hopeful4

Wow...thank you for posting this Chino. I know in this area there are too many times that the police will not intervene involving children stating it is a "civil" matter.

Please protect yourselves.

February13

I am not sure what you expect from the police Needadvice12.
Your brother is using suicide threats to manipulate you but they can see that he is not a danger to himself. Your mother is not requesting for him to leave. What should the police do? Your brother wants to use drugs. You cannot control that, neither can your mother. Your mother could decide to let your brother have consequences for his action but she doesn't. It doesn't sound like your participation makes the situation any better.

You should check out an Alanon meeting.
I just got home from one. The topic was the first step.
"We admitted we were powerless over alcohol-that our lives had become unmanageable"
Alcohol, drugs. Same thing.

There is one sentence from the Step 1 part in the book "How Al-anon works for Families and friends of Alcoholics" ----> "We confuse caring with controlling because we don't know how to allow others the dignity of being themselves". The way I see it your mother would be doing your brother a favour by asking him to leave/making him leave.

Ask your mom to come with you to Al-anon.
Tell her : you didn't cause it.
you can't cure it.
You can't control it.
It's so hard being a mom and there is so much guilt involved for all the things we could have done better or differently.

Good luck.

bluebelle

I hope he was able to get some help at the hospital.

We had my mom committed involuntarily. We had documentation of everything. We kept it all together. We included acts of violence and threats. No, the police couldn't do anything when they came. However, we were able to use the police reports as evidence when we went to see the magistrate. We were able to use that during the court hearing to have her committed. This included an arrest she had for felonious assault and breaking & entering. By the time of the hearing, she was so psychotic that it was obvious to the judge that she should be held.

It is very difficult to commit someone. Even after we had her committed, she "played the game" and was at a facility for only 2 weeks. We were not told before her release.

We ended up moving my grandparents so that they would no longer be near my mom--for their safety. They agreed to move. Your mom makes her own decisions, and you can't force her to do anything. I understand you worry about it being an unsafe situation, but you can't force her to remove him from the home.

Please take care of yourself and get help for yourself. I was very traumatized by the events with my mother, and counseling really helped me.

Needadvice12

I've been visiting my brother in the last two days. He got transferred to a unit to get his uneven heart rate monitor for the night. He had a sitter watching him 24/7. He asked us to visit him so my mom and I could "convince the psych doctor that he was put in 5150 due to a misunderstanding." He wanted to leave and go home. Obviously, mom and I personally don't agree. Before we arrived in the morning to visit him, he looked happy chatting with the sitter.

After my mom and I settled in, there was a tense moment where we didn't speak. He didn't respond to my mom when she asked him if he was alright. When he spoke, he blamed my mom for putting him in the hospital (he's not taking any responsibility) , appeared having a hard time to contain himself as he told her to "not cut him off" when my mom wanted to explain. He said all the threats he shouted were not meant to harm us, but to get our attention. I could tell if we weren't in a hospital setting, he would burst. The sitter was able to tell he looked controlling and anxious. He looked anxious when he tried to look for a pair of socks. The sitter had a chat with him that he needed to put the past behind him and look forward. She explained to him that my mom and I came because we love him (that's true). Today I learned that my brother needs emotional support from my mom.

The sitter told me privately that my brother needs to stay in a psych ward for 2-3 days longer to get him to realize what he's done wrong. When the psych doctor came, I spoke with the doctor privately to recommend him to stay a little longer. We didn't feel my brother was ready to go home because he's not feeling responsible and his behavior of being controlling and anxious didn't change. We feared him. Doctor might extend him for 14 days and get him on meds for his mood swings.

My brother was cleared from his cardiologist to get back to the Psych unit. My mom and I visited him last night again. Before our visit, he called us to think of ways to get him out of the hospital. He still doesn't seem to realize why he's in there. During the visit, us 3 had an hour conversation, he finally admitted it was his fault, that he shouldn't have threats. We got to explain what we did what we did, that we feared for our safety. He seemed to be more clear headed and insightful of everything that happened. He promises to go see the psych doctor at home and take the meds as he's prescribed. It is the first time we had a long conversation as a family.

