Shifting the blame

Old 09-02-2019, 04:47 PM
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By a certain way I mean no drugs or lying or stealing money.

those aren't exactly high water marks that someone would have to strive for. those are bare minimums...no, those are non-starters. one should not have to ASK these of their chosen partner.

for him it's ok to do these things.....to lie TO you, to steal FROM you, to put drug use as a higher priority. and if you keep backing down and giving him more "chances" you are in effect telling him it's ok to treat you this way.

so i ask you.......is it?
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Old 09-02-2019, 04:49 PM
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I have gone through the same thing for years. I only recently discovered that it’s ME that I need to focus on. Stop looking for drugs. Stop looking for alcohol. Stop trying to catch him in lies. All you will get is denial and lies and manipulation. I still struggle with these things every day but I have realized I am SOOOO happy on days that I don’t do this. I don’t stress. I don’t worry. Because on those days, I am only focused on me (and our children of course). Today after my AH was 2 weeks sober, I saw a bottle of vodka in the front seat of his vehicle. I immediately felt sick and angry. Of course his actions are the cause, but had I not looked in there I wouldn’t feel that way. So I am learning...slowly...that we can only control what WE do. Not them.
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Old 09-02-2019, 05:07 PM
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I don't know if this has already been said to you but it's often said here

He doesn't have a problem with his drug taking, you do.

I think that can be hard to accept, because if you aren't an addict it makes no sense! Who abandons all around them for some pills, a high, drinks?

Makes no sense to us. Makes perfect sense to an addict.

So from his perspective, you may well be a controlling so and so. Now, you, on the other hand, think, well it's not ok to be a drug addict! I didn't sign up for this, who in their right mind would think this is ok.

He's not in his "right" mind, his mind is that of an addict.

Nothing you can say or do will change that. He is obviously well in to this.

"For in the case of the delusional schizophrenic most people are quickly aware that they are dealing with someone not in their right mind - but in the case of the equally or at times even more insane addict, thinking that is in fact delusional may be and commonly is misattributed to potentially remediable voluntary choices and moral decisions, resulting in still more confusion and muddying of the already turbulent waters around the addict and his addiction.

In many cases the addict responds to negative feedback from others about his addiction by following the maxim of "Attack the attacker." Those who confront or complain about the addict's irrational and unhealthy behaviors are criticized, analyzed and dismissed by the addict as untrustworthy or biased observers and false messengers".

So to him YOU are in the wrong, you are the false messenger, the drama queen the one over-reacting.

It's his reality. No, doesn't make sense to you, but it certainly does to him.
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Old 09-02-2019, 05:26 PM
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So what do you do? I have ignored the problem and quit looking in the past. I only looked last week because he was being really weird. So do I just have him leave? I get it that I am the one who has a problem with him taking and buying pills. But I can't continue to financially take care of him.
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Old 09-02-2019, 05:46 PM
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That is 100 percent your call. You have stated what you want, he is unwilling to do that.

So that is your choice now (always has been). You either live with this or you get out.

If you stay, you will really need to detach though you know? Otherwise you will just keep getting hurt over and over again. Your expectations of him being in recovery should be nil - because he has shown that to be his intent, correct?

The choice is your. Stay in this (and that is so destructive for you) or make your plan to get out as soon as possible.
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Old 09-02-2019, 07:10 PM
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After having time to think while I was driving this evening, I think I understand it a little more. He does not think he has a problem, although that doesn't mean it isn't a problem. But, because he doesn't see it as a problem, then there is really no reason to try to reason with him. ??

That's where I get stuck because I want him to understand why I'm hurting and why I can't trust him.

I do think he realizes he has lied to me. Whether or not he sees that as an issue, I don't know.

He keeps pressing the issue of getting a counselor. Says we need to have a counselor because he needs someone on his side; that he has nobody to back him up, and I don' t listen to him. But, if we go to a counselor, he needs to pay. And if he is paying for that, then he sure as heck isn't going to have any more money to contribute to bills than he currently has, which is already the problem. It is just a circle, isn't it.

My problem is that I feel guilt. I feel bad. I know he has nobody else but me. I know that shouldn't be my problem, but I did marry him, and I do want him to be happy and to be successful in life. I want us to be happy and be successful in life. But I don't know how to live with a liar.

