He didn't even make it 1 day.....
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 2,333
He didn't even make it 1 day.....
without being carried off to the hospital in an ambulance....
He got into town late Sunday night, started his training Monday
morning and didn't show up Tuesday morning to training.
He maintenance drank all day Monday, bought a quart of vodka
Sunday night and nursed it through out the day Monday. During
breaks he would go to his room (training was in the conference
room of the hotel) and drink.
I wasn't going to call him honestly I wasn't.
But all day yesterday and until late evening I had this nagging
feeling that something was terribly wrong. Since he hadn't called
me I knew in my gut something had to be wrong. So at about 9pm
I called the hotel. They said no one by that name was registered.
I told them that is impossible as he is there for 2 weeks training.
The clerk was hesitant when she came back to the phone, asked if
I was a family member (I said yes because I know you get no info if
you are not.) She said there was an incident around 4pm and he
was taken to the local hospital.
I called him at the hospital. He was already going thru sever withdrawl
after only 5 hours of no drink. They had given him valium, a couple of shots he said, his skin was crawling.
He told me how he has drank since he left me in May of last year.
I already knew that.
Told me how he would keep change from money his ex-wife would give
him when he would go to the store for her or put gas in her car. He would skim a dollar here, a dollar there until he had enough to buy a bottle. Then he hid it in the laundry room in the basement of the apartment building she lives in. He would go down there to drink it so she would not know.
He is in worse condition than he was when we split up.
He has had 2 enablers since he left. His mother and his ex-wife. I can see
how his mother let that happen but his ex-wife is a social worker for Gods
Sake. To give money to an alcoholic is like giving an axe to Lizzy Bordon!!!!
His Mom thought he was in good hands because the ex is a social worker.
She deals with pregnant teenage girls, her scope of addicitons is limitied
I would say. I am a real estate professional but no where near equiped to
handle a Donald Trump real estate merger!!!!!!!!! He credentials have no
relavency here. I am angry at the ignorance.....and denial of a so called professional, let alone a mother who entrusted him with her child daily.
He is now telling me he wants to go to the VA hospital here in Chicago.
I have heard this many times before.
I AM beign sucked back in and just like his addicton I can't stop it
from happening. I knew this job was going to be too much for him
but I certainly thought he would get through the training at the very least.
He said he wants to die (I know a hook) I told him obviously not as he
himself called the ambulance when he thought he was dying in that
hotel room....he said you are probably right.
I can not walk away from this. I KNOW I should but I can not.
Afer work today I am going to the hotel to retrieve his belongings
and visit him in the hospital. He asked me to bring the phone numbers
to the veterns hospital.
My boys are in a rage right now and are fearful that I will bring John
home with me. I can say that this WILL not happen. I will take him
to a hospital but I will not bring him home. My boys would most
likely leave and go to their Dads if that happened. I will not lose my
boys to this, of this I am sure.
You guys are probably thinking I am out of my mind. I think I can stay
detached enough to assist him but not rescue.....I hope I am not fooling myself.......
For if I am the last year of recovery has most certainly been a hoax....
Prayers and honest comments are appreciated......
He got into town late Sunday night, started his training Monday
morning and didn't show up Tuesday morning to training.
He maintenance drank all day Monday, bought a quart of vodka
Sunday night and nursed it through out the day Monday. During
breaks he would go to his room (training was in the conference
room of the hotel) and drink.
I wasn't going to call him honestly I wasn't.
But all day yesterday and until late evening I had this nagging
feeling that something was terribly wrong. Since he hadn't called
me I knew in my gut something had to be wrong. So at about 9pm
I called the hotel. They said no one by that name was registered.
I told them that is impossible as he is there for 2 weeks training.
The clerk was hesitant when she came back to the phone, asked if
I was a family member (I said yes because I know you get no info if
you are not.) She said there was an incident around 4pm and he
was taken to the local hospital.
I called him at the hospital. He was already going thru sever withdrawl
after only 5 hours of no drink. They had given him valium, a couple of shots he said, his skin was crawling.
He told me how he has drank since he left me in May of last year.
I already knew that.
Told me how he would keep change from money his ex-wife would give
him when he would go to the store for her or put gas in her car. He would skim a dollar here, a dollar there until he had enough to buy a bottle. Then he hid it in the laundry room in the basement of the apartment building she lives in. He would go down there to drink it so she would not know.
He is in worse condition than he was when we split up.
He has had 2 enablers since he left. His mother and his ex-wife. I can see
how his mother let that happen but his ex-wife is a social worker for Gods
Sake. To give money to an alcoholic is like giving an axe to Lizzy Bordon!!!!
