dasiydoc

I have been reading here for days now and I have some questions. Im sorry if this is long. I feel more confused after reading on this forum because most of my research has been more drug facts, theories on recovery, but you are actual people living with people with addictions, or who have left people with addictions in a lot of cases. I've been blown away by some of the things I've read that have happened to you.

There is a post on what "normies" don't know on the alcohol forum that really was an eye opener. After reading it I realize I am a "normie" but if I stay with my boyfriend and he gets worse I will start to be affected by all the things you talk about, and for the first time I'm actually afraid for myself.

I had a thread going about my situation, and won't repeat it here. But there were some things that came out of it I'd like to ask about in more detail if that's ok.

I've been telling myself and I said it here too that if my boyfriend gets worse and it begins to affect me then I will just leave him. This has been really easy in my mind. But in that post I made, MrSDragon called me out on that and asked if I was being honest with myself, would it really be easy for me to do. I hope this isn't too much information but last night I was in bed with my boyfriend, and we had well you know already, and he was asleep with his arms around me, and I was enveloped in all these good feelings, all the sudden realized it won't be easy for me. The longer we continue to make these good memories, the harder it will be if I have to walk away later.
I think he does want help by his actions of doing research, trying out the meeting, but he has to stop researching and take action NOW before it's too late and his mind is totally controlled by this drug.

I want to have a discussion with him, so while he is working today and I'm not; I'm going through all the stuff we have both put together about getting help and how, and I'm organizing it into options, seeing if we really have missed anything, and I need him to put action behind his words and pick one type of treatment. If he is serious then this is what he needs to do.

I want to ask your opinions on what would be best for him as it has helped your family members. There is inpatient rehab, this would be drastic for him because he would have consequences with work and his grad studies also. Outpatient rehab, also difficult with his work schedule, but it might work. There are groups like CA, NA but Im not sure this will work for him because of couple reasons. He isn’t much into the concepts it embraces, he is afraid the people cannot be trusted to maintain his privacy, and we both have real concerns that it doesn’t deal with the real source of the problem of why he uses, and the people no offense to them, are not trained in this stuff, they just share what they have been through, and then there is the whole thing about people being there who are not really wanting to get better and that environment would not be good and right now he does not have drug friends, only suppliers but he doesnt socialize with them. None of his friends, coworkers know about his use. Then there is counseling and therapy which is what I think he will choose, because it is one person, who is trained, he can pick the person, has more assurance of privacy, if he does not handle any of it through insurance then he also feels safer. I still do see the benefits of talking with others who are going through the same thing if he could combine the two things, but Im afraid the whole privacy issue will stop him. But I think some counselors sponsor group sessions and that might be something to ask when picking a doctor. We have also been reading about self-help methods like AVRT and some of might be combined with the counseling and would give him added benefits. I guess the doctor would have to be knowledgeable in these things and recommend books and stuff. Thoughts on all of this?

Here are my other questions. Lovemenow gave me an article and it says

"[Family involvement with] Questions, discussions, presentations of facts, confrontations, pleas, threats, ultimatums and arguments are characteristic of this process, which in more fortunate and less severe cases of addiction may sometimes actually succeed in its aim of arresting the addiction. But in the more serious or advanced cases all such human counter-attacks upon the addiction, even, indeed especially when they come from those closest and dearest to the addict, fall upon deaf ears and a hardened heart."


This means in some cases family interaction, assistance, encouragement is enough to get the person to seek and engage in treatment. I know for many of you it hasn't worked but like the article says for more severe, advanced cases it won't. My boyfriend has never really tried before so we don’t know. I've read lots of success stories other places where family intervention and support has worked. I want to try this first and I think it is reasonable.

What I am thinking is first I will do this alone with him, this discussion and insistence that he step up and do something NOW for himself. Not two weeks from now, a month. NOW.

If it does not work then I am thinking about going to speak with his parents. I have met them, I don’t know if they will want to talk to me about this, don’t know if they will want to get involved, don’t know if they will go directly to him and this will make him angry, but I sort of think that if he does get angry then it is really because he wants to protect his addiction instead of being honest with all of us; the people that love him. I mean maybe they would appreciate knowing I care enough about him to take this risk, and that I will work with them if they have been wanting to do something like a family intervention. Thoughts?