I dunno if he's playing a mind game, but I could tell he wants to leave. I hope he's changed. Sigh.

suki44883

I seriously doubt he's changed in a matter of a few days. I very much hope your mother doesn't allow him to return to her home. I can pretty much guarantee that if he gets back there, nothing will have changed and he will be angry for having been committed to the psych ward.

The only way this nightmare will end for your mother and you is if the two of you end it. Otherwise, nothing will change and you will continue to live in fear.

hopeful4

I hope you can stay strong and continue to tell the doctors he needs continued help. Your brother has serious problems and his only focus right now is getting out of the hospital. He needs long term help, be honest with the doctors and encourage your mom to do so also. I am so sorry.

If the pot and Xanax start up again the behavior will follow.

Tight Hugs.

LuLu13

I really dislike when the police get blamed in these situations, their hands are tied. Do you think they enjoy being called to the same houses over and over? Until your mom is willing to boot him out or he becomes violent and leaves visible marks which the cops can see there is not much they can do, especially if your mom won't pursue it. Addicts are master manipulators, verbal threats are just that, verbal. The really problem is not with the police but with the lack of mental health services available in this country.

I truly hope your mother gets the strength to act and that your brother gets the help he needs.

Needadvice12

Hi everyone,

Just wanted to provide an update on my brother. He was discharged 6 days later after a hearing judge found him in favor. He attended the hearing because the psych doctor wanted him to stay longer after he refused to take any bipolar medicine. If he refuses, mom and I can't force him (we both do think he needs to take meds). During the hearing, he spoke his side of the story, that he went overboard with the ectasy, which made him go erratic. The psych doctor didn't prescribe him any anxiety medicine (Ativan) that he took during his stay. I did make the request but nothing happened.

After he got home, he appeared normal and proceeded to smoke weed to ease his pain for his preexisting stomach condition (hospital didn't give him his regular prescribed stomach meds for the first three days because they weren't cleared by the Internal MD). My mom and I didn't want him to smoke marijuana. He said he was in pain after all the days he stayed. Later in the evening, he started acting out by venting how he suffered for 6 days because of us. He expressed his resentment. This time he didn't blow up like he used to. He wasn't up in my mom's face. He's more calmer than before but clearly upset. I could tell he tries to contain himself. We listened to him vent until he finished.

The next morning he started having an anxiety episode after his phone stopped working. Long story short, I had to take him to the Apple store after he attempted to drive after taking a pill of xanax (he still had some in his possession...). My mom couldn't drive him because he insisted on taking the wheel. So I went him to take him. Throughout out trip to the Apple store, he appeared soulless and stoic - most likely due to the xanax. After 20 minutes, he appeared normal again and upset at my mom (resentment again) He told her to not stay home for 5 hours.

For nearly a week, he vented occasionally (however more calm than before) and didn't hang out with his friends. I figured it would take some time for him to get over it. Then i noticed he started to get into horoscopes. Before his admittance to the hospital, he was reading horoscopes. Since his release, he said horoscopes predicted his bad/good days (how he got admitted and "escaped" the hospital). His behavior became more bizarre. He started doing certain things (such as getting his car checked for mechanical issues) on a "good day". He lectured how if we don't trust him then he would curse us. He started texting me random bible passages (he never reads the bible) and other random jibberish that makes no sense. He would relay his "predictions" to try to connect to certain occurrences in World Wrestling Entertainment [WWE] (he's an avid fan of WWE, watches every episode before his outbursts began). Today, he called the cops to claim a certain gang made threats to him over Twitter and that cops should protect my house for 2 days. He said he needed to call the cops in order to bring "a miracle" to another gang. When cops arrived, they told him to stop reading horoscopes and lay off Facebook/Twitter. He went to his best friend's house and told all his jibberish nonsense. His friend text me expressing his concern because when he left, my brother was still there not wanting to leave. He even removed his clothes and walked the block naked and continued to scream his friend's name. Eventually his older brother took him in to talk with him and I went to his house to convince him to come home. When he got home, he showed paranoia when he got him thinking others were in the house to get him (perhaps scared of the gang coming after him?) I got a hold of his phone to check what kind of texts he's been sending to his friends. All of them are all jibberish. His friends responses are: "are you ok? you're tripping me out" or "hey you're acting weird...are you ok?"

Live

First, I abhor the stigma around bipolar and secondly, I have bipolar. I am not a loose cannon, I take my meds from my pdr and see a therapist.