The one thing I focused on today was that he can't be transparent with his finances. He said that I should be transparent with my computer and Facebook account. I didn't realize he thought that was a problem. If he wants to look at my Facebook, all he has to do is ask. I asked him what he thought he would find, and he said nothing, just that he thinks it is the same. That if I password protect my things, then that is the same as him not showing me his bank statements. However, I have given him no reason to not trust me. Although, it seems like he has come up with something in his head that I am supposedly hiding from him online.

I know nobody here can give me the answers; I know that is up to me to decide. Just know that it helps me a lot just to get my thoughts out and know that someone hears me. I've been going back and forth all afternoon/evening thinking "who can I talk to?" I don't really want to tell anyone about all this because it is our personal life, and they are his friends too. If we are able to work things out, I don't want people to think badly of him. But, I guess that would be me protecting him again? I don't know.

I need to find a counselor I can talk to that doesn't cost me an arm and a leg. Someone I can talk to soon because this is all driving me insane.
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Old 09-03-2019, 02:44 AM
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But, because he doesn't see it as a problem, then there is really no reason to try to reason with him. ??

No, not because he doesn't think he has a problem... because he's delusional, there is no reasoning with him. The only way to live with an addict is to think it's OKAY for the addict to drink or drug. If you are okay with it, you can keep living with them. If you are okay with the financial aspect of their drinking and drugging, you can live with them. If you are okay with them not being reliable or responsible... I mean you really have to okay with it, it is possible to live with them and NOT be hurt. Only if you are okay with it.

That's where I get stuck because I want him to understand why I'm hurting and why I can't trust him.

He doesn't care that you are hurting and you can't trust him. Sorry BUT... his #1 priority is his next fix. So that's the only thing he care about, really. If you are also providing a cushy place for him to drink/drug and money for him to do it, he cares about that.

I do think he realizes he has lied to me. Whether or not he sees that as an issue, I don't know.

Of course he knows he has lied to you. It's pretty obvious that he doesn't see it as an issue. His #1 priority is his next fix. If he has to lie to you to get it, it is totally justified. You're expecting this guy to be "normal" on some level. He's not. He's only "normal" for an active addict.

He keeps pressing the issue of getting a counselor. Says we need to have a counselor because he needs someone on his side; that he has nobody to back him up, and I don' t listen to him. But, if we go to a counselor, he needs to pay.

Sorry but money is not the issue here. He needs someone on his side. Re-read that: he needs someone on his side. So you'll go into session and he hopes that it will be the counselor and him against you. Two against one. He wants another person to tell SmartRose that she's controlling... and this will make SmartRose erode her boundaries more. The reason that he wants counseling is because he thinks he is losing control of YOU. You are currently enabling him. By needing him to stop, you are threatening to take away his enabler. He wants to keep the relationship going exactly the way it has been... by getting a counselor to see the "error of your ways". Sorry but no. The only mistake you made is being loyal to him for as long as you have -- unless you're okay with his drink/drug choices, then it's not a mistake.

And if he is paying for that, then he sure as heck isn't going to have any more money to contribute to bills than he currently has, which is already the problem. It is just a circle, isn't it.
It's not a circle. He will NOT contribute to bills. He will NOT pay for counseling. You will pay for everything financially until you run out... and then you will pay with your health. Read this about paying with your health (I didn’t believe it was possible...).

My problem is that I feel guilt. I feel bad. I know he has nobody else but me. I know that shouldn't be my problem, but I did marry him, and I do want him to be happy and to be successful in life. I want us to be happy and be successful in life. But I don't know how to live with a liar.

You should not have to figure out how to live with a liar. Also, marriage has conditions. Faithfulness, loyalty, respect... etc. I'm pretty sure he's broken the conditions of your marriage through and through. And if you say, "well, he's been faithful," umm... no he has not. He is cheating on you with his drug of choice. His next fix is more important than you. Your problem is not guilt. Your problem is he is making you feel guilty. HIS problem should be guilt. It's not though. It's you.

The one thing I focused on today was that he can't be transparent with his finances. He said that I should be transparent with my computer and Facebook account. I didn't realize he thought that was a problem. If he wants to look at my Facebook, all he has to do is ask.

This is more gaslighting and "I'm not the problem, you are." Stop. Talking. To. Him. He is no longer a sane participant in your relationship. Please DO NOT be transparent with your computer and Facebook account. Why exactly does he need to know those things? What is he up to. No. Just no.


