Freedom1990

Vaya, all I can say is my heart hurts for you. I care very much. Sending hugs of support.

suki44883

For a long time, my daughter had me convinced that she suffered from some form of mental illness. We got her on SSI because she had severe social anxiety and her history of visits to doctors for cutting, etc. was the proof they needed to approve her. Through MHMR, she saw a psychiatrist who put her on several different medications for this or that. She was diagnosed with one thing then another, always given more meds. It became a huge circle and she wasn't getting any better. In fact, she was getting worse and that's when all the suicide attempts began.

When I made her leave, she stopped taking all her meds. Now, I don't for one moment suggest that anyone just abruptly stop taking meds, but she did. She began to get better, forced herself to interact with people as a part of daily life, got a job and began to realize that her life won't get better unless SHE makes it better. In other words, she decided to grow up. That's pretty much all her problem was. She didn't have mental illness. She just didn't want to have to grow up, get a job, take on responsibility and give up having everything done for her. I say all of that to say this...it's not always mental illness. Sometimes they are just too lazy to grow up and become responsible citizens...until they are forced to.

treadingwater

I think as parents we are all so worried of the out come of what will happen to our kids if we put our foot down and even kick them out of the house.
My heart feels for what you are going through with your son, but you need to put your foot down. Your son is manipulating you to the max to get his way. He is using every trick in the book (that comes naturally for addicts).
My husband and I have been dealing with a similar situation with our 22 year old son. He had been using since his teen years drinking, pot, xanax, dxm....our wake up call came when he was charged with under age drinking and so it has been a nightmare ever since with a major step up to hard core iv drug use.
For the longest time we fought to keep him in treatment. We shipped him off for months at a time. He'd come back home and do outpatient and slowly things would start to go down hill again.
The downside was all these years of helping him (so we thought) has only allowed him the opportunity to progess further into his drug addiction. OUR LOVE FOR OUR SON HAS MADE HIM WORSE.
For some reason he believes we our responsible to take care of him since we our his parents.
We have heard the threats too. The if I die threats or you'd rather me die?....And yes that is our ultimate fear.
The bottom line is what we think we our doing for our kids is not helping them. The protecting is only prolonging the enevidable.

We finally kicked him out early this spring. He's been in and out of rehab...halfway houses etc...of course we our financing that.
He had a good run of almost 100 days clean then boom he just threw in the towel.
He said he could no longer live clean, it was just too hard. Bottom line he said he did not care if it killed him.
He only wants our help to put a roof over his head and food in his stomach.
As you know hearing this from someone you love hurts deeply, we would do just about anything to help him and we have. We are at a point where we can not keep doing this and yes it is damn scary. My gut is in knots wondering where this will lead. I pray for my son 24/7.

Earlier this week he was put out of his 3/4 house for breaking curfew. I'm not sure if that is the entire story. He texted me on Wed. saying they were willing to let him back. As far as we know he did not go back and we have not heard from him and it's Saturday afternoon. His cell phone is no longer working and...we don't know where he is. He has no money...my anxiety level is about to hit the roof.
I keep praying for peace. Why is it that we stress more than they do?
Utimately, myself included, we need to accept their decision to use and allow the consequences to happen, even in death. Yes, that is so hard to accept.... I can't believe how they could choose this road. I know it's the drug hold but I still don't understand. I SO WANT TO SAVE MY CHILD!

I can not tell you what to do as a parent, however I wish that my husband and I would have listened and heeded the advice of others that have walked this road sooner. I know now that we just did not understand how big this addiction thing was. Oh MY GOD!!!

I will tell you we have a 24 year old, middle son serving time in prison for a very poor decison, he and a few of his friends were a party to a crime. Now this was and is still devastating for us. He has more than learned his lesson.
I know your fear is that your son could end up in prison, but I will tell you there are plenty of parents that will tell you it is better than death. Jail or prison could save your son's life.
I know you want to spare your son of all his negative choices.
All we parents want is for our kids to be happy...my husband and I would have never dreamed this would be the road we are on with our kids.

I read a good book a while back called "Setting Boundaries with Your Adult Children" by Allison Bottke

May the Lord give us the wisdom and strength to walk this road.

Freedom1990

I think this bears repeating. Thank you for sharing that, Suki!

fourmaggie

i hear a mother making excuses for her son....enabling....

IF YOU DONT CHANGE, HE WONT CHANGE...period

Ann

I am one of those mama's who too was frozen in fear and just could not do what I really needed to do, Vaya. I too feared yet another overdose, I feared suicide, I feared death by cop or death by dealer-done-wrong. The thing is, I have no power over death nor do I have any power over my son's addiction. I am truly powerless over all of that. So I needed to empower myself back to sanity or die.

