ilovebdj

Don't wait and see. If your parents have tried the "no drinking" rule with him before and failed, chances are it will fail again. Give him the option of no options. It might save his life.

I laugh whenever I hear an alcoholic say they don't believe in the 12 steps. When did they get clear headed enough to go to a few meetings and determine this? Probably never. Those that don't understand also will find excuses to not help themselves.

If however you and your family won't go to Al-Anon, there are agnostic/humanistic AA groups. I have a couple different types of 12 steps on here as well. PM me and I'll send them if you want. Much luck and love.

denny57

Welcome absentx

I know and understand what you are going through is very tough. I think it's true we need to "get on with our lives," but that doesn't mean leaving the other person "out to dry." That sounds very punitive. What I learned is that it means allowing the alcoholic the dignity to live their own lives and suffer the consequences of any destructive behavior. It is not easy, but I have seen the change in ME by doing this. I trust my AH will find his own way, as I have found mine. It won't be by my terms or on my timetable.

Support your parents the best you can, and I would recommend you getting some support and/or therapy for yourself. If Al-Anon is not for you, there is plenty out there. Face to face contact with others who do understand what you are going through will aid in your recovery.

BohemiMamaof3

Hi Absebtx :-)
Welcome from another newbie.
My Alcoholic Brother's story is a lot like yours. He went to one of the finest culinary schools after hs graduation and began a very promising career as a chef...that died a long slow death out b/c of drinking. He can't get a job in his profession, even in this large metropolitan area, because his reputation. I also fear he might have hepatitus, and then can't work w/food anymore, because many places test.

YES!!! My brother has done drugs, but alcohol is by far his drug of choice. He had a drug-related OD in ‘96 and again in ‘98(?). He’s almost 35 now. From about December 2004 to November 2005 he was hospitalized 6 times that we know of due to alcohol related illness (he went to a different hospitals). Two of those times he was knocking on death’s door. His heart and lungs were affected and he was put into a comatose state. A couple of years before he was hospitalized with pancreatitus and had to have his gall bladder removed due to it. That is why he can’t drink for too long now without being hospitalized. One of his Doctors and my mom filled out paperwork and filed a Marchman Act on him (see links below). He was then committed to a 30 day re-hab stay. Boy, was he mad, but we feared for his life - he was drinking himself to death.

Well, then you hope and pray that he will wake up and decide to help himself before he gets worse.

Been There Done That!!! My Mom finally told him he can’t live with her again. It sounds like you and your folks need to get some counseling for yourselves. The books Co-Dependant No More by Melanie Beattie and Boundaries by Drs. Cloud and Townsend helped me (Boundaries has a Christian pov). At one re-hab center my Abro attended they had a night where the addict and their family went for a general counseling session/teaching lecture and then broke down into smaller groups. That helped, but it didn’t last because Abro left the place after 4-5 mos. My mom & I should’ve continued but we didn’t. I’m thinking of finding a local Al-Anon meeting group and going myself, my Mom is too, but neither of us have begun yet.
Blessings,
EB

http://www.clerk.co.okeechobee.fl.us/Marchman_act.htm
http://www.pinellasclerk.org/aspIncl...ame=mental.htm

BohemiMamaof3

^So true.^

ASpouse

So then what's the problem? What are the "plenty of other options"? For my own education, I'd like to know what they are? ...... and if there are other options why aren't you seeking them out?

megamysterioso

Welcome to SR and I'm sorry for the continuous hardship that you and your family are facing. As sad as it is, he will not stop until he is ready to stop and it does sound as if his "bottom" is nowhere in sight just yet. I think that if an addict is serious about recovery that he/she will seek out ANY avenue possible to help-- that means not having "harsh" judgements about AA or any other treatment program. There comes a time that a person will try anything when desperate and/or willful enough.

No one who hasn't lived with an A, can give you sound "advice" on how to deal with the problem IMO. No matter how much you try, beg, cry, plead, lock him up, etc., it is all USELESS. He is charge of making the decisions in his life. You are in charge of making yours. All the best to you.

Missy

FROM ABSENTX POST:

Oh you need to get him help"

"Oh I cant believe your parents have just sat around and let this happen"

"You need to make him go get treatment"

blah blah blah blah
____________________________________
Just last night we were suspost to have supper at my in-laws. Long story short, by the time I got there, AH had his rage, left angry, left his parents angry... supper wasnt made. I stroll in not knowing what went on and his folks snared at me and started in on ME! With all the above comments... They blame for for his being intoxicated states and said I "HAVE" to do something. I had all to do to stay much less start in on them. But they are both 85, not in good health anyway so I left it alone. When I got home AH was passed out already and this morning was like nothing happened... hmmmm
So some stuff is classic hey?

absentx

I am, why do you think I am here?


Folks, thanks for the advice, but this is really quite simple. He has tried AA and he doesnt like it?? End of story. Not every addict out there wants to go into this defeatist attitude of treatment that they cant overcome this demon they have. I completely respect that. There are treatment methods that arent 12 step, and that is what is being sought.

LaTeeDa

My husband feels the same way. I believe that is one of the biggest obstacles to his recovery. My counselor explained to me that one of the common traits among alcoholics is grandiosity and pridefulness. My husband isn't currently drinking, but his attitude towards life has not changed. Until he can overcome the personality traits that go along with the drinking, he is still an unpleasant person to be around. Whether he goes to AA or not, I believe there is a profound change in thinking that must accompany any real recovery.

In other words, there is much more to it that the alcohol. It is the way of life that got them there in the first place that needs to be addressed.

My two cents.

L

BohemiMamaof3

Of course, not every meeting, program, re-hab is for every person. Just keep in mind that some of it can be AFam. Member's excuses. My ABro. has been to all sorts of AA meetings, various faith-based and secular re-habs and he doesn't like any of them! You gotta lol, it's tragic.

