2stop

Just wondering if anyone lives with depression using more cognitive retraining and behavioral changes wothout meds. My husband has said maybe I don't have clinical depression, maybe the drugs for 20 years is what depressed me..I don't know..I have come off the Remeron, it only agitated me more, so I'm glad I don't take that. I have taken almost every anti-depressant in the book and none really worked that well. In a way I am scared of the suicidal depression if I don't take the meds but I also have read many stories where people have been able to lead productive lives with no medication. What are ya alls thoughts on this?

Juls

2Stop,

For me meds have been very beneficial. I take trazodone, and a low dose of paxil. It used to bother me that I might need to be on meds for the rest of my life, but it's true to a certain extent that mental illness can be likened to other illnesses where the need for meds is on-going.

That said, there are people who choose to deal with their mental illnesses without meds. My brother for one. At times he really struggles though, and feels very suicidal. I think, and have said to him, why don't you just get on some meds, it will be alot easier. But it's not his way. Sometimes he feels o.k. and sometimes not. He has to really control his environment though, since he reacts easily to and kind of negative energy. He does alot of mediatation, and spends alot of time at retreat centers.

Each person is different obviously, and you may be able to live your life without them, but if not don't be hard on yourself. Whether the drugs did it, or it was already part of you I don't think matters in terms of how it is treated.

Juls

Lilya

Tammie,
I went through a similar agony over the meds not long ago. I stopped them altogether, thinking I didn´t need them. It was last autumn and I was busy with my film festivals, a new house, new decorations and I had just spent wonderful month in an African island I sometimes go to. I thought to myself: "I´m successful, I don´t need meds! This is rediculous, and I´m stopping right now. I threw them out.

And a funny thing happened. At first it was good and I didn´t notice anything, I was so busy. Then I starting not being able to sleep. I lay in bed till 6 AM with heart irregularities. I got checked, nothing was wrong. I started sweating all the time, so I thought, well, I´m in my forties, I might me menopausal. Had a test on that, a very specific test which tells you if you´re soon on menopause. No way, said the doc, you could have kids right now. Still a long way a way. Then I started crying for no reason. Everything was going so well, but I was dying inside. Then the suicidal thoughts started. I didn´t want to get out of bed, didn´t want to write, go to work or go being around people.

After months of this I gave up. Went to see my shrink. He gave me the meds and told me: "this was good, actually. Now you know what you have and you don´t take those meds just because I said so."

I won´t stop taking them ever. I lost valuable contacts and a valuable friendship during this episode. This is a chemical imbalance and should not be taken lightly.

Cognitive training is a very good idea, and I´m trying that with the help of my therapist. I can understand if you dislike the meds, but don´t do anything hasty.l

My thoughts are with you,
:shades:

2stop

All weekend long I have been thinking about what to do regarding the meds, several things occurred to me, one is I have been on so many meds I really don't think they'll start working now, of course I'm only newly sober and I understand maybe they would work better now, another thing is I am terrified to gain weight on the med, I freak out thinking about it! I know it sounds silly, but I have battled anorexia and bulimia before and I notice myself obsessing more over "the perfect body image" as I become more sober, and I have it in my head that only xanax or valium will help the anxiety and I have been addicteded to them before so on one hand I am ready to take them just to feel better, and on the other hand I am terrified of any more withdrawals....I feel like a moron fro the reasons I have stated seem so vain and selfish, but nevertheless they truly bother me, so I am trying to decide what I should do, I know not doing anything will land me in a heap of trouble. but I seem to land in trouble even when I take them, so I guess I just feel hopeless and frustarted about it. If I had insurance I would get shock treatments I think...I've been in the hospital in TX with people who had them and they seemed alright afterwards. I'm just trying to think of everything and anything. What do ya all know about acupuncture helping? I am going to call a few places this week I think that do it, mainly I became interested in acupuncture for some physical pain I am in, but have heard it may also help depression and anxiety. I'm to the point I'd swim laps up and down the Nile River if I was told it would help.:p

Lilya

Dear Tammie,

I know what you mean when you talk about anorexia and bulimia in connection with those meds. I posted an answer in the Food disorder forum tonight about negative remarks about body image. Please read it, then you see what I mean. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, as the handsome man clearly showed when he gave the heavy woman all the compliments.

I think this skinnyness today is not healthy and it´s certainly not beautiful. Its the sign of the times. Also, I see interviews of the fashion kings who rule women´s look and body image on Paris TV all the time. Don´t misunderstand me, I think most of them are great artists. But they like androgyne women, boyish women with no curves. Do we want to be governed by a handful of men who all have the same taste?

Regarding the meds, sometimes you have to change brands for them to be fully effective. Talk it over with your doc. Sometimes the meds we´ve been on for years stop to be effective and then it´s time to change. My brother is a doctor and explained this to me.

Get a couple of these Bergman movies and I bet you´ll feel different.