What helped me was CoDA (Codependents Anonymous), a 12-step program similar to Al-anon and Nar-anon. I found my balance there. I found people there who did not judge me ever but who understood because they had been where I was and they shared with me what had worked for them.

I saw what they had, peace and even joy in their lives, and decided that I wanted it too. I felt like I needed to get busy living or get busy dying, like the Shawshank Redemption saying.

Yes, it took courage, it took finding some faith, and then it took one small step at a time moving forward. I have never looked back.

Today my son is still lost in his addiction, and I pray for him each morning and give his care to God. If I had not found recovery I am certain that I would be dead by now and he would still be stuck in his addiction. I chose to live, and I live well. I have what those who went before me promised I could have...serenity.

Please know you are not alone. Please try some meetings and see if you too don't find something worth living for...a life filled with joy and peace. I promise you that you can have it too.

Hugs

vaya

I am sure many of you know what you are talking about and I appreciate your concern,suggestions, and candor. I know you are just trying to help. However, I don't think you should be so demanding in telling someone else what they should to. It doesn't work with addicts and it doesn't work with people who may be codependent or too close to the addict. I do appreciate hearing how you have dealt with addicted children and loved ones but you cannot force someone to do something. This is supposed to be a program of sharing your experience, strength, and hope. That's all you can do and let others draw their own conclusions.
I did go to an Alanon meeting and I have been to Family Anonymous meetings tool Only once did I hear I should kick my son out of the house. At the Alanon meeting I attended yesterday I was told should is a 4 letter word and that they recommend not doing anything drastic for at least a year. the messages I have hear there is about working on oneself, which doesn't necessarily mean indulging in a spa or hobby, but rather working the steps and learning not to let the addict/alcoholic cause us to feel anger/anxiety/resentment and not to do for them what they can do for themselves.

I really gotta say that some of you really are a turn off and not because I don't like what I hear. I know I have to make some decisions. i need time to reflect, decide what I can and won't live with and to follow through on consequences I say I will do, ie calling the PET team. Yeah, it's a messed up situation. I didn't know what I was in for when I let my son come live with me. I wasn't there when he started shooting heroin. I did kick him out before, at the behest of people here. Yes, my life is definitely more peaceful without both of my children here, but, now I have to find how I can continue to move them to independence. It's not just about dealing with addiction. It's also about dealing with adult/young adult children, which I wasn't ready for. The natural progression of things was interupted when my ex stole the children to save child support. then he abandoned them and threw them out.
Look, I appreciate your points of view, but some of you are just too forceful. You cannont effect change that way and I don't think that's what self recovery in this process is about.

vaya

Thank you, Ann. that's more like it.

Ann

Vaya, I know how you feel because I was you. Many people tried to help me, some by being stern, some by being mean, and some by sharing with me what worked for them...those were the ones I listened to and followed. I wanted what they had and was willing to do whatever I had to do to get it.

My prayers go out for you and your son. Please know that we are here to support you and walk with you as you face that terrible fear. One day you too will find the courage to do whatever is right for you. And whether we agree with your choices or timing or methods, we are all here to walk with you on this journey of recovery.

Hugs

chicory

I believe she is making excuses for him , in order for her continued support of him to be hopefully more "acceptable" to some of the hard noses on this forum. I used to fear the criticism here and was guilty of trying to stay under that hyper-vigilant radar . She may not be doing what someone else would, but have we all done what we should in the perfect timeline, in our lives? If so, this forum would be empty, i figure.

I totally understand Vaya. I do believe that there is hope. I understand your fear. you and i are quite a bit alike in our fears and in our inability to make the best decisions. That is why we are here, to get help, to get strength. it is a scary and lonely situation. I dont drink to escape , tho my son is not using, or causing problems at this time. if he were using, I am sure my world would be turned upside down. I dont know how some parents survive what they have.
i do know that we cannot let ourselves be abused. And that you and I appear to be vulnerable to manipulation, when some are much stronger.
nar - anon, al- anon, those are two valuable resources. it would take your focus off of him, and let you begin to find healing for yourself. what your son does with his life is his choice, but we dont have to participate, or make it easier on him. we need help, in order to deal with our respective situations. i cant do it by myself. and I can see that you know you need help too.
sending prayers for answers for you,
chicory

