I need some serious help
Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: nowheresville
Posts: 872
Morning Glory,
(((((((((((((((Hugs to you and your son))))))))))))))
Is there anyway the hospital will hold him on the grounds he is a threat to himself or can you get a court order for that reason that the hospital can hold him until he is stabilized on his meds?
Ngaire
(((((((((((((((Hugs to you and your son))))))))))))))
Is there anyway the hospital will hold him on the grounds he is a threat to himself or can you get a court order for that reason that the hospital can hold him until he is stabilized on his meds?
Ngaire
One brief hour...
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Anywhere, USA
Posts: 1,412
(((Morning Glory)))-- I am so sorry that this is happening. I will say a prayer for both you and your son. I really hope he can be court ordered into treatment. I hope he finds some peace soon for both his and your sake.
To Life!
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 9,293
Your son can prevent the medical personal from speaking to you...
However, you CAN speak to the medical personal.
Having been on Welbutrin, I know a bit about it. It CAN cause aggitation and anxiety in some people. It is worth bringing up to the doctor.
Then, leave the outcome to the docs and your son. You can't control it...
Shalom!
However, you CAN speak to the medical personal.
Having been on Welbutrin, I know a bit about it. It CAN cause aggitation and anxiety in some people. It is worth bringing up to the doctor.
Then, leave the outcome to the docs and your son. You can't control it...
Shalom!
Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Starting over all over again
Posts: 4,426
Hey there MG,
Have a big (((((((((((((((( hug )))))))))))))))))))
I am so sorry that you are going thru this with your son. Your courage is awesome, and your ability to think clearly during the crisis is admirable. I'm glad your sone is being held.
As others have said, the 72hour hold is for evaluation purposes. During this time the shrink will determine if he will be a danger to himself upon release. It is important that you speak with the shrink and give them all the information you can to help them understand what is going on. Also contact his counselor, and any other professionals he's seen. They are not allowed to give _you_ any information, but they can certainly contact the hospital and give them information.
You have mentioned that he does well in jail. Make sure you tell the shrink that, as it shows that he benefits from a highly structured environmnet.
There is also the issue of available beds. Psych wards are usually full, so start now and contact the "Case management" office at the hospital where your son is. He has a case worker assigned to his case ( not a social worker ) who is responsible to see that all his paperwork is taken care of and that he is transfered to the right units within the hospital or to another hospital.
All of this is going to be very taxing on you. Who do you have with you in real life to be with you and be supportive of you?
As to what you are going to do when he gets out, I suggest you find a therapist in town that can give you that answer. Not about _you_ needing the therapist, but for you to be able to contact the therapist to guide you in dealing with your son. Am I making sense?
I am praying for you and your son.
Mike
Have a big (((((((((((((((( hug )))))))))))))))))))
I am so sorry that you are going thru this with your son. Your courage is awesome, and your ability to think clearly during the crisis is admirable. I'm glad your sone is being held.
As others have said, the 72hour hold is for evaluation purposes. During this time the shrink will determine if he will be a danger to himself upon release. It is important that you speak with the shrink and give them all the information you can to help them understand what is going on. Also contact his counselor, and any other professionals he's seen. They are not allowed to give _you_ any information, but they can certainly contact the hospital and give them information.
You have mentioned that he does well in jail. Make sure you tell the shrink that, as it shows that he benefits from a highly structured environmnet.
There is also the issue of available beds. Psych wards are usually full, so start now and contact the "Case management" office at the hospital where your son is. He has a case worker assigned to his case ( not a social worker ) who is responsible to see that all his paperwork is taken care of and that he is transfered to the right units within the hospital or to another hospital.
All of this is going to be very taxing on you. Who do you have with you in real life to be with you and be supportive of you?
As to what you are going to do when he gets out, I suggest you find a therapist in town that can give you that answer. Not about _you_ needing the therapist, but for you to be able to contact the therapist to guide you in dealing with your son. Am I making sense?
I am praying for you and your son.
Mike
On a tear
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Volcano Country!
Posts: 3,221
MG...sorry I got in here late.
I do think you were working your program... there is a fine line between letting an addict/alcoholic/mentally ill person find their own natural bottom.... and letting them die. Perhaps MY program isn't so strong, but a dead addict cannot find recovery.
Suicidal tendencies, especially in young people, has been connected to using some anti depressants... according to news articles I've read. I am glad you will be calling his counselor.
I am so sorry you are going through this, you KNOW you don't deserve it... don't you?
((((((MG)))))))
((((((MG's Son))))))
Please know your HP is with you on this one, as is your son's HP. Trust Him to get you where you need to be. Wish I could stop by and get a latte with ya, MG. And just sit for a bit. Do you have a sponsor in a recovery program? Now might be a good time to consider getting one, or giving yours a call.