That if I password protect my things, then that is the same as him not showing me his bank statements. However, I have given him no reason to not trust me. Although, it seems like he has come up with something in his head that I am supposedly hiding from him online.


You want a junkie to get your passwords? No. No no no. It doesn't matter that you married this guy. He should NOT have your passwords.

I don't really want to tell anyone about all this because it is our personal life, and they are his friends too. If we are able to work things out, I don't want people to think badly of him. But, I guess that would be me protecting him again? I don't know.

Stop protecting him and his addiction. If you stop protecting him, you might get the support he needs. His friends may even try to organise an intervention if they care about him. You need support.

I need to find a counselor I can talk to that doesn't cost me an arm and a leg. Someone I can talk to soon because this is all driving me insane.

You can get support IRL at Naranon or Alanon. Please go. This is for you not for him. Support for you is important now. He does not want support to stop drinking or drugging, he only wants supports to "take his side" against you. That's not relationship counseling, that's war.
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Old 09-03-2019, 04:23 AM
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He does not think he has a problem, although that doesn't mean it isn't a problem. But, because he doesn't see it as a problem, then there is really no reason to try to reason with him. ??
Well he might have moments of thinking - it's not great that I'm a drug addict. I mean it's everywhere right, very difficult to find any REAL data that says - take opiates, especially now with it being so prevalent.

You can be an addict and know it's not good for you and still continue to be an addict.

So even if he acknowledges this in his head, to him that's HIS problem and HIS issue and what he wants to do anyway (although it might seem insane to you). So who are you to stick your nose and controlling ways in it (as in, what he may think).

There are the drugs, there is you standing in the middle and then there is him.

You are the enemy. He wants his drugs. The minute you tried to come between him and his drugs you became that enemy.

That's where I get stuck because I want him to understand why I'm hurting and why I can't trust him.
You're wasting your time. All the talk of counselors and facebook passwords and all of that is just so much "quacking". It's deflection and not even worth your concern or a second thought. He's just making this stuff up to move away from the real issue.

It's akin to him starting a fire in your garage and him discussing why you spent $50.00 on a steak this week when you are trying to discuss with him about him not paying his share. One has nothing to do with the other and hey, maybe you should be discussing the garage being on fire? But no, you are sitting in the living room while he questions your spending habits. Are you a poor money manager? Is he right, should you try to keep costs down and support him MORE because isn't he really the injured party here?

In the meantime the garage fire starts to burn down the entire wall of the house, but you two are in deep discussion about your appalling habit of buying expensive steak.

Doesn't that sound insane?

That's because it is. It sounds ridiculous, but it is exactly where he is leading you. He knows you are hurt, you told him, he knows you can't trust him, you told him. Actions not words, what is he prepared to do about that? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. Why, because he is busy getting high, that is his number one priority.

You have no reason to feel guilty and that guilt is what is going to keep you right where you are. Supporting a drug addict until you have nothing left, not your self-esteem, not your confidence and not your money.

Eventually, as he wears you down you will detach whether you want to or not, that's self-preservation. Learning to detach now is just speeding up that process so you don't get to the point where you are completely lacking in self-esteem, confidence and money and you are looking around wondering how the house burned down when you were trying so hard.

Perhaps at this point you need to be thinking about a plan B and getting out of there.
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Old 09-03-2019, 07:05 AM
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^ I think oftentimes it comes down to at what point do the self preservation instincts kick in. Things might not get better, but they can always get worse.

Are you familiar with Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs? The basic needs are at the bottom of the pyramid (food, water, shelter), then safety, then the social things (friendship, belonging), ego (self esteem, recognition), the self actualization-last.

It’s pretty much impossible to have a good relationship, and a happy successful life, when addiction is poisoning and infesting the bottom of the pyramid, and you’re being screwed financially, and basically not safe because he’s bringing lord know what into the house, and acting like a manipulative snake.