vaya

Thank you Ann and Chicory, and many others too. Thank you for understanding that i do have to come to this in my own time. I am beginning to focus more on myself and what I can and cannot tolerate. I have been through a lot of hardI may time over the last 5 years and it is still a struggle financially and other ways for me. I've been so busy reeling from everything, before I could stop and say, is this what I want. Yes I wanted to rescue my children and be there for them again, but I never thought it would turn into this. I may have to start with small steps, such as sticking to my word to call the PET team when my AS is out of control/hurting himself, threatening, etc. I haven't really followed through as I said i would. I feel I need to start with that as well as learn to detach and not hound him or harp on him and stand back and let him suffer the consequences of his choices. I have improved in not giving him money when he is broke. I have occassionally given him a dollar or two for the bus, but am making myself hold back. He can walk, even if it tires him out. He is not that disabled.
I am sure this would be easier to deal with if I didn't live in one room with my two sons. We would all have that much more space if I, or they, had a space to retreat to. In some ways, maybe this is better because everyone's issues are out there to be seen.
Thankyou. I am confident in myself to find my own way and determine what I will and will not do. I know I do not want to rush into a decision just because others here tell me I should. That is not good for my growth either. I am trying to find a balance in things and decide upon my limits. It is not easy. However, deep down, I know I am becoming more concerned about my life and well being than letting my son's issues keep me from doing what I need and want to do.

chicory

sometimes baby steps are all we can do, but just keep trying to go in the right direction . As they say, just do the next right thing.
i know it is hard. There are a lot of good people here who have been where you are, but all situations are different, and there is no cookie cutter solution.
i also contacted mental health, and they did not encourage me to throw my son out, tho many, many here insisted that it is the only way. I know that it has helped many to be put out on their own, to face their choices. it seems to wake them up a bit, and takes away the steam from their hissy fit. but if being homeless cured everyone, there would be no homeless.
perhaps calling the pet team on your son when he throws his anger around, and hurts his self, would make him think about doing it again, if he is doing it to manipulate you. and none of us know whether he has mental problems or not. that is not for any of us to tell you. might make him see that you have limits, and that if he wants help, he has to conform and not hurt others . if that does not work, perhaps he needs to be put somewhere for a while, so he can get help.
you are right, you have to do it when you are ready, tho it most likely never be the comfortable thing to do. as someone told me, sometimes the right thing is the hardest thing to do.

I surely hope you find what you need to do, in order to take care of yourself. prayers for your sons, too.
chicory

loveforhorses

Vaya, I am not the mother of an addict so I can't even imagine what you and other parents are going through when their child is addicted. My hear goes out to you for the obvious pain you are in. I think you have to do what is right for you and your child regardless of what others think. I do truely believe from your posts that you and your sons need help. Professional help. It sounds like your son does need and evaluation and serious counseling however if he is using then the counseling probably wont be that affective do to the chemicals in his brain currently.
I wish you all the luck in the world and my prayers go out to you and your family. Please take care of you first. One thing I have learned is that if I dont take care of me and keep me healthy then I am in no condition to care for anyone else.

outtolunch

Your initial posts here began about 13 months ago. The threads are interchangable, except for the 13 month difference.

Our children are the same age. Prior to her involvement with drugs, she was a cutter, hair puller, face slapper ( her own, not mine), eating disorder and more diagnosed disorders than you could shake a stick at. Suicide ideation was constant. By 19 she had discovered her DOC, heroin.

I almost bankrupted myself financially, emotionally and physically trying to beat her addiction. It eventually came down to saving or killing myself, trying to safe her.

I had to remind myself constantly that by giving her a safe place to land I was enabling her addiction and premature death. My journey towards healing began when I made it clear she was no longer welcome in my home. I did not do so out of or in anger. I never went "no contact" and would occasionally buy her a sandwhich.

Her heroin buds were dropping like flies, either prison or OD. I continue to think something clicked within her and she began using some of the tools she acquired in rehab. She saved herself and she did it for herself.

dorton

Vaya, I'm truely sorry that you feel the people on this site are being demanding of you. I felt that way once also. But I learned to accept they the people here only want to help me. These are people who have no idea who you are, they are complete strangers to you and your sons yet they are all only concerned with your safety and well being. Please take the advice you find on this site for what it is intended to be which is only to help you. As I said I once was a person who hated hearing the things people said on this site, and I still feel that at times it is harsh, but I have learned more from the people on this site than I have any meeting I have been too. You have to do what is right for you. The last time I had to face asking my son to leave I was surprised to find that I felt at ease with that decision as I now feel that I have done everything in my power to help him get better. When I told him that he truely believed me and things have gotten better since then. No one can get you to that point any faster than you are ready. We all know that but please be patient with us as well as we feel great frustration with watching someone else go through what we have been through and only want to ease the pain for you that we have felt.
As I read this I realize I have made it sound as if I speak for everyone on this site, and of course I can only speak for myself. I'm sorry if that offends anyone.

suki44883

I shared my experience with a situation similar to yours. I'm sorry if you took that as trying to push you to do something you aren't ready to do. You will be ready when you are ready. I put up with my daughters crap for over 4 years, but once she became an adult in the eyes of the law, I knew I didn't have to take it anymore. I hit my bottom and you will too...when you are ready.