That said, it sounds like he is spinning into a manic breakdown with psychosis and he won't be able to just turn that off. Most likely it will get worse and more bizarre and it can even cause blackouts. I once had a period where I seemed normal, just a little hyper but I remember almost nothing of two weeks. I put myself into the hospital.

Substance abuse is comorbid in 40% of bipolar people.
He needs dual diagnosis treatment. Keep a wary eye and take care of yourselves, it sounds like he is on the fast track back to the hospital.

hopeful4

First thing first, once again you are enabling him when you drive him to the store, etc. If he chooses to drive under the influence, call the police.

I am wondering if he has been tested to be scitzophrenic (sp?). They often have extreme paranoia mixed with manic episodes. I know this also happens with bipolar in some instances. The book Madness by Marya Hornbecher describes her own plight with bipolar and how it was out of control when she was substance abusing. When one is walking down the street naked is a good time to try and have them committed, that very second.

He obviously needs alot more help and is a danger to himself and others. I also want to mention as Live did above, you don't have to be a loose cannon if you are bipolar. What you do have to do is be willing to take your medication and be very aware and involved with your own recovery. Until that point comes, he will not be well at all.

It may take time after time of having him committed, but he has very deep and serious issues. I did not realize he is taking E. That will send a person w/psychosis out of control very quickly.

I am so sorry you are dealing with this. Please please protect yourselves.

Kindeyes

The stigma for mental illness is much the same as the stigma for addiction.....and hopefully, with education....it will get better. In some ways, I do think it's improving slowly. I wish there was as much activism for mental health and addiction as there is for gay rights, civil rights, gun control, animal rights, etc. Perhaps some headway could be made on eliminating the stigma.

The important part of Live's statement was: I am not a loose cannon, I take my meds from my pdr and see a therapist.

Unfortunately, as with addiction, non-compliance is an issue. When people don't want to do what they need to do or what the doctors prescribes, etc., it is very difficult for those around them. There are all kinds of problems in the mental health field. Differing opinions. Over medication. Under medication. Mis-diagnosis. Over diagnosis. Under diagnosis. Lack of insurance coverage. And the list goes on and on. A patient who is non-compliant (for anything.....not just mental illness) makes it tough on the healthcare provider and the family.

I am sorry that you and your Mom are dealing with this......sometimes we have to take drastic measures to protect ourselves and get our loved ones the help they need. I was once told by someone in the medical profession (an MD who specializes in addiction) that it is easier to get help for someone with a mental health issue, than it is to get help for someone with an addiction issue. He suggested that when there is possible dual diagnosis (which is difficult to assess because drug addiction can cause a whole series of behaviors that can be improved sans said drugs), to concentrate on addressing it from a mental health perspective.....I would be more likely to get help for my son.

You, your Mom and your brother will be in my prayers.

gentle hugs
ke

outtolunch

Does he work or attend school? Does he drive? Does he have any friends?

Needadvice12

He has friends and he does drive. Not really attending school.

Last night his behavior was absolutely bizarre and uncontrollable. He seems to be out of touch. My mom got him lunch since 11 am and he didn’t eat it when I got him around 6pm. He ended up eating something else I got him, which was good because he is so thin! He eats once a day. While he was in his room, I called the mental help hotline , told them about my brother’s situation. They think it’s the marijuana that causes my brother’s odd behavior. I asked what I should do and they say “if he doesn’t meet the criteria of 5150 – being dangerous to himself, others or gravely endangered then nothing can be done unless he admits himself.” I thought great, he would never admit himself because he doesn’t think he needs help!
From 10 pm - 4 am, he blast on full volume music. My sleep was interrupted every hour. I got 2-3 hours of sleep last night. I advised him to turn it down 20 times. He looked calm, would say OK, turn it down then turn it back up a minute later if as my comments didn’t mean anything. At other times, he would say OK and didn't do anything about the volume. WTH?! I tried to scare him by saying "hey cops will show up if your music is too loud…neighbors will call the cops." He remained stoic and not startled as I expected he would be (after he got released from 5150 the first time, he said didn't wanna involve cops to go back to the mental hospital again so I was surprised). He smoked pot every 2 hours and 5 cigs every hour.