My thoughts are with you. Let me know how you feel.

Kisses, as we say in France.

2stop

I have never wanted to look super thin, but I did have a definite idea of how I should look, I am 5'8" and don't like to get over 135-140lbs~ I panic bigtime, the last few months I have gained and it is driving me nutty..luckily the SSRI's(like Prozac, zoloft) don't usually cause weight gain, but they are also the least effective, but I used narcotics so long as an anti-everything I really must give myself a break, I think. I get a little freaked at times..but several months ago in a dream I somehow "instinctively" knew I would be well in a year, not like cured you know, but functioning, I have learned to always follow my gut instincts and "dreams' so many have happened, some really big~it was spooky. My friends have flipped out before when I told them I dreamed something was going to happen..and it did, maybe I am mental..but it has happened consistently for many years now.

pjacats

I appreciate your question. I've been wondering the same thing. I have been sober for 18 months and changed to a sponsorship family about six months ago that doesn't believe in medications. So I've been slowly tapering off all my anti-depressants over the past three months. I have about three weeks left and I'll be off all of them. Unfortunately, for the past week or so, all I think about is suicide. It consumes my thoughts all the time. I don't know what to do. How can I tell if I'm just being a drama queen or if I'm really going to do it? I don't trust any of my thoughts right now. My sponsor doesn't have any experience with depression so she told me to call a girl who had experienced depression and had done so without meds. This girl had never even thought about suicide! How could she help? I can't even fathom being depressed without thinking about suicide.

I'm sorry I'm being very long winded. I don't know what to do with myself. I'm trying the 24 hour a day thing to put off suicide. I'm just trying it one day at a time. Maybe it will pass. I'd really appreciate any and all input. I feel alone and scared.

Juls

pjacats,

If you are starting to feel suicidal coming off your meds, than I think you need to tell your Dr. about it. I can appreciate that some feel there should be no meds, however mental illness is like any other illness. If you were a diabetic you would take your insulin.

You are not being a drama queen, there is nothing in your post to suggest that is in your nature.

I have struggled many times in my life with feeling suicidal, and it is not a good place to be, and I'm so very glad that I never did it. Otherwise I would not be enjoying my life as I am today.

Congratulations on your 18 months of sobriety, those are 18 months of miracles, and you do not deserve to suffer from those feelings when help is available.

The people that do do it without meds I think still need alot of therapy, or someone that is available for them to talk to.

Please keep in touch to let us know how your feeling. I'm glad you found this forum, and I look forward to hearing more from you.

Juls

pjacats

I just wanted to kind of post an update. I woke up this morning and just knew I had reached a turning point. I had to decide what to do. I could stay with my current sponsor, get off meds and continue the depression/suicidal thoughts cycle or change sponsors. I decided to change sponsors. I went to my home group and asked a friend who he thought I should talk to that might be more open to medication and depression. He recommended someone and let me know what meeting she went to. I went to that meeting and she was there (she hadn't been to that meeting in weeks). The topic (which I didn't bring up) was on depression and medication. I have never heard that in a meeting before. It was a major God thing. It was funny, even my sponsee who was in the meeting couldn't believe the "coincidences". I talked to the woman my friend recommended and asked her to sponsor me which she will.

I feel so awe struck by this day. I don't think I've ever had so many little miracles in one day. It's like God doesn't give hints, he sends me a billboard.

Anyway, thanks for letting me post my thoughts.

Juls

pjacats

I'm really happy to hear about what happened. I do not want to speak ill of anyone in recovery, but I could not be a part of a group that anti-medication for things like mental illness. Not as a judgment thing, but because I do need them.

Good luck with your new sponsor, and keep us posted as to how you are doing.

Juls

2stop

pjacats-So happy to hear things worked out for ya....

Mamabear

Tammie,

First of all, you are not a "moron." Reread your own posts. You are loving and kind. I know I have benefitted so much from your support.
And your dreams and intuition are invaluable. Trust that voice.
The tricky thing about meds is they can stop working. I was doing so well with Paxil. Then I got flat, gained weight, and my libido was non-existant. I'm trying a low does of Wellbutrin. It's got a so so effect for me. But I got new thyroid medicine today and that may help a lot.
Keep trying. There are new non-addictive meds out each day. And your body is different now....it will process things differently because you are sober. Advocate for yourself as you would for your children.
(((((((love))))))))
Mamabear

2stop

Thanks Mamabear..you know what? Years ago I asked a doc to check my thyroid, he him-hawed around..told me it was borderline..not to worry about it!! I am going to make an appt to have it checked again..it could be a lot of my troubles, that and my hormones gone wacky from the hysterectomy 5-6 years ago. Then I will know better if an antidepressant will help, heck I may not need an antidepressant if it's my thyroid...

And yes I know I have to work on my positive self-talk..I can beat myself down real bad..
Love ya Mamabear!!!!!
(How's that daughter of yours doing?

