branbran

I have a friend who has been addicted to meth for a long time. I'm not sure when it started. We experimented in high school. I tried meth, coke, and heroine each a few times, and never saw the point. I looked at the end result in long term users, and realized it was just not my thing. She liked to a bit too much.

I know she was first smoking it at age 14, but it didn't seem to be a regular occurrence until we parted ways in our early 20's or so. I think maybe she had sessions here and there with different social groups that our group didn't hang around. Perhaps she was tweaking until fried, then would hang around us and smoke pot and recover. I'm just not sure, but looking at what has been told to me over the years, it seems she had darker sides that I wasn't aware of at the time.

Anyhoo, my thing was just getting a buzz from alcohol or pot, and I ended up going through a realization that it just wasn't for me in the last few years. I'm now sober since new years, no therapy, or anything besides just realizing it's not in me anymore to do it. You can consider me an addict in denial if you like. All good.

I've seen true denial, though. She's had it many times in the past. We had a falling out seven years ago. She told me she needed a sober buddy (I was still toking, but she was concerned with the METH, which I hadn't touched since high school) and decent guy friend. Told her I was there for her, but wouldn't enable her in any way. Ended up lasting maybe a couple of months, before the lies started to become really obvious, and I intuited she was using, would call her out, and the manipulations just got insane. So I ended up going berserk on her, trying to get her to admit fault, and come clean. It wasn't gonna happen. Never did.

Only woman I ever went nuts over, and it lasted a long time, unfortunately. I wrote her how much I cared, how hurt I was for all the lies, and on and on. Finally focused my energies on healthy relationships, and found the courage to let her go. Two and a half years ago, it was new years even going into 2012, and I found her on FB. Decided to give it one last go, basically wished her well, told her I was sorry for turning into a madman, and said all good if she never wanted to reply again. She finally did. After countless previous attempts, she finally replied.

It sounded good. Too good, I should have known. She said she was well, and wanted to see me if I'd see her.. I should have took that as a red flag. I picked her up in what I now recognize must have been a condemned house. The door had wood nailed over it... maybe tweakers didn't want the cops busting in, I dunno, but it was definitely a tweakers pad. She was beyond rail thin, incredibly energetic, and I knew instantly that she was slammin, and out of her mind.

I really needed the experience, however hard it was to bare, and I tried to hide my disappointment and pain from seeing her essentially in the process of killing herself. I bought her food, which she surprisingly got half the meal down. She informed me that she was going to prison, because she got popped, and screwed up probation, and was basically on the run from what was either a warrant, else would be soon. I'm wanting to logically examine her thought processes along with her, but keep it internally, as I'm not seeing the point in her current state. Instead, I offer her something which I think will stick. I tell her the most important thing is to come out of prison and make new contacts, and contact me or someone else who is sober and completely ditch the meth heads. I tell her she will remember this, because she will remember the food I bought her, the experience with me, etc, etc... I do well to imprint the memory.

She's telling me things that day, about how she'll screw anyone, and basically just has sex all day and shoots, and that's it.. all with a smile on her face. I'm noticing she wants me to go into the bedroom with her, but it's not happening. Just not happening. She says she knows I have "borderline" personality disorder.... essentially that's the lie she told herself to keep from feeling so bad for how she mistreated me. She can't handle that she had a responsibility to me, and that she was at least partially to blame for my madness. I ultimately take responsibility for my reactions, but damned if I don't still feel bitter sometimes when thinking about it all.

I'm listening to this all, and just thinking, "OMG this poor lost soul". She has no clue how thoroughly conditioned she's been into essentially becoming a sextoy for people who either started out with personality disorders like psychopathy/narcissism, else developed it out of the usage and scene. It's just nuts. I drop her off, and she writes back the next day saying she wants to see me again before she is off to prison. I just don't think it's a good idea, and I don't respond. I've been out my mind trying to get in touch with her for years, finally have a day with her, and am now wondering if I'll ever see her again, and if I even want to :/

Her father threw away my contact information as she was going in to prison, so I didn't hear from her the whole time. She got out, into the halfway house, and found me online, and we reconnected. I was so happy for her, and she told me she had something for me to read, because she had something important to talk to me about in person. Guess what book it was? I shudder at even mentioning it.... 50 shades of grey. No clue what it was at the time. This was like Feb or March 2013. I read chunks of it, but couldn't possibly be bothered to finish it. I knew what she wanted to talk about, and it made me uncomfortable.

So I picked her up after a few weeks from halfway house, we went back to my apartment, and this time, I decided a little intimacy might be appropriate considering she seemed to be doing much better, and was sober for a half year now. Didn't take long, before she was mentioning the book. Said I was her gray, and she thought I would make a good top for her. Said she needed to be controlled in bed, and thought we could made a good team like that. Keep in mind, this is right after she told me she found out she had hep-c... yea, no. So I went from softly touching and talking about whatever, to ... just staring at the ceiling, saying maybe to this, but really thinking I just couldn't do it. Not that I can't get kinky, it was everything else... it just was so unprofessional, and not a good idea on so many levels. She was obviously still not thinking well after a full half year sober.