I shared my story, which wasn't easy for me to do, but I had hopes you would see the similarities. Again, sorry if you took it as being pushy.

treadingwater

Vaya...I truly apologize if I said anything to offend you. I want you to know that is definitely not where my heart was or is at. I understand you are struggling with being alone and trying to raise your children. I can not even imagine...it makes it all the more harder. I hope you have family/friends to lean on or some type of support.
Going through the normal rigors of child rearing can be hard let alone having to handle a curve ball.
I am sorry that your ex has dumped this all on you. You are truly dealing with a lot.
Just know that many of us on this forum respond to you in a protective manor. We understand what you are going through as a parent and it's hard to see another mom hurting the way we have/ or are hurting.
There is this unspoken bond that is here even though we do not know each other we can identify with the pain of having a child addicted to drugs.
I think to we are all at different levels in dealing with our child's addiction...you will see that by how we all respond.
Please do not take it personally...like you said just go at your own pace.
There is a lot of advice and things that I read in the beginning that I thought were pretty darn hardcore but as time has passed I have started to change my thinking and now I am starting to understand what could drive a parent to do some of the things they do.
You are so right when you talk about doing what you are comfortable with.
I know sometimes I'm afraid to put my foot down or say certain things, that I will drive my son away or some how push him over the edge. I need to keep reminding myself I can't be thinking like that. I am trying to save my son's life.

I'm not a huge Dr. Phil fan but I must say he has had some exxcellent shows on intervention.

Again, if I said anything to offend you I am sorry.

kmangel

I can see the reasoning behind the people here encouraging that the addict be on his/her own to fight their battles themselves, facing the consequences of their choices, rather than in a family situation breaking all the boundaries the family has in place and causing havoc. It really is the wisest choice for many families of addicted loved ones.

I didn't have to throw my addicted son out of my home because he wasn't living at home nor the same state as my husband and I when he got addicted. I'm glad now in retrospect we lived so far from him, because his father and I were not around to see his decline into addiction and to bail him out which I'm sure would have happened if he lived closer to us or with us. We only just found out about his addiction two months ago--four years after he began using drugs. All the anguish you are going through with an addicted son we were spared. My son's girlfriend went through anguish, though, as they lived together. She got to experience what it is like to live with an active addict and she walked away from the situation two months ago. She's an addict herself, so yet to be free. She has her own demons to dispense with.

Now my husband and I are involved with a recovering addict. He is living at home with us. Many people here advised us not to let him move in with us, but we are hoping for the best for our son and for us with him living at home. It's not been easy with a recovering addict in the home but we seem to be moving forward, with baby steps. Maybe I'll change my opinion as we move into the future, but for now we will continue with our son living at home. My goal is to get him out on his own as soon as possible. That's where he ultimately belongs.

outtolunch

Back when, I did not infer harshness. Rather, I assumed some posters were confused. You see, they were talking about my recovery. Did they not know I was the sane one and not an addict? Did they not know I was different and would never give up?

I took Ann's suggestion and began reading- 100's-1000's of posts.I realized my daughter was doing what addicts do and I was doing what codependents do. We were both whacked. At least some of my daughter's whack was attributed to substances. What the heck was my problem given I do not drink or do drugs, sans an occasional asprin?

The light bulb eventually went on. My self esteem/worth had become tied to an outcome I had no control over. The enemy was not heroin. It was my big fat ego. The more into it my daughter got, the more I felt responsible and compelled to act cause doing something was better than doing nothing, eh?

The more I focused on my daughter, the less I focused on myself- rather convenient, eh. I still cannot put into words my gratefulness for those who walked this path before me.

When you let go- really let go, it is with sadness, not anger. When you really let go, you are taking your ego out of it.

fourmaggie

I dont apologize for what i said... i still mean it....and this is going on for more than 5 years...hummmm

what no one here goes to AL ANON regularly? you know the saying "take what you want and leave the rest"....

5 years? and AL ANON?, should have learned something by now....and made more then baby steps...

just my 2cents