HardHead

Have To say. While newly sober be careful, Speak to professionals and say "you are new and sober"
I've been sober a lot of years, But since diagnosed, Been going through lots of changes.
Never needed meds to put one foot in front of the other, Now I just have to work a bit harder than others I think, As they say This too shall pass.
later, Good luck

Mamabear

Good morning my dear 2stop,

My daughter is healing well from the horse accident. Yesterday there was a noticable difference in the swelling. However, when it rains it pours and she has a torn miniscus in her knee. This is her senior sports season so she is panic stricken that she may not play. I'm more worried about long range walking/ running. We have an appt next week to see if and when she'll need surgery. Thanks for asking.
I'm really glad to hear that you're going to get your thyroid checked. Hypothyroidism can cause depression, joint pain, cold and/or hot flashes, weight problems and more. If you're borderline (or even under now) it's worth treating. I feel well in so many ways when my numbers are midrange. Good luck w/ this and your hormone level.
Isn't it uncanny how complex a woman's body is?

(((((Mamabear)))))

Gooch

Every once in a while I think that maybe I'm trying this the hardway.. ( without meds ) then I make a gigantic stride forward. I've posted about this before.. I went from bronco riding the pink cloud (b when I first got clean) to feeling like there was no reason to get out of bed (between 4 and 7 years clean) ** during that period I barely functioned but stayed clean, held a job, and managed minimal housekeeping stuff. At 2 points I doublechecked with docs and diagnosed once for ADD went on ritalin for 6 mos. I used the med as a tool to help me identify my behaviours so I could monitor myself when I stopped taking them later. It worked pretty good. The 2nd diagnosis is aseasonal affective depression/disorder.. I needed a spring treatment of Prozac to help me recognize the pattern and change it. I chose not to continue on the prozac because it minimized my ability to feel my feelings. I reserve the right to seek treatment and a mood elevator if and when I experience a seasonal swing that lays me low. So far I have held it together 4 years running after the treatment. I have 12 and a half yrs now through the Boss's grace, the program, and the fellowship.
My worse days now seem to be 24 hrs at most. I've been able to see my mood swings turn through prayer, the steps, literature, and reaching out to others in as little as 3 hrs.

Juls

Gooch,

That is really good that you have had the insight to see what your behaviors are, use help when you need it, and help yourself when you are able.

Not all people need to be on meds full time or stay on meds. Sometimes a short course is all that is needed.

Juls

Gooch

I got my insight from listening to decades of experience of recovery from addiction/alcoholism through the 12 step programs.

They told me if i worked the steps, and practiced the principles, I could get off, stay off, and learn how to cope without dope.

I struggle not with the medical communities haste to diagnose us all "chemically imbalanced", (of course we are, we've been ingesting chemicals haven't we?) but their haste to treat every newcomer for that diagnosis. I cannot count the number of horror stories I keep hearing at meetings from addicts struggling to get clean under the duress of multiple diagnosis's and combinational drug cocktails. I'm seeing kids under 20 years old that are taking handfuls of meds every day, because they wandered into a detox or treatment center seeking the relief that Bill W found so many years ago. I realize that there are cases that warrant meds. I'm just astonished that the tC's feel 95% or more of their intakes should be on them.

sorry if my perspective sounds a little harsh ... i see too may people that can't work the steps because they are deluded into thinking that a pill is gonna do it for them.

2stop

I feela as you do Gooch, doctors want to give a pill for everything! Yes, some clearly need medication..but I don't think every one does. My chemicals are gonna be haywire for a while, I made them that way from years of abuse..my body needs time to heal not fed any more than is absolutely necessary....but on the other hand meds have truly saved lives..I've seen it. I'm going to continue without them but if have any symtoms like strong suicidal feelings I will see a doctor..but truthfully I have been on meds that increased the suicidal emotional state...it gets frustrating as hell, but I am working the 12 steps and I pray every day for my HP to do with me as he will...I still butt in with "my" way but am slowly learning the true comfort of Let Go and Let God...It's an awesome power!!~

Gooch

I definately don't ever want to hear that someone preferred taking their life to taking a prescribed med.

An important recognition for me was when I heard a speaker at a meeting say that they were't suicidal, they just felt like they didn't want to go on. I stopped the next time I was very depressed and asked myself some questions, Did I really want to die? Had I looked at methods for ending my life? or was it that I was just tired of facing life, going to work, doing dishes, and all that day to day stuff taht I felt like I couldn't cope with. Most of the time, those feelings I was having were based in being tired, feeling like i didn't "measure up", or someone else had hurt me, etc. I started to look at my inability to accept myself and my responsibilities. The soonerI gave myself permission to just feel my feelings exactly as they were, the sooner I accepted myself where I was, regardless of what others might think, the sooner the misery and fear would pass and some other feeling would take their place.
I dunno if this helps anyone else, but its part of my process and I'm grateful for those that shared their experience with me.