Only time I saw her in the halfway house. She went home to her fathers place where her second child was, and at some point started using again. She told me her father wouldn't allow me back in her life, and he was holding all the cards, so she would have to occasionally sneak away with me, or something. It never really happened, and I began to suspect she was using again, and lying to me yet again in order to keep it going. I went through 6 months of being very concerned, before finally getting the word from her that she had screwed up probation yet again, failed UA, and was heading back to prison. She had gone on a 3 week binge, caught syphilis this round, and was severely ill.

I saw her in prison. Quite the drive for me, but I didn't care. I kept trying to be her friend. The second time I saw her, she seemed a bit psycho. Was telling me how she needed the rush from stealing from people, stealing cars, and was going to be a lifer for shooting. I left that place with the intention of never speaking to her again. Everytime I got her back to talk, she came at me with more and more messed up stuff. It was just too freaking much, and after all the consequences, she was still in a state of arrogance talking about how she's top shiz for being such a crackhead, or something. I wrote her once more via Jpay, and ceased communications for 3 solid months.

My mom had been hiding the letters that were coming in after I said I didn't want anything to do with her. I found them 3 months later, and opened them. She sounded really sweet, said I was her best friend, that she'd always have a place in her heart for me, that I was someone who touched her soul, and such. Yep, I'm a sucker. It built up in me for a few days, and I wrote back. A week later she's writing me saying she's doing very good, and going to get out in a few weeks. Says she's really going to give sobriety a go, and never wants to be back there.

I bite. She's now in halfway house second round. I'm getting that she's essentially not sure. She's happy to be alive, out, and with people who understand (other addicts in recovery process), and that I'm still there for her. Everyone else who was decent left long ago. I'm the only one left. I really want to build up trust and a relationship with her. TBH, I'd marry her if she could prove to stay clean a couple years. I love this woman for who she is in spite of her many weaknesses. She's just an amazing human being deep down, beyond all that's come to be from using. It's still in her, I still perceive it, it's just going to take a long, long time, if it happens at all.

What do I do at this point? She's going to be in court mandated outpatient therapy for a half year or so after she gets out of the halfway house. She says it doesn't matter anymore what her father thinks, she'll find a way to keep in contact with me, and move out of there if need be. She wants to stay sober, but I can tell that although she wants to try, there are thought processes... ways that she says things that lets me know she has doubts, and is giving herself outs to be okay with herself if/when relapse does happen.

I feel horrible for thinking I may have to leave her. I'd love to spend the rest of my life with this woman, if only she could find her happiness within, and lean on me, and other sober buddies when she needs to. Just not sure how I can best support her. I'm considering going to Al-anon, not really for myself, but to better understand her condition.

Guess I don't really have a specific question, and am sorry for the wall of text, I just needed to write, and maybe get some feedback. I don't know how to approach her on this stuff. Maybe just be her friend the best I can without judgement. Maybe just try to appreciate the moments I do have with her, and allow her to be as she is and not think of it as any personal failure if/when the seemingly inevitable happens.

Ann

Wow, that's quite a roller coaster ride you have been on and it looks like you are heading for more time in the park.

This relationship has been crazy and drug infested from day one. No matter what you want, or hope for, it is what it is and it won't be going anyplace good any time soon.

Years of trying to save her have done nothing except kept you on the hook. Nothing changes if nothing changes.

I realize this sounds harsh, but you asked for feedback and this is the best I have.

There is no casual friendship in situations like this. There is on the roller coaster or out of the park.

The choice is yours, we walk with you no matter what you choose. But this relationship is toxic and has red flags all over it and I am sorry to say it's not going to take you any place good.

Hugs

branbran

Thanks for the honesty. I had to look at my call log from last year online in order to find the payphone to reach her at this facility. She said she would contact me by then, and it hadn't happen, and I was starting to trip out, so found a solution.

I'm getting that even if she doesn't truly realize it due to denial, or maybe she does realize it and is consciously using me, I may in fact just be some sort of fall out guy for when she has no place else to go, gets bored of just users, or whatever. Basically I'm going to release her until she proves to me that she's genuinely interested in building back trust and respect with me.

No more calling her. I'll wait her out. In the meantime, I'm moving on with my life.

Thanks again.

Txhelp

You can wait for her potential to be discovered but really all you have what you have today! She may never live up to her potential.

She needs to prove long term that she is in recovery. This is through her actions alone and no what she says.

You have some very clear warning signs-"red flags." This roller coaster may be as good as it gets. Add marriage; children; etc and you have a heck of a ride!

suki44883

You ARE just a fall out guy. This woman couldn't tell the truth if her life depended on it. You will never have a happy relationship with her because she is incapable. Her only interest in your or anyone else is what she can get. Your best bet would be to run as far and as fast as you can from her. If she did get syphilis and hasn't been properly treated, you could get it too simply from prolonged kissing or close bodily contact. This woman has nothing to offer you but more heartache and misery.

branbran

Sorry, it's just not that cut and dry. She's a human being first and foremost, and we're all capable of change. You don't know enough about her to be making such sweeping statements.

