Nina Kay

Hi Vaya. I am also the Mother of an addict son. I have always been an enabler. I understand how you feel about alot of it. The one thing that I do know from your posts is that your son is definitely using drugs. Which drugs he is using really doesn't matter. They are altering his brain. You cannot reason with someone who's brain is altered by drugs no matter how hard you try. It's futile to try. It's like hitting your head against a brick wall, all you'll get is a bad headache & the brick wall still won't move. It also sounds like he's progressing rapidly with these rages when he doesn't get his way & blaming you for any of it is a manipulative tactic that all addicts use. When you give him any money at all, you are throwing it in the wind. It doesn't help him at all & it is really hurting you.
Also I know from alot of experience that you cannot help him save the money to get to move out. It'll never ever work. I'm sorry to say that to you, but the sooner you accept that, the less pain you'll have to go through. You cannot help him at all. He has to help himself. All you can do is love him & no matter what he says in the future to hurt you, he knows that you love him. Please think about getting him out of your house as soon as you possible can. As for jail, I used to be traumatized by the thought of my son going to jail, but after all these years & all of the trauma that we have endured because of my son's addiction & all of the horrible things that he has put himself through time & time again, I know now that jail is one of the best things that can happen to him as long as he is an active addict. There is so much more that I could say to you from my own experience, but it would take too long to say it all here & you may not be ready to accept what I'm trying to tell you yet anyway. I just hope that you will let him go while there are some opportunities to with less pain than there might be later if you keep trying to help someone you can't help or fix. I'm so very sorry for your pain & I do understand it. **************{Understanding Hugs}}}}}}}}

vaya

You're right. He is using something that alters his brain and I can't reach him. He is depending on it to stay away from heroin, but he is still addicted to it.

I'm so scared he is on the edge of using heroin again and I do wish there's something I can do to keep him from crossing that line. Maybe I've been trying to hard to get him to work his program, reach out to others, read, get a sponsor. Maybe I have been in his fact too much about his using spice and obsessing on it. He says that's what he hates, my constant monitoring. when he goes in the bathroom for extended times I've been asking him to come out, thinking I could keep him from smoking the spice. Is this behavior co-dependent on my part?

In my efforts to help him calm down last night I think I only escalated his behavior. I was so sure I could reach him somehow. I should have just left and gone for a walk rather than engage with him. As long as I was there he would continue to rant on and hurt himself to try and get me to give him money.

this was the first week I held my ground about not giving him more than necessary for the bus. I hate being in this position of having to make him feel the consequences of his actions for spending all of his GR money in one week. I thought he would come around, but it just makes him angrier.

I know it's getting harder for him and for me to be here if he keeps smoking spice and acting this way. I just wish something could be done, other than his leaving. I'm so afraid he will wind up staying with his heroin using friends and wind up using heroin again.

Justfor1

Has he tried to get the out-patient rehab place to provide him with bus tokens? Usually they provide a token to get there & back. Then you would not have to be giving him money.

Eddiebuckle

Vaya, you are doing what comes naturally to protect your son, but it seems clear that you are trying to control the outcome, which is the definition of codependent behavior. Your son IS using, in your house, against the rules of his program, and the money he demands should make all of that undeniable.

He is not in recovery, he is in denial, which is why it's everyone else's fault but his own. You cannot prevent his consequences, you can only add your own by allowing him to stay at your home.

I'm sorry but that's my opinion. I'm an alcoholic, and until I saw the light there was nothing that was going to change the path I was on. Your son doesn't seem to be anywhere near that point.

vaya

Just for 1...yes, he has tried to get tokens but they do not always have them. I have tried to contact them to find out what they do but cannot get through to anyone. Thank you.

Perhaps I will buy some tokens for him so, at least it takes the money equation down. I thought about buying a bus pass, but to be honest, I'm afraid he might sell it. I can get 13 bus rides for the price of 12 (12.00).

I just hate that this is all on me. I had no idea what was involved when the judge ordered outpatient for him and his lawyer wouldn't return my calls to tell me about it. It's so frustrating.

suki44883

Vaya, you can call the clerk for the judge and explain what is going on. You can tell them that him staying with you is not working out and you want him out. I really fear for your safety, vaya. Jail just might be the best place for him at this point. If he is going to continue using, whether it's spice or anything else, he won't be able to work for long, if at all. This situation isn't going to change unless you change it. I really hope you call.

keepinon

YES..it is codependant to try to stop the behavior of another grown person.AND it doesn't work.

atalose

vaya,

There is no doubt what’s so ever that you love your son and that you want the best for him and for him be off drugs.