His Mom thought he was in good hands because the ex is a social worker.
She deals with pregnant teenage girls, her scope of addicitons is limitied
I would say. I am a real estate professional but no where near equiped to
handle a Donald Trump real estate merger!!!!!!!!! He credentials have no
relavency here. I am angry at the ignorance.....and denial of a so called professional, let alone a mother who entrusted him with her child daily.
He is now telling me he wants to go to the VA hospital here in Chicago.
I have heard this many times before.
I AM beign sucked back in and just like his addicton I can't stop it
from happening. I knew this job was going to be too much for him
but I certainly thought he would get through the training at the very least.
He said he wants to die (I know a hook) I told him obviously not as he
himself called the ambulance when he thought he was dying in that
hotel room....he said you are probably right.
I can not walk away from this. I KNOW I should but I can not.
Afer work today I am going to the hotel to retrieve his belongings
and visit him in the hospital. He asked me to bring the phone numbers
to the veterns hospital.
My boys are in a rage right now and are fearful that I will bring John
home with me. I can say that this WILL not happen. I will take him
to a hospital but I will not bring him home. My boys would most
likely leave and go to their Dads if that happened. I will not lose my
boys to this, of this I am sure.
You guys are probably thinking I am out of my mind. I think I can stay
detached enough to assist him but not rescue.....I hope I am not fooling myself.......
For if I am the last year of recovery has most certainly been a hoax....
Prayers and honest comments are appreciated......
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 5,075
Originally Posted by pmaslan
I AM beign sucked back in and just like his addicton I can't stop it
from happening.
from happening.
You CAN stop it from happening; you don't WANT to. and that's ok as long as you know that's the case. You have to do what is right for you. My prayers are with you.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: uk
Posts: 3,054
Patty, I'm trying to think what I would do and I'm a little stumped. I think I would begin by thinking closely about attachment and whether that was guiding my actions. If it is human compassion then there is no expectation of return, the action and feelings exist in the moment not based in future and past. I recognised attachment in myself through fear of loss, sense of expectation, desire to keep, (even if that means to keep hope that goes with life), I recognised attachment by the strength of my negative emotions when these things were challenged. That attachment isn't love or compassion, it's based not for someone else but on my own needs. Offering compassion doesn't make us angry or afraid - it is in the moment and I think brings peace, happiness and hope.
I think that is the most relevent thing, not because it answers all the smaller question but because it helps know where they come from and that can make it easier for you to answer them one by one.
I think that is the most relevent thing, not because it answers all the smaller question but because it helps know where they come from and that can make it easier for you to answer them one by one.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Litterbox City
Posts: 5,691
(((patty))) only you can make these choices. my heart goes out to you. prayers to both of you.
what eq said is right on!
Offering compassion doesn't make us angry or afraid - it is in the moment and I think brings peace, happiness and hope.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Sussex, NJ
Posts: 1,331
(((Patty))),
Yes you are being sucked back in and I must feel badly for you for I can never recall when I've given anyone a cyberhug!
I wish he never called you, I wish you never took his call and I wish you would not go to the hotel or the hospital tonight. Instead, I wish you would go to a meeting or to your counsellor.
Yes you are being sucked back in and I must feel badly for you for I can never recall when I've given anyone a cyberhug!
I wish he never called you, I wish you never took his call and I wish you would not go to the hotel or the hospital tonight. Instead, I wish you would go to a meeting or to your counsellor.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 2,333
Equus quote:
If it is human compassion then there is no expectation of return, the action and feelings exist in the moment not based in future and past. I recognised attachment in myself through fear of loss, sense of expectation, desire to keep, (even if that means to keep hope that goes with life), I recognised attachment by the strength of my negative emotions when these things were challenged. That attachment isn't love or compassion, it's based not for someone else but on my own needs. Offering compassion doesn't make us angry or afraid - it is in the moment and I think brings peace, happiness and hope.
This is where I am confused. I do love him, I feel that I may always love him.
My deepest hope is that he will one day be well and happy. With or without me.
I am questioning my motives here. Will I help him because I have compassion and love or am I feeling the need to attach for personal reasons....my sick need.
He is here alone, yet he is a grown man but a very sick man.
I am struggling so much and you words are helping me to evaluate the reasons for
my actons and responses....I am struggling today with what is reality and what is
still my hope....am I making sense??????
If it is human compassion then there is no expectation of return, the action and feelings exist in the moment not based in future and past. I recognised attachment in myself through fear