As for the syph, it's easily treatable in early stages. If she gave it to me, I would take a round of antibiotics and be done with it. She was tested twice in prison, the first time it came up positive, the second time it came up negative. I've asked her to get tested again, which it's offered for free in her current facility. If anything, I should be more concerned about the hep-c. Although it's much more difficult to contract, it's viral.. .

buttercup89

Look, i really know how you feel. It's not that long ago,since I said and thought the same thing, but even suki's words are hard, they contain a lot of truth. Yes, she can change, but she has to change herself, you cannot change her and you cannot help her. A user (i guess Ann?) wrote in a different thread, that if love could save our addict loved ones, none of us would be here. Unfortunately, it's not so easy.

I got similar responses not so long ago. And yes, that's not something you want to read, but we ask for their advice, and I guess, that's the best advice we can get. (and I really, really, wish it'd be different)

How ever you decide, stay strong

branbran

All I can be is someone for her to have a change in environment from her using friends. She has cut them out of her life. That's a really good sign. I think she actually went through with narcing on them, which though I'm not really for, I can understand that it was likely best for her. It means she simply doesn't have the ability to go back there, at all.

I can't love her into changing, and that's taken a really long time to learn. Thanks.

buttercup89

But can you be that person without hurting yourself? I totally understand, that you don't want to turn your back on her or to leave her alone, but i think it's a really hard thing to do once you're emotionally involved. Take care of yourself.

branbran

Not a chance I wouldn't be hurt; however the question is to what degree. With each new round of disappointment, comes less hurt, because I expect to a higher degree than not.

Whichever way you look at it, this is hard lessons of the heart. The easy way of viewing this is labeling me co-dependent. I just think that's a lazy view. (not implying you would view it this way)

cynical one

Since your mom found her letters, I'm going to assume that you live at home and are still very young. If college is in your future, trying to "be there" for someone who is trying to recover from a long-term meth addiction is going to be quite time-consuming. Your studies and work will suffer, at least it did for me and I was quite a bit older.

It's not our place to tell you to run, but I can say for me, life is hard enough without inviting troubled people into it. If this is as good as it gets...is it good enough?

branbran

No. I'm 31, and don't live at home. I had her send letters there so as not to know my address.

I had no need for college, or the rat-race. Bypassed it long ago.

buttercup89

well i wouldn't label you co-dependent. but i'm not familiar with that. I basically think you're in love with/ really like an addict. (like me btw). so you want her to be fine so that you can be with her. so the question is, if you really want to go down that road, even if you jeopardize yourself and your life.

branbran

It depends on her. She shows me two years of recovery, I'm going to be wooing her, slapping a ring on that finger, and trying to get her to pop out a kiddo for us. She goes in for another round, I'm just not getting any younger here... will be looking elsewhere for another extreme woman.

You can't choose the people whom you realize you'll make a good kid with. The risks, oh well life is all about risks. Never dated a woman who wasn't quite the risk. The boring ones are just not going to keep my interest. I dated someone who had dissociative identity disorder, and had to dodge a few knifes and what not... hehe, it was pretty fun, actually.

Lenina

Branbran,

many of us Codie's are a bit addicted to the drama of being with troubled people. The chaos is addicitng, the rush of adrenaline! you might consider checking out your own choices.. Why these troubled ladies?

Bringing a child into a drama fest isn't fair or kind. I think it's selfish. please, maybe look into getting some therapy for yourself. You deserve healthy relationships.

love from Lenina

buttercup89

I see your point, but I also see the point of the others who tell you to run. I think it's good that you want to see those 2 years of recovery, but that doesn't have to mean anything long term. She can always relapse. Sure, then we're talking about risks again... it may or may not happen.

branbran

They have more potential in future terrains. Our children will have an edge, and a chance to survive/thrive longer than others.

You can choose to view it that way, but I don't necessarily agree, nor do I know that she'd be around to raise the child. Depriving a child of the ability to grow in a troubled environment, is not something I'm willing to do. You look at some of the most successful entreprenuer's in all of history, and will disproportionately find a chaotic environment.

Societies values are not my own, absolutely.

I want it more for the potential child, than myself. Not wise to have her try and have another baby at her age, if she's going to be under the influence, or in the process of detoxing.

Ann

Count the"ifs" in your posts. You are not living in reality. She is not unique, you are not unique. We all thought we were coming in here but that idea changes quickly when we see the same patterns over and over.

You can live in her chaos or you can live in your peace...the two cannot coexist.

Good luck.

branbran

Ann, I'm just not going to be taking any of your posts seriously, anymore... sorry.

Far too black and white for me to bother.

jjj111

My suggestion is that you seek recovery for yourself. Try going to AA. You have only been sober yourself for four months and haven't had any therapy or program to help you recover. It takes time and support to get back to a place of thinking clearly after getting sober. Thinking that dodging knives is fun and that children would benefit from the chaos of an addicted mother--this is not thinking clearly. I grew up with two alcoholic parents, and it has left scars that may never heal entirely. You've left behind booze and pot for a few months now, but you are continuing to seek thrills through this toxic relationship. Getting involved in AA would help you to find a healthier way to live.