lizwig

Hi AF, I know I'm arriving late to the party but here goes....in terms of "outing her". You don't need to do that. I have a feeling you're better than that. It wouldn't make you feel good. You'd be surprised how many people probably already know and aren't saying anything out of respect for you. It's an uncomfortable topic. My son still lives in the very small town where I know everyone. His "escapades" have been common knowledge. I get support from a small handful of people but I'm always amazed when I'm home visiting how many people I run into ask about him or the situation. It always takes me aback. I'm like seriously? What was your name again??? At first I would struggle through but the last couple of times (since I've been attending al-anon actually) I am much more comfortable saying "why do you ask?" and then I let them verbalize why they are being snoopy or whatever. Lot's of uncomfortable red faces in this world! Frankly it's none of their business. In your case, small island, you could simply say "you know, I haven't actually talked with her for awhile so I can't really say....but if you do...please give her my love". Nothing bad about her, but nothing much for them to repeat either.

Before I read Zoso's reply about a possible personality disorder the thought had crossed my mind as well...I believe it was Zoso who recently said on another thread the sex was amazing with these types of individuals and something along the lines of they are always packaged nicely...I thought to myself upon reading that it's really unfortunate they don't come with an FDA nutritional warning listing their ingredients...."product may contain: undisclosed amounts of guilt, tall tales, more than your daily ration of manipulation and lots and lots of nuts".

I have actually found a lot of comfort attending open AA meetings and do attend al-anon weekly. I believe there is a lot of real recovery in those rooms. I attend because of the hope it provides. But...given the choice....I'd attend Nar-anon if I could. This site has helped me tremendously. A lot of great people here. Being able to sign on and get a reality check when my thoughts start swirling has kept me grounded (somewhat?!!) and just knowing you aren't alone is very comforting.

Hang in there....if you're on an island....please go take a walk on the beach for me. I miss the waters of Washington state more than I can say.

Kindeyes

On enabling:

There is no need to go into detail regarding the specifics of the nature of her issues or your breakup if you are uncomfortable doing so. It is no one's business and it would serve no useful purpose to "out" her. Is this keeping her secret a secret? Perhaps....but unless you feel the need to tell others......share it here on SR anonymously. That's ok and safe.

I live in a small community. Not an island but might as well be one. Everyone knows everyone or knows someone who knows everyone. And I own a business in this small community......but it also has a very powerfully strong recovery community. Those are the people I feel safe with. And if someone violates my anonymity.....that's on them. I'm pretty well known around here......I'm sure everyone knows about my son's drug history. I choose to handle it with grace.....besides.....it's none of my business what others think of me.

On meetings:

Living in an area with lots of ferries....I do understand the expense.....but ferries are less expensive than therapy. Plans can be made around ferry schedules and meeting times to minimize expense. I'm willing to guess you may be on a mainland periodically? if you can jive those trips with a meeting....it can work. With that said, I did use the services of a private therapist and it helped tremendously. But the greatest help I received by reading, going to meetings, working the 12 steps, and focusing on me. The cost of those tools other than therapy......minimal.

SR is a great resource. There is lots of long term recovery here. Some of what you read may not be helpful to you now or may rub a raw nerve. When I feel a raw nerve being rubbed, I usually need to really delve into what's going on with me. Take what you need, leave (or store) the rest. And keep asking questions. SR is a reasonable substitute for f2f meetings for those who don't have access.

gentle hugs
ke

allforcnm

I am coming late to the party too. Im sorry for your experience, and in time I hope that you can stop being so hard on yourself. We are all human, filled with so many emotions, and we make decisions based on our past experiences, how our actions were met, the outcomes. Many of the qualities that you showed in interactions with her, are actually very positive. The truly "damaged" person in this relationship appears to be your ex.

What you can do to benefit yourself I feel... is take a bit of time and begin breaking down your part in all of it, grow strong where you feel weak, and understand your own emotions and why you feel the way you do.

My husband was addicted to pain meds then went off on some other lovely drugs, we were separated for a period of time when he made it clear he was not ready to stop. He did end up in treatment, and now has about 17 months clean.