Now the next part, if he won't agree and he is spinning his wheels with practical reasons why he can't get help and try to stop NOW, then do I really go so far as to push him away and tell him we are over until he accepts he needs help, AND actually takes action and STARTS something?

The only reason I would be doing it is to try to force him to get help because right now I am happy with our relationship, and he is good to me. I will tell him this part also, and share that my fear is I will continue to love him more, and he will continue to become worse in his addiction and then it will be harder, maybe impossible for me to leave him without destroying myself.

I'm scared, and I'm still somewhat confused. Im not ready for the last step yet if he forces my hand. Does this mean I should wait on the whole plan until I am ready to follow through ? Is this even necessary? I see most of the people here seem to have a boundary that is really no drugs, and it seems like it is taken very personally if they use. I don’t feel like it is personal about me at all, not when I understand about how the drugs work and the psychological effects that cocaine use brings on. Im also confused because I came here only wanting to learn, help him gather information, support this phase he is in, but now I feel like I need to use our relationship to try to force him to take action because people are saying its no good for him if I just sit there and let him continue to get high, cause it will just get worse.

What else would help me most, trying a family meeting, or going to see a shrink myself ! I have a busy schedule, and I am also worried about privacy although a family meeting is not exactly like going to CA or NA as to what it implies. Are there online meetings, or is it all a lot like talking here on this site with people anyway? Also, I have ordered a couple more books, one of them is on codependency that was recommended by someone here.

SundaysChild

It is VERY difficult to stop trying to "rescue" and addict, so I understand why you are focusing so much about his recovery.

An intervention CAN get someone into treatment - but unless they are ready and willing, just getting them there won't do anything. That said, an intervention can really help get everyone in the addict's life on the same page. We did one with my son, and I was horrified when the interventionist required us to call all his aunts and uncles and invite them to the intervention. This destroyed our "secret" and was the beginning of our family becoming healthier. So, an intervention is not something you do on your own- in my experience it works best with a professional interventionist who works with the family and manages the process.

You can't manage his recovery - and by doing all the legwork on this, you are taking on a responsibility that is really his. You need to decide what YOU want. And if the answer is you want to be in a relationship with him...clean and sober...you need to take a step back and re-think that. He is an addict. That's who he is. He may choose to change someone down the line...and you could waste your life waiting for him to change.

bluebelle

The best recovery for your ABF is something that he will have to determine on his own. It is individual, but it has to be something he really wants. He has to put in the effort. He has to want to be clean.

At one point, I was really involved in my RABF's recovery. I had all kinds of ideas about how he should do it. I emailed him articles and I bought him books. We had many hours and hours of discussion--it was pretty much me telling him what he should do.

You know what? He lied to me about what he was doing for treatment. He tried one treatment and relapsed. He was clean for over 2 years, and then his addict behavior relapsed. He is back working on a recovery program now.

I finally admitted after several years of his recovery that I did not know what was best for him. I did not have ideas for how he should recover. I did not know who he should see. I did not know where he should go.

I finally learned that I am not God. I do not know the best path for my RABF. He may need to fall, falter, make mistakes--those are all his own. They are part of his path in life.

I know you are looking on answers on how to best help your ABF recover from drugs. The bottom line is that you cannot love anybody clean from drugs. The best thing you can do is work on yourself. Find fun and hope in your life on your own. If your happiness depends on your ABF's recovery, then you are in for a long rollercoaster ride.

Plus, there is something else it took me a long time to realize..getting free from drugs is not the cure all for the addict. They need to be more then clean. They need to work a program. It is a lot of work. They will have lots of mood swings. It won't make everything suddenly better for ABF. They will have to learn how to deal with their moods on their own and how to do things like work without drugs.

Take care and keep reading.

LoveMeNow

I am happy for you that you ordered some books on codependency. Trying to fix, save or rescue someone is classic codie 101 behavior.