I wish you the best.
I do think you were working your program... there is a fine line between letting an addict/alcoholic/mentally ill person find their own natural bottom.... and letting them die. Perhaps MY program isn't so strong, but a dead addict cannot find recovery.
Suicidal tendencies, especially in young people, has been connected to using some anti depressants... according to news articles I've read. I am glad you will be calling his counselor.
I am so sorry you are going through this, you KNOW you don't deserve it... don't you?
((((((MG)))))))
((((((MG's Son))))))
Please know your HP is with you on this one, as is your son's HP. Trust Him to get you where you need to be. Wish I could stop by and get a latte with ya, MG. And just sit for a bit. Do you have a sponsor in a recovery program? Now might be a good time to consider getting one, or giving yours a call.
I wish you the best.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 5,075
Morning Glory
Hope the court order route works out, too. Both you and your son are in a lot of pain right now. I pray that some peace is in the future for both of you. Try to remember to take it one day at a time. For today, he is somewhere safe being taken care of.
((()))
Hope the court order route works out, too. Both you and your son are in a lot of pain right now. I pray that some peace is in the future for both of you. Try to remember to take it one day at a time. For today, he is somewhere safe being taken care of.
((()))
Administrator
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: CA
Posts: 10,681
Thank you all so much for you support.
They called this morning and tried to release him and I talked them into keeping him. Of course the beds are all full so they don't know where they are going to send him.
I'm going to make myself a counseling appointment tomorrow to try to get some help with this. He is a high risk of suicide, but at the same time he is holding me hostage emotionally because he won't get the help he needs. That can't continue either. The only option I can see is to let go and he either dies or gets help on his own. That's not a very good option right now because he won't get help. I'm going to start logging all the dates and times he threatens suicide so I have something to take to court if it comes to that.
I've faced the fact that his alcoholism can kill him and I'm powerless to do anything. I have not been able to face the suicide threats in the same way. I was working on that yesterday before all this happened. I didn't get very far.
They called this morning and tried to release him and I talked them into keeping him. Of course the beds are all full so they don't know where they are going to send him.
I'm going to make myself a counseling appointment tomorrow to try to get some help with this. He is a high risk of suicide, but at the same time he is holding me hostage emotionally because he won't get the help he needs. That can't continue either. The only option I can see is to let go and he either dies or gets help on his own. That's not a very good option right now because he won't get help. I'm going to start logging all the dates and times he threatens suicide so I have something to take to court if it comes to that.
I've faced the fact that his alcoholism can kill him and I'm powerless to do anything. I have not been able to face the suicide threats in the same way. I was working on that yesterday before all this happened. I didn't get very far.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: novato, ca
Posts: 181
Of course, "one remark about money" didn't cause his suicidal behavior. His mixed up brain chemistry is responsible for that, not you. If you haven't mentioned all the medication your son is taking to the doctors as well as the alcohol, please do. I thought paxil and welbutrin were for similar problems and I don't know why someone would be taking both at the same time but I'm certainly no expert. Unfortunately, mental instability and an unstable life can be a difficult cycle to break. One can only get better if the other does but which one will happen first, chicken or egg.
The more you can get him in "the system" the more services will be available to him. It sounds like he has a real disability. Does he get SSI and medi-cal? If not, the more you can get him into hospital, crisis centers, counseling, etc, the stronger case you'll have for his getting SSI and medi-cal. And if he has SSI and medi-cal, that might help him get more services.
I know how this all works because I helped a young friend with the process many years ago. He actually got SSI on the first attempt, with no appeal because I went in with him and showed them all the documentation I'd collected from all the emergency situations I'd helped him through. I knew him when he was a student at a school I'd worked for. When he moved to my area, he contacted me whenever he needed help. Once he got on the right medication, he was a lot better.
The more you can get him in "the system" the more services will be available to him. It sounds like he has a real disability. Does he get SSI and medi-cal? If not, the more you can get him into hospital, crisis centers, counseling, etc, the stronger case you'll have for his getting SSI and medi-cal. And if he has SSI and medi-cal, that might help him get more services.
I know how this all works because I helped a young friend with the process many years ago. He actually got SSI on the first attempt, with no appeal because I went in with him and showed them all the documentation I'd collected from all the emergency situations I'd helped him through. I knew him when he was a student at a school I'd worked for. When he moved to my area, he contacted me whenever he needed help. Once he got on the right medication, he was a lot better.
Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: over yonder
Posts: 1,548
MG, BIG HUGS, This must be the most horrible thing anyone could go through.
I am one that searches for all info I can find, have you called the Poison Control and talked to one of their pharmacist's?? ( # is 1-800-222-1222) to ask about Paxil and Welbutrin seperately, then used together, then those plus alcohol. The pharmisists I get are so nice, none have asked why I wanted to know, they give info on Rx's and what not to take with what.