One of the things that helped me ... was private therapy. I never did meetings, it just wasn't for me. With therapy however, I felt I had a safe place to go, someone I could vent to, someone that had training and could help me analyze the why's of things. I found a lot of answers, they are really within us the whole time I think; but things get foggy and we cant see them sometimes. Anyway, I always suggest therapy especially if someone is already considering it for themselves. Sometimes it takes a few sessions to feel comfortable and really open up, but once you do that, its like the floodgates are opened.

On enabling and telling others. I think mostly, if you were living together and she was using and you were hiding it, but were trying to maintain appearances... then you would be enabling. Your true feelings would not be exposed, and in a way you would be keeping her safe, and life on the outside would appear normal. But if she is out of your life, then I dont think its an issue of enabling, its more about if you have friends you want to share this with, then do it to help yourself. If it is better to keep it quiet for now at least, than do that. I dont think you have to have all the answers today. Take small steps that feel right for you.

anotherfool

Thanks all, for confirming some of my thoughts. I don't wish to "out" her, but I do wish to resume genuine relationships with the people around me, I guess I'll just play it by ear.

I know we have a couple of therapists here, who simply act as a confidant for locals, at a reduced price, because they understand need for confidentiality. I just haven't summoned up the courage to make the call.

Lucky for me, I've thinking more about me than her lately, and may have discovered the root of all this mess. 14 years ago, my friend India died under her desk. With a needle in her arm. One week out of rehab. Taking "the usual dose".

It was my first year on-island (she was a friend from the city), and I had been out of the loop about all of it. I just returned one day to visit a friend who then announced that she was dead.

As soon as I heard those words, my first thought, was that had I been present, I could have done something. Anything. Things would have turned out differently. She was the only friend who didn't abandon me when I quit doing drugs in my early twenties (recreationally), and I was always impressed by that.

I knew nothing of addiction then, and am only learning about it now, but I think I have carried this undeserved guilt for quite some time. And I think the latest fiasco is just one more sad attempt to correct the past, by compensating in the present.

I know I can't stop any of it, but some part of me believes otherwise.

India was 24. We had worked and played together for 8 solid years of our young lives. She didn't deserve that end.

blackandblue

Woah horse- woah! One step at a time. Good on you for thinking of her first- that was very compassionate and kind. Now, she did not put you first, so somebody has to come in and save you. You! Anyway, I injected drama, but if I may say so, do whatever you need to do for you. Get informed. She made her bed. It's your survival that is at stake. She is a big girl. Anyway, yes I have lived in small towns. big cities, and random parts of the world so I get it. But, you have options- so choose the next best thing for you. Maybe SR and counseling. Maybe meetings. There are so many resources. But most importantly- live, laugh, and love- regardless of what she is doing. Be the solution.

Hammer

Amen on that and go check yourself in here, as well. >>>

http://bpdfamily.com/

Hit the forums and read Your Story, over and over and over and . . . .

anotherfool

So I broke contact tonight with a conversation. As you would expect, she made me feel like some kind of a-hole.

Don't know why it feels so bad. It just does.

anotherfool

Her parting comment

"And the only thing predictable about me is that I WILL do heroin if it is in front of me. "

anotherfool

And she made me feel weak, because her existence is so much harder to deal with, than my knowledge of her existence.

lizwig

Sounds like she gave you a good reminder of why she is toxic for you at the moment. She told you exactly what her intentions are. It's sad...but true. So the bigger question becomes "why do you continue to expose yourself to this kind of drama"? Let her leave a message next time so you can screen the intent of her call perhaps. We are all learning together here. Trying to debate anything with someone in active addiction is like poking your eye out with a pencil. At least you can trust the results with the pencil. And I suppose with the addict too. Have a good day...go do something nice for yourself or someone else. You don't need to spend the day giving away your power.

Kindeyes

Well she's wrong there. Addicts are extremely predictable......and so are we.

The addict keeps doing the same things over and over and over again. And so do we.

That is the crux of the dance of addiction.