He didn’t want to sleep because he was “scared of a gang coming after him” after making a threat on Twitter. I looked at his twitter account and saw no threats made by others. I have never seen him like this. He listened to the same music over and over, continued to type one-worded incoherent and random number messages in references to horoscope nonsense on twitter. I tried to give him Seroquel as advised by his psych doctor to get him more balanced if he appeared implusive. He refused and said "i want my xanax". I tried to trick him to no avail saying things like “these will make you feel better…I’ll give you xanax later”. He wanted to go to a friend’s house at 3 am….the friend doesn’t welcome him anymore due to his weird behavior. I was able to convince him to stay home though. At the end I got fed up with his music so I unplugged the speaker plug. He didn't seem to realize how it got unplugged (he's a computer techie before all of this happened). He kept turning the volume and then asked me to give him back his music …WTH. I told him “go to sleep and I will give you back the music.” In the past I never had to talk to him like a child. Then he started screaming at bedroom window and the living room saying things like “I control the world……I’m the Undertaker (WWE conference)…I will make my family rich” and other nonsense delusions. I asked who he’s talking to and he said “no one” and continued to yell. Finally, I got fed up and called the police reporting that he’s causing a disturbance and exhibiting schizophrenia symptoms (delusion, thinks he's God and able to control the world)

6 cops showed up and had a chat with him. One of the cops pulled me aside and told me to find a hospital. Although he couldn’t declare him 5150, he thinks my brother still needs to get help and he would be able to call an ambulance for me. I kept some hospital number and I called the one closest to me. They can accept him if he admits himself voluntarily. Apparently, my brother was willing to go to a hospital to “be protected from a gang coming after him. “ Long story short, we did end up taking him. He got assessed; the assessment person concluded he will be on hold because he is delusional. After that, my mom and I were placed in a room to be him for a short wait. My brother continued to say odd things like “trust me…I can make you all rich…all the people who hurt you will get on their knees and beg for mercy.” Shortly after, he got super agitated, screamed in the lobby and the security had to get him together.

In the evening today I asked the nurse about how he's doing. After he slept, he was "psychotic and kept closing door in every room, screaming things that are not incoherent." Just now around 8 pm he asked me to visit him (i didnt wanna) and take him home and that he will "bring all the good things I want in my life." I told him "why are you saying stuff like this? they're delusions. i can't take you home today." He sounded agitated and the phone hung up.

jjj111

I'm so sorry you're going through this. It must be completely exhausting. I think you did the right thing by calling the police. It sounds to me like his mental state is getting worse by the minute, and this is much more than you or your Mom can handle. I hope you can take this time while he's in the hospital to take good care of yourself and get some support. Do you have access to a therapist or a NarAnon or even AlAnon meeting? I agree with other posters that the only way you are going to be safe is if you are no longer living with your brother. I know that must be so hard to contemplate, but this situation is dangerous for you, and you deserve to live in peace and safety. Good luck! ((hugs))

Needadvice12

Hey all,

I wanted to provide an update. Since my brother got admitted to a hospital on March 12 with a diagnosis of schizophrenia, he got discharged 6 days later despite my plead to the psych doctor to keep him longer. No way in hell my brother was stablizied. He still appeared super delusional and paranoid upon his discharge. Anyways, guess what happened after he got discharged? A few hours later, he walked outside to smoke a cigarette and walked around our house complex a few times. On a normal basis, my brother wouldn't walk outside to take a smoke, he would normally do it in the patio. My mom followed him, keeping distance behind him, lost him and later found him in the middle of the busy street. My brother walked into a busy street and stood still in the middle as cars dodged and honked at him. My brother didn't seem to care! Then he proceeded to cross the street back and forth a few times. My mom was super terrified! She told me all of this after I got home from picking him his prescriptions. An hour after I got home, my brother threw a tantrum demanding money for marijuana. This was when I called the police to report his tantrum and street incident.

The police came and took my brother outside our house. One of the 6 officers that showed up at my house last time came and talked with and i briefly told him that my brother got discharged too soon, he walked on the street... The police asked my brother why he did it and his answer was "i did it to prove I am human." This is when the police 5150-d him again and took him the hospital involuntarily.