Webuterin, one pill caused me to feel I would fly apart. Later I asked my Dr. if I imagined that, she said, "no! one pill CAN do that to some people."
I'd rather have shock treatments, I had mild treatments once for a twitch, and I think they are safer now, but I don't know if could be done when alcohol involved.
If you think you have a good Dr. have you given him name and addressess of ever hospital and clinic where he has been treated and ask them to get your son to sign releases for his records be sent to this Dr. Then he would have everything to pass with his records to wherever, if he has to be committed.
Has there been suicides on either side in the famiy, did he have a close friend or class mate that died this way??
I am sure you are wiser than I, but just suggestions.
I am so sorry you and your son have to go through this .
I am one that searches for all info I can find, have you called the Poison Control and talked to one of their pharmacist's?? ( # is 1-800-222-1222) to ask about Paxil and Welbutrin seperately, then used together, then those plus alcohol. The pharmisists I get are so nice, none have asked why I wanted to know, they give info on Rx's and what not to take with what.
Webuterin, one pill caused me to feel I would fly apart. Later I asked my Dr. if I imagined that, she said, "no! one pill CAN do that to some people."
I'd rather have shock treatments, I had mild treatments once for a twitch, and I think they are safer now, but I don't know if could be done when alcohol involved.
If you think you have a good Dr. have you given him name and addressess of ever hospital and clinic where he has been treated and ask them to get your son to sign releases for his records be sent to this Dr. Then he would have everything to pass with his records to wherever, if he has to be committed.
Has there been suicides on either side in the famiy, did he have a close friend or class mate that died this way??
I am sure you are wiser than I, but just suggestions.
I am so sorry you and your son have to go through this .
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Arizona
Posts: 318
it is hard to get approved for SSI or disability on the first try, i have been told it is the social security's way of "weaning" out those who may not really need it. However it is possible. I was approved for SSI the first time I applied. I was only on it for about 1 to 1 1/2 years and then was able to return to work full time.
you mention that you have been paying for him to have insurance. in my expierence, you actually get MORE help when you don't have insurance and our on medicaid. when i had private insurance, the amount of therapy visit was very limited, and when i needed to be hospitalized i had to be sent 3 or 4 hours away. and then the insurance would usually only allow a few days at a time.
when i was court ordered to treatment, i then had medicaid. i was able to stay at the local hospital, and it was for as long as it was needed. (thus the 6 and 8 week stays).
if you son would qualify for medicaid, it may be worth looking into. also, since your son had been drinking when he took those pills, they likely don't take the overdose as seriously as they would if he hadn't been drinking. They likely feel that once he is sober he will no longer be in danager of harming himself. not that that may be true, but it may explain why they are wanting to release him so quickly.
i thinking looking into therapy or a counselor for you is a great idea, and i hope you are able to see someone right away. take care!!!
you mention that you have been paying for him to have insurance. in my expierence, you actually get MORE help when you don't have insurance and our on medicaid. when i had private insurance, the amount of therapy visit was very limited, and when i needed to be hospitalized i had to be sent 3 or 4 hours away. and then the insurance would usually only allow a few days at a time.
when i was court ordered to treatment, i then had medicaid. i was able to stay at the local hospital, and it was for as long as it was needed. (thus the 6 and 8 week stays).
if you son would qualify for medicaid, it may be worth looking into. also, since your son had been drinking when he took those pills, they likely don't take the overdose as seriously as they would if he hadn't been drinking. They likely feel that once he is sober he will no longer be in danager of harming himself. not that that may be true, but it may explain why they are wanting to release him so quickly.
i thinking looking into therapy or a counselor for you is a great idea, and i hope you are able to see someone right away. take care!!!
Administrator
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: CA
Posts: 10,681
Clancy, My son's father committed suicide. My son also went through severe abuse as a child by someone who rented a room from me. I think he is starting to deal with some of that and it's overwhelming for him. We didn't know the abuse happened until a couple of years ago when my daughter remembered all of it.
I agree that Medicaid is better. I work with clients who have it and they get everything they need. I think the doctors actually order more tests because that's the way they make money with Medicaid.
Of course the only thing missing in all of this is my son's cooperation. I've mentioned SSI and he refuses. That kind of assistance is a sign of weakness to him. Once he gets transfered I'm going to ask for a family meeting before he is released to talk about some of these things with their assistance.
I agree that Medicaid is better. I work with clients who have it and they get everything they need. I think the doctors actually order more tests because that's the way they make money with Medicaid.
Of course the only thing missing in all of this is my son's cooperation. I've mentioned SSI and he refuses. That kind of assistance is a sign of weakness to him. Once he gets transfered I'm going to ask for a family meeting before he is released to talk about some of these things with their assistance.
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