It doesn't stop until one of the two parties leaves the dance floor by changing their very predictable behaviors.

It's just how it works.

You can get off the roller coaster any time you want to......when you're ready. Some of us (me) rode it for many years before realizing that it was within our control to step off anytime we wanted to. It's up to you.

gentle hugs
ke

anotherfool

I wanted to end it with some kind of explanation, but I knew there was no explanation she would accept, so I didn't know what to do. We chatted (via FB, ), I told her I didn't want to do it any more. First she used anger, how it's not my problem and I'm a loser for not being able to "take it". I unfriended her, but it took at least a half an hour before FB wouldn't allow her to message me.

Then she moved on to reminiscing about the good times, stroking all those memories.

The she got high.

Then she used guilt, telling me what a worthless screw-up she is.

Then it's my fault for not believing in her, because I think she won't change, she can't.

Then it's a pic of her crying.

Then it's 1092 pictures of our summer together (via hosting site).

I feel like a frickin' yo-yo.

Vale

KE is right.Addicts are the only people in
life that are utterly & reliably & absolutely
...........predictable.

Kindeyes

I use the acronym F.O.G. frequently around here. Fear. Obligation. Guilt. Those are very effective tools of manipulation. Addicts don't have the corner on the market on F.O.G. Anyone who uses these tools of manipulation are using the very core of our fears, compassion, and kindness to get what they want. That kind of manipulation puts us quickly into a F.O.G. and we're unable to think clearly. We commit to things we don't want to do. We do things we don't want to do. We regret things we do that we wish we didn't as a result of F.O.G. Anytime I am talking to someone and I begin to feel any of those feelings, I know to stop, think, and not react immediately. A simple "I'll get back to you" or "Let me think about it" or the all time biggie "No" are safe responses. (I need to remember that No with a period after it.....is a complete sentence......because I often feel the urge to explain what "no" means. lol)

That's what I use to recognize and combat manipulation. It also helps me to recognize when I might be using those unfair fighting tools to manipulate someone. Mothers can be very good at using those tools.....at least mine was. lol

Take care of you.

gentle hugs
ke

anotherfool

Downloaded it today, and..holy crap....it's all so familiar.

Kindeyes

As long as you understand that I consider codependence a form of addiction, I'll agree. Codependents are utterly predictable too.

Croissant

Anotherfool.....there are so many issues here, but I get the sense that you need to work through your emotions, hence all the different bits of info as the thread goes on. I'm not even sure why you would think 'outing' her would be useful to her or your community. Would you have done that if things had worked out between you and her? Probably not.

She's 23 years old, probably not even begun to learn how to deal with emotions without drugs, so a relationship with you or anyone else is not a long lasting answer right now anyway.

I am sorry you lost a friend to drugs, but helping everyone out and wanting to believe the best is not the answer. If you are honest, you most likely found the attention flattering and she has admitted it was part of her efforts to recover. You've been manipulated, but you also had some fun...sorry...it goes both ways.

I hope you find a way to put this into perspective, but really this was a relationship was a no go zone from the go get, you said so yourself.

zoso77

Yup. My hope is after you finish reading it, you'll see how transparent she is. There is no mystery with her, man.

Doesn't mean you don't care about her. Doesn't mean you don't want the best for her. It just means you can't be around her without you suffering.

Stop Walking on Eggshells is another good one.

Hang in there, man.

ZoSo

Hammer

Yeah, Eggshells was a "Sit Up and Read All Night" book.

You see your life and so-called "relationship" all typed out there in one book and that is that.

My current reading is: STOP Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist; How to END the Drama and Get on with Life.

Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist: How to End the Drama and Get on with Life: Margalis Fjelstad: 9781442220188: Amazon.com: Books


Covers everything -- the Karpman Drama Triangle, your role, their "game," all of it.

Pretty much as one T mentioned to me -- Can't Fix Her. She does not have a problem. Things work for her. But you [me] -- we have a chance with -- maybe we can figure out why you have put up with all this foolishness.

anotherfool

You are 100% correct. But by choosing not to "out" her, I need some place to vent, and that's why I bring it here.