I, too, have read all the "normies" thread. There were very interesting. IMO, a "normie" would run from anyone using drugs, a "normie" would see the red flags and end it quickly.

You sound a lot like me at one time. You are very determined to save him and this relationship. I just hope and pray yours turns out better then mine did. If I have learned anything it would be:

You can not love a person into wanting to change. They have to truly want/need it and even then it is very difficult.

Most of us, if not all, discover the addiction is far worse then we imagined.

I learned that drugs were a symptom if a bigger problem.

And we are just no match for addiction!! It is just that powerful, cunning and baffling. Hence, the reason there is no cure.

Lastly, I wasn't a "normie!" like I thought. I am codependent, will continue to work on it and I am not ashamed of it in the least. There are far worse things to be!!

kmangel

I think it is your boyfriend who has come to realize he needs to quit using drugs and therefore it will be him looking into all the options available to him. Is he as motivated as you seem to be? Has he reached that point in his drug using experience that it will be less painful for him to quit using than to keep using? He has to really want to quit. I understand your wanting him to be sober--but what does he want?

It is so easy to do the work that the addict should be doing himself. When my son was becoming a heroin addict, his father and I were both oblivious. It is a good thing because we didn't interfere with the downward spiral that was necessary for him to come to that resulted in his hating his addiction. Had we not been so clueless at the time I am sure we would have tried to get him help before he was ready to accept help.

Step back and see what your boyfriend is willing to do about his situation. He must be highly motivated to change. Is he really at that place where his abuse of drugs is causing him sufficient problems--or is it mostly a problem to you?

zoso77

Daisy...

I got about halfway through your post, and then I stopped because I was reading about your ABF instead of reading about you. So, what I'm going to do is, as gently as I can, tell you what (I think) the deal is.

Your ABF is sick. He is an addict. And if he's to embrace recovery, he has to make that decision on his own. It has nothing to do with you and everything to do with his choices and whether or not he wants to get honest with himself and live a better life.

I can tell you're confused because on the one hand, you're thinking about leaving him, but on the other hand, you're still sexually intimate with him. Forgive me for being this forward -- I'm usually not -- but you're not making things any easier for yourself by doing so.

If you're interested in your self preservation, and you love him, your decision is really quite simple. The hard part is pulling the trigger, and then standing by your decision. The best way to help him is to get out of his way, detach with love, and work on you.

Just because we love someone doesn't mean we should be with them.

A word of warning: if you decide to leave him, it's going to suck for you. It's going to hurt really, really bad. But there's no ducking it, Daisy. Doing the right thing is, more often than not, extremely difficult. And when it hurts, that's when you come here and lean on us. We'll be here. And if you need to PM, I'll be here for you.

Take Care,
ZoSo

lightseeker

Hi and welcome... I understand your pain and your desire to help someone that you care about.

Addiction is an insidious disease. It happens before you know it. You become focused on the "substance" and it begins to consume your thoughts and actions.

No.....I am not talking about someone that abuses alcohol or drugs. I'm talking about the people that love people with addictions. We become addicted to helping them and hoping that they will get better.

As I am fond of saying....the only winning move is not to play. Everyone has given candid and on target suggestions. Mainly, focusing on ones self is the healthiest way to go. Your BF has the information that he needs to make his own decisions. There is no way to "help someone" make the right decision. All you can really do is decide whether you want to be in a relationship with someone that routinely alters their consiousness.

It's wise to learn all that you can about the disease of addiction - but focusing on the aspect of what it might be doing to harm you and your life is the best way to keep your side of the street clean.

No one can tell you what to do. I had to play it out. The only thing that ended up saving me was working my own recovery. I was once told that the only way that a relationship that is affected by addiction can survive is if BOTH people work a strong recovery program.

I hope that you will stick around. There are so many wise people on these forums and I have found it to be really helpful for me.

Hugs....

Reed30

Daisy, Its very hard believe me I understand, like so many on this forum. But you need to understand that even if he never touches a drug again, he will always be an addict. He may channel it some other way. You will always have to worry about him. Recovery will be #1 for him, not you. Do you want that type of relationship? No one is saying that your bf isn't a good guy, but it seems that you have your own insecurities, which are preventing you from moving forward. "What if I don't find someone else?" "He Loves me" "he likes me for who I am" "he understands me" ...etc. The issues that led him to substance abuse, will always be there, remember that. One set back and he's back to square one.

