings are topic oriented.

Thanks. I attended my first meeting in 1977. I'm not a stupid person and was actually sober for two years, until the psychiatric stuff came into the picture. I have tried and had many sponsors. I have tried different meetings, all with the result I feel like I cannot be true to myself there (except in the xx Area I felt more comfortable). If things don't click after 30 years, one has to look at other options.

BTW, and FWIW, I've taken Naltrexone and for the first time knew what it was like to have just one drink and not want another. It made me sick, however, so I discontinued. Campral is another drug they've come out with, that reduces cravings. I took it for a bit after I was released from Behavioral Health Center in January.

I'm seriously considering going back up there for awhile, if for no other reason to get some perspective on this "relationship" and to possibly find a different way. I guess it's cheaper than 30 or 40K in a one month dual diagnosis program. Maybe I'd even stay there. I don't know. All I know is there has to be an answer that fits me somewhere. That Health Realization place that was mentioned earlier in this thread is in Santa Clara area. Lifering is all over that Area and is an alternative to AA within the Kaiser network (which is a health plan like United Health Care and Pacificare. For folks who do not like AA, that is given as an option in being in their treatment program. It does work for many. There is really no program, per se, but weekly support meetings for those who struggle with these issues. I went to a few and liked them. Since then, it's grown by leaps and bounds. No LifeRing here, however).

I go into so much detail about this stuff, on the off chance someone else feels as I do and could benefit from other resources?

Thanks for letting me ramble on

Kathryn D

oops, self delete