A long time ago on here I learned that addicts don’t have relationships – they take hostages.

The only relationship your son is capable of having right now is the one with his addiction.

TUFF LOVE seems to be the avenue you need to pursue, not only for him but for yourself as well. Stop cushioning his fall, allow him to experience the natural consequences of his actions.

He can’t get high in jail and he can’t cut himself in jail……

Justfor1

He can’t get high in jail and he can’t cut himself in jail…[/QUOTE]

Drugs are widely available in jail/prison. An addict can continue to use if they want. Vaya, the system is so overwhelmed with drug offenders that sometimes it takes repeated "dirty drug tests" to violate a probation type situation. I'm afraid that if the costs of this spice drug is high that he will eventually relapse to heroin. He might think if he is spending big bucks on "spice" than he mine as well buy heroin.

vaya

Thank you all. I don't fear for my safety with my son. I do know he is in a bad space using the spice. It is warping his thinking. I do need to think about other consequences to me, like my neighbor threatening to call the police or get me evicted if my son and I keep fighting.(She really takes the extreme reaction, but she's entitled to her peace, even if she and her partying friends constantly disturb mine.) It is good for my son to know that he (and his brother) need to stop the emotional outbursts and yelling or it threatens all our home and mine.

As for jail....actually there are a lot of drugs on jail, legal and illegal and they don't drug test you there. In the drug court custody program he said everyone was smoking weed. It will restrict his freedom, but it won't really teach him as much as you think. For him prison is the path they'll put him on, not county jail. Like the DA said in court, "he'll get more heroin in prison then he'll get out on the street".

I will consider what you say, but must do it in my own way and time, depending on how things go in the next few days or week. He is on edge and is using something to keep him from using the other drug which is not ok. He is also bored to death not being able to work or go to school. It's not a great program, but it does deter some problems by using a system of negative reinforcement. He has to want to recover, I know. May you think this is totally codie, but at least he didn't run out last night and shoot heroin. He called his girlfriend and is staying with her for a few days to get away from me and the situation. I think that shows some progress.

KNowing what really goes on in the streets and in jails and prisons I trust you'll better understand my dilemma here. If he does something out there in an act of desperation and makes more bad choices he'll wind up in jail anyway. I'm not sure I want to accelerate that just now without exploring other options first.

vaya

just for 1...I just posted that same thing. I too worry he may choose something cheaper. At least, for now, he's trying to stay away from those things and does go to groups and meetings and comply with the other program requirements. Yes, he needs to get real and want to recover. Unfortunately the program isn't that great, but it's free and he can choose to make use of the tools available there.

laurie6781

NA is free and it is GREAT!!!!! But ..................... the individual has to WANT recovery.

Doesn't sound like your son does and is just doing what he has to, to get the law off his back.

J M H O

Love and hugs,

Grnmtn1

Vaya- I am very new to all of this and am still a bit shaky on any advice, but what I've learned is that nomatter how much I want my loved one sober/clean, I can't make it happen. I can't love him into it, I can't deny him his "needs" into it, I can't force him into it- nothing. He has to want it at least as much as I do. Nomatter how many meetings I offer to take him to, books I buy, time spent in our "dry" healthy environment etc. can I convince him that he should get clean. It's taken me about 6 years to finally get this and I saw myself losing complete control of my own emotions and rational thoughts as he spiraled completely out of control.

I know you love your son and "tough love" will be one of the hardest things you will ever have to do. You will need to be ready for it and you have to do it on your time, but it may be the one thing that truly turns him around. In the process, you will be able to get your own sanity back again. Are you going to Al-Anon meetings? It sounds as if you need to do more for you and try to find your own happiness again because he appears to be doing whatever fuels his "needs" whether or not your "needs" are even considered.
Only you can control your own behavior and only he can control his own behavior. All the best to you.

outtolunch

He's either going to use heroin again or not. He's either going back too jail or not.There is nothing, absolutely nothing, you can do to cause or prevent this. You are not that powerful. None of us are.

Justfor1

Vaya, indeed the court run programs aren't the greatest. I am a recovered alcoholic/addict and currently have a family member using cocaine/heroin just released from prison & on parole. His parole officer is suppose to do weekly checks on him but in reality they've only checked on him twice in the past year. He was suppose to have random drug tests but never got them. He was suppose to be employed or seeking employment with proof but never did. His parole agent tells him he is doing good too. lol I guess my point is that your son being sent to prison will not necessarily help him. Could his girlfriend be a negative influence on him? Hopefully she is not a drug user. Take care