Again, addicts aren't horrible human beings, we all have loved one, that is why we are here. But you need to realize that it isn't your job to 'fix' him. You deserve to be in a healthy relationship. Once you are in one, you will be like wow, this is how its supposed to be. Good Luck and realize you are an awesome person, DO NO SETTLE!

hello-kitty

Yes. This is true. No "normie" would date an active, open drug addict. They would not accept that kind of illegal, unhealthy behavior around them. They wouldn't justify it or try to convince themselves it was all going to be ok. I think "normies" have these things called personal boundaries that codependents do not have. They are not afraid to enforce them. They are not afraid to walk away from an unhealthy relationship.

crazybabie

Daisy, I may be wrong but I feel from what you wrote that no matter what we say you will do all the things you can to try and help fix him right now and that is your right. We share our ESH (Experience, Strength,Hope)

I have quite a few addicts in my life and all of them are different quick examples, oldest son stole from us often I finally had him arrested, middle son has never stolen from me or anyone I know of but has overdosed he died in my living room floor I did CPR it was a nightmare my daughters fiancee he never stole he bummed from his parents started drugs at age 19 died at 21 his third overdose.

My mom she is a recovering alcoholic, my dad still drinks but it dose';t
affect me anymore and he only drinks sometimes.

I can't think of anyone in my family besides my step-brother and my mom who does not at least smoke pot as you can see I have more experience with addiction than anyone could want to experience.

I don't understand your comment there are groups like CA, NA but Im not sure this will work for him because of couple reasons. He isn’t much into the concepts it embraces, he is afraid the people cannot be trusted to maintain his privacy, and we both have real concerns that it doesn’t deal with the real source of the problem of why he uses, and the people no offense to them, are not trained in this stuff,

JMHO, how can they not understand? They have lived it many addiction specialist are recovered addicts. They understand MORE than anyone who goes and reads books and gets a degree ever could IMO, example, you came here and read you went other places and read it appears you have learned as far as I know not many if any here have a degree in this/our area but we have plenty of experience.

AA and NA do keep anonymous no last name is even given. Your comment about drug friends that was tied in with this says to me your still trying to control.
You have taken in a lot in the past few days digest it and keep reading and posting.

I wanted to add my husband who I have been with since I was 15 I am now 47 smoked pot since he was 12 it bothered me later but not much but 3 years ago he also added pain pills. I use to laugh when people said it gets worse.

As, for you a therapist can help as can Al-anon Nar-anon etc...

The part about telling his parents wow not sure about that one as a parent I would wanna know BUT we often say don't tell because it isn't our place to.

I am glad you got the book.

dasiydoc

The thought process on getting his parents involved is because as far as I know they are the only other ones that know he uses. He has conflict with them but I also know he respects them a lot. Also, they are his financial enablers. I have known this a long time, but have never felt it my place to get involved.

dasiydoc

I've never felt like it was my place to fix, or save my boyfriend. I've known he uses for a long time now but it's never bothered me because it's basically invisible to me. Our relationship has been really good, and I've had no complaints.

Just a short time back he told me he had been trying to stop using but kept getting anxious, depressed and he couldn't function like that. He said he thought he needed help but he didnt know where to start and has a horrible fear of people finding out, especially at work.

He started bringing in stuff to read, and would start asking me to read things and ask my opinion. I was ok with that. Then once he asked me to go with him to a meeting (far away) because he wanted to see what it was like. I was actually curious myself, and I also wanted to support him.

So he has been doing this research type stuff on his own without my urging. But I have been reading some on my own these last couple weeks and I found this site. It's sort of addictive all the stories people share and I've never read so many individual stories.

Someone told me the other day, I think Dolly that it wasn't doing him any good with me just sitting around while he gets high. Like I should be doing something. Other stuff I've read seems to imply I an wrong for doing nothing to force his hand using our relationship as leverage. Like if I do this then he will.. Maybe find his bottom?