Long story short, he is at a 3rd hospital now after the 2nd hospital (where the police took him) declared he was "ok to go home." WTF. He's been at the 3rd hospital for a week. Total he's been hospitalized this month for 2 weeks all together. He appears more coherent and clear headed now, although not 100% because he continues to show paranoia and delusions of a gang coming after him. He's able to make a sense of the date and time.

Now the nurse or and social worker want to stage an intervention for him to enter a drug program because the psych doctor thinks his mental condition was caused by marijuana, which I think is true. He smoked alot after he got released from the first 5150 last month. At this 3rd hospital, his diagnosis is bipolar Type I with depressed psychotic features.

jjj111

Sorry to hear that your brother continues to have serious problems. Please don't forget that you and mother deserve peace and safety. I suggest you give some thought to what you need in order to feel safe and peaceful?

OpioPhobe

Needadvice - First off all, I am very sorry for what you are going through. It sounds like a living nightmare, and I don't know how you have been able to keep yourself together. Hopefully the 3rd hospital will be more thorough than the prior two.

I have mixed feelings even bringing this up, but in the event that he gets released too early again have you thought about calling the cops on him with the intention of getting him arrested and sent to jail? Does he have a script for the Xanax? It would obviously be a very drastic step, but drastic times call for drastic measures. Jail may be safer than home and/or the street. Unfortunately our jail / prison system has in many ways replaced our long-term, inpatient mental health care. I have no idea about the laws there, how long they would hold him, if he could make bail, if it is a felony charge, etc., but it may be something to look into.

Only you will know how that drastic step would impact your relationship with him, but I wanted to mention it in case the situation deteriorates further and you have no other options.

Needadvice12

Yeah, it was a living nightmare. It was a living nightmare before his psychosis kicked in. I feared for my mother and her safety. Since he got admitted to a psych hospital this month, I feared he would get discharged early every day if he wasn't stabilized. I've been depressed since he went to a psych hospital. I didn't think his mental state would get worst. How long would it take for the medicine to start working? What happens if he gets discharged early again? How would I deal with him if he wouldn't take his medication? Since he got admitted, I've been calling every phone number I got a hold of to try to get a conservatorship. Getting a conservatorship isn't easy. Either the hospital imitates or you pay pay thousands of dollar to a lawyer to get a court order AND the patient needs to be "gravely disabled". I almost cried every day thinking, ultimately one day I might have to give up taking him home if he gets hospitalized again, thus putting him in a homeless shelter because I can't handle him. I was so torn. Could I have helped him sooner before his psychosis kicked in? Perhaps getting him arrested when I had to chance to report his domestic violence to get him a wake up call and get him into a drug program in jail.

Today, I had a meeting with the social worker and my brother. My brother appeared to be looking alot better than before- almost to his normal state. I think he's finally accepted that he is bipolar and he wants to go home asap. He doesn't seem to realize that he's delusional about a gang coming after him though so I'm not gonna dwell on that. I think his medication has minimized his paranoia. The purpose of the meeting was to get him to a drug rehab for his addiction. He said he doesnt have an addiction problem (not true) and he's already "quit". I told him he didnt quit, he didnt smoke because he got hospitalized. his choices were : go to rehab, or be homeless. He still doesn't wanna go to rehab and said we should "give him a chance." Nope, no more chances.

jjj111

I think it's very brave of you to put your safety and your mother's safety first. I think that the boundary you have set of rehab or a homeless shelter is very reasonable under the circumstances. My sister is an addict, so I have some idea how hard it is to detach from a brothr/sister's problems for your own safety and sanity. Please know that that is not your fault. I'm so glad that you have involved the police and a social worker. You deserve all the support you can get!

Txhelp

So sorry you are going through this....tough times. What I find with severe mental illness is unless you have legal rights he can choose treatment or not. That is why so many with mental illness are in jails or homeless. Most are aware that they need help unless they are totally delusional. You brother seems to be aware.

You may have to set some very clear boundaries. For instance, "in order for.you to live with me you have to be in treatment and take your medications. If you don't do this and/or you get violent...the cops will be called 100% of the time. "

He has choices....your family needs to be protected and live as peaceful as possible.

I have worked with people that the only reason why they got help was because they did not want to become homeless. Even though they were totally sure they were Jesus, CIA, etc and did not need help.

Boundaries are powerful.