I can understand that. Personally, my religious convictions and personal expirence lead me to believe that one can be totally "delivered", yet I also see those who have more of a struggle and gradual expirence at recovery. I can't deny that some of those who had a longer struggle with gaining sobriety have not had just as much of a miracle as those who had more immediate results. I think any kind of recovery program and support group for relatives of an alcoholic can be of great help though. You can always discard any information or beliefs that you don't subscribe to, but there will be good info that you will be able to keep, use & learn from. Same goes for whatever recovery program your ABro will hopefully get into some day. I still need to take my own advice, though and go to al-anon.

Sounds familliar. Whether or not your (OP) ABro deals with that within a spiritual, faith-based context, a theraputic context, a secular humanistic context, a medical context or a blend, it has to be dealt with. As for you and the rest of the family, you just have to find your peace and sanity and dealing with ABro's problem in a way that best encourages him to help himself- taking the responsibility off you all and placing it on him. As an adult man, he has to make his own way in life.

denny57

absentx - you sound very frustrated; i know that feeling very well

Who is seeking the treatment? Your brother himself or you and your family for him? He needs to seek his own treatment and you and your parents need to seek treatment for yourselves. In all likelihood you will find that no matter what treatment you and/or your parents present to him he will not like it. He has to want it himself.

I hope you will seek that help for you. It will only better prepare you to help your brother. Good luck.

ASpouse

.....and again, I'll ask the question ...... what are they? What are the names of those methods that are being sought? I'm always open to new and better ways. so please, tell me the "names" of these other options?

AA ..... defeatist? The only time AA is defeatist, at least from what I know about it is when the Alcoholic attends it with a defeatist attitude, ergo, your brother perhaps?

dollface66

I feel for you. Everyone says the alcoholic will get help when they "hit bottom". What EXACTLY is bottom??? You'd think after the D.U.I'S,hospital visits,losing the career would be bottom.My husband wrecked his 32,000 truck twice in 4 weeks while drinking. You'd think he'd have learned ,huh? I've come to terms that NONE of us will ever be able to understand what makes our loved ones drink when so much bad has happened to them. I adore my husband and swore i'd never give up on him.Our loved ones need our love and support to help them get through this. They're not garbage just to be tossed away. Hang in there and pray.

absentx

http://www.soberforever.net/

there, a 12 step alternative.

The first step is defeatist. It is declaring yourself powerless over your addiction. I dont think this is the approach everyone likes to take to getting over an addiction.

What is frustrating Denny, is being preached too and told what is right and what is wrong and that I need to see a counselor (not by you).

If my brother is ready for help, there is no reason his family cant help guide him to the right places

ASpouse

has he asked his family for help and guidance? I don't remember you mentioning that your brother asked for help from his family, but that his family was stepping in to find him help without him asking for it.

Alcoholics are powerless over their addiction .... defeatist or not, that's the way it is.

I love co-dependents .... so predictable, so into playing the martyr! It's enlightening and reminds me why I am happy not to be a co-dependent much anymore! Thanks for reminding me of that .... I knew this thread would be good for something.

ASpouse

Taken right from the site you posted above. So, first your brother would have to detox first and they use medication and psychological counselling to combat the ravages of alcohol related afflictions.

Hmmm, exchanging one drug (alcohol) for another

I don't preach AA or Al Anon or any of the 12 step programs, but all of the people I know that have been successful, have been so through a 12 step program, but they are not for everyone and we have several fine examples here on this board that did not work a 12 step program and recovered.

Whatever gets him to stop works for me!

absentx

He told my mother the other night he was ready when he got to the hospital

I covered that earlier....


I believe he lacks discipline, not that he is powerless.

Your rhetoric is beginning to aggravate me, and I think it is quite rude.

thats more like it...

sunshine003

I wish it was just a matter of discipline absentx, I truly do. So then you're saying your brother has lacked discipline and that is why he is in this situation? I hardly think so. I doubt he ever wanted to end up wher ehe is. Seeking sobriety is a choice he needs to make, that is true. He has decided he is powerless of alcohol, that is why he has almost lost it all....he chooses alcohol over life. Doesn't sound like a simple matter of discipline to me. And I am not making excuses fo rhim, there is no excuse.

DesertEyes

Hey there Judy,

I haven't had much chance to correspond with you, so I want to let you know that I really appreciate the time and effort you put in to help all the new folks around here. Your honesty and lack of "B.S." are refreshing.

If I may ask you for a small favor with the large numbers of newbies we are getting. Most of them are quite inexperienced in the use of email and forums in general, never mind highly emotional forums like our Sober Recovery. One of the things they are lacking in is the understanding that much of the "subtlety" of human communication is lost when it is put into plain text. They tend to take a literal approach to what they read, which means they completely misunderstand humor, irony and sarcasm and take it too seriously.

Personaly, I love your style, but I can see when you are being funny or sarcastic. The newbies don't see that due to their inexperience. If you could add a few "visual cues" when you write, such as

<smiling>
<laughing>
<joke>
<shrugs>

or maybe use the "smilies" it would go a long way to reducing misunderstandings amongst the new folks.

Whadya think?

Mike :-)
(the guy who cleans up the place after the meetings)

minnie

For the record, there are plenty of 12 Step alternatives, they are just not so readily available as AA:
SMART
LifeRing
Rational Recovery
Counselling/Therapy
Church

I believe there are links to some on the Alcoholism or Newcomers forums.

Bottom line, though, is that the addict does the legwork. By all means gather the phone numbers/websites to pass over when help is asked for, but unles someone truly wants to change their life, then force rarely (?never) works.

Perhaps if you have come here to seek solutions for HIM, then posting your query on the Alcoholism board might bring you some different views.