So yeah it's confusing because normally I've been leaving it all to him, or just this last little while willingly reading things he asks and commenting to him. But not trying to get him to change or stop; I didnt start that topic; he did. (I think it's really good decision!!)

Today I went through all of it. The stuff he has gathered. He has a lot, too much, it's like he is planning to write a thesis or something. I think he does need to stop now, and pick a treatment if he is serious. I can't pick it, I know that. But I can sort out the options with him and let him talk through them as part of his process because he likes to do that. I'm ok with that.

crazybabie

Thanks, for clarifying that his parents already know I missed that not sure how because you did say he has issues with them just different words.

dasiydoc

But that is just it, He doesnt display any unacceptable behavior. I like who he is. Like you said your husband caused all these financial problems, and he lied a lot. Those are things you can grab onto and hold him accountable for. But what do you do when there is nothing except the knowledge that your boyfriend uses. But what I am realizing is he will eventually get worse like your husband if he doesnt get help and stop. And if he gets worse, things will start to happen. Ive always told myself that if it started I would end it with him, but now I worry that will be very hard to do. at least recognizing this is progress on my part.

dasiydoc

To me this is more of an ethical question that one of codependency. My boyfriends actions are not mine, and Im not responsible for what he does. From a legal standpoint, there could be consequences to me in certain situations, but we don’t live together so Im not allowing drugs to reside in my home, if he carries them in they are on his person & I don’t search my guests for contraband. We don’t share transportation so nothing gets left in my car accidentally. I have never gone on a drug run with him, or anything like this. I have been in the car with him and there were times he was probably carrying drugs, possibly he has also been high when driving the car I was in but this would have been without my knowledge. Since Ive been aware of his use, and we do openly talk of it if need be, Ive asked him not to drive when we are together if he is under the influence. Its sort of an honor system obviously, but it seems to work. He will say ‘you drive’, toss me his keys, or just walk to the passenger door. It doesn’t happen all that often though. Usually he uses at night after he is home, or sometimes while he is at work. Sometimes I do feel guilty that I know about this, because it could affect his judgment, but again its on him to make those decisions.

dasiydoc

Thank you everyone for your replies. I am confused !! So I think it is best that I sort of stop and let myself think before I take any action.

Maybe I am wrong about involving is parents. I would like to work with them if necessary to help him but maybe only if they come to me would be better? , and maybe it is wrong to try to manipulate him by using our relationship. If I get to the point of wanting to end it, then it should be ONLY because it is a choice I make for myself.

At least in my confused state this is what Im thinking.

crazybabie

Daisy, now that I realize his parents know the only harm I see in trying an intervention is him getting mad at you how would you handle that you don't have to reply here.
If they agree will you be able to hold up your end on whatever your boundaries will be?

We always need to say what we mean and mean what we say I am guilty of NOT doing that.

dasiydoc

Thank you Crazybaby.
what my boyfriend realizes is that he needs to go beyond just stopping. He knows he started using because he wanted to avoid things in life. I think this is where he (and me too) sort of think that it might be best to tackle that type of stuff with a doctor who could really dig into it. But I do agree that I think some type of group setting would be good for him. He is afraid he will somehow run across someone that knows him, or just recognizes him from work and then they will tell someone else or something. It could happen that way so it is hard to totally tell him he is being ridiculous.

It took your husband a long time to progress though didnt it? I have wondered about that part of it, and there doesnt seem to be a golden rule. Some people it takes months, others years, and others never really progress beyond a certain point. At least from what I have sort of gathered. It gets sort of overwhelming because there is a lot of bits and pieces of information when you read, and its hard for me to put it all together.

dasiydoc

Thats one thing Im grateful for this site for. I am realizing that emotionally things are not going to be as easy as I thought whatever I do. Right now it would be hard to enforce that boundary, so I know Im in deeper than I wanted to admit.

LoveMeNow

If your bf has been using your entire relationship, how do you know if you really like him or him on drugs??

Again, all addicts lie when in active addiction. They lie to themselves as well. Its part of the disease....to protect and sustain it.