As much as this stinks, best to deal with the guy you have (and not the guy you want, or wish you had). Might not be a bad idea, as mentioned earlier in the thread, to keep your cards close and not show him your hand, anything he has on you (including your sympathies or guilt) will just be used against you. It’s just the nature of the beast, unfortunately.
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Old 09-04-2019, 02:44 PM
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Thank you all for being here.
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Old 09-04-2019, 03:10 PM
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By the way, do not take that personally, it has nothing to do with you. You are not expecting too much, you are not too sensitive or too demanding - you are just in the way of the drugs.
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Old 09-04-2019, 03:22 PM
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masterful metaphor!!!!!
It's akin to him starting a fire in your garage and him discussing why you spent $50.00 on a steak this week when you are trying to discuss with him about him not paying his share. One has nothing to do with the other and hey, maybe you should be discussing the garage being on fire? But no, you are sitting in the living room while he questions your spending habits. Are you a poor money manager? Is he right, should you try to keep costs down and support him MORE because isn't he really the injured party here?

In the meantime the garage fire starts to burn down the entire wall of the house, but you two are in deep discussion about your appalling habit of buying expensive steak.

Doesn't that sound insane?

That's because it is. It sounds ridiculous, but it is exactly where he is leading you. He knows you are hurt, you told him, he knows you can't trust him, you told him. Actions not words, what is he prepared to do about that? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. Why, because he is busy getting high, that is his number one priority.
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Old 09-04-2019, 03:30 PM
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I know he has nobody else but me

I don't really want to tell anyone about all this because it is our personal life, and they are his friends too. If we are able to work things out, I don't want people to think badly of him.

so which is it? are you truly THE only person on this entire planet that he has in his life? nobody else? complete island unto himself. just you.....if that were so, he sure doesn't show much gratitude for his one and only human contact.

but it's not true. you are not his life source. you are not the wall to his roof. he HAS friends. i assume he came from a family of humans, didn't just walk out of the woods one day?? you said he said the pills were for his BROTHER.

this is the lie we tell ourselves. WE are all they have. WE are that important. without US they will simple dissolve into molecules. when in fact he's doing just fine manuevering around you - spending his money as he sees fit, lying as needed, attacking when needed, doing drugs as needed and god knows what else.

i hope you start to see things with a bit more objectivity. he is not interested in fixing The Problem. he is interested in getting you to get off his back about crap and let him be a drug addict in peace.
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Old 09-04-2019, 03:40 PM
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Addicts are experts at blame shifting. They know our instinct is to care for them, just as any normal husband and wife would care for each other. So they attack us with stuff they say hurts them. We start thinking that maybe we're the cause of some of the issues in the marriage. The person I'm still married to throws all sorts of stuff in my face that I did when I was still drinking. I've been sober over 5.5 years now. He's lucky if he draws a drug free breath in a day. Anything to get away from the truth of his use. I've learned to not engage. Never ask an active addict a "why" question. It only gives them space to lie some more. I learned the hard way not to engage with my husband because I was always always the one who got hurt. My husband wanted counseling too. I said no because I didn't see the point in going with someone who can't be honest.

Talking to addicts is crazy making. Nothing makes sense. They don't see things the way I see them. Your husband knows he's lying. He knows you're hurting. The sick part of codependency is that we seek approval and reassurance from the very person who is causing us pain. I'd look into nar anon or al anon. You're doing great writing here and putting your thoughts down. Try keeping a journal.
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Old 09-05-2019, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by AnvilheadII View Post
I know he has nobody else but me

I don't really want to tell anyone about all this because it is our personal life, and they are his friends too. If we are able to work things out, I don't want people to think badly of him.

so which is it? are you truly THE only person on this entire planet that he has in his life? nobody else? complete island unto himself. just you.....if that were so, he sure doesn't show much gratitude for his one and only human contact.

but it's not true. you are not his life source. you are not the wall to his roof. he HAS friends. i assume he came from a family of humans, didn't just walk out of the woods one day?? you said he said the pills were for his BROTHER.

this is the lie we tell ourselves. WE are all they have. WE are that important. without US they will simple dissolve into molecules. when in fact he's doing just fine manuevering around you - spending his money as he sees fit, lying as needed, attacking when needed, doing drugs as needed and god knows what else.
This is what I learned -
I had an overinflated sense of my own importance in my brother's life. I thought I was the only one that could or would help him. I tried to play God. I learned I had to get out of his way and that I had to get better myself.

I still struggle with these feelings, but today I am much healthier.

Your husband will take you down with him if you allow it. Allowing it isn't helpful to him.

Edited because I remembered that I posted here about how I had been thinking of myself and his addiction - wow - in 2013.

https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...ou-suffer.html ("The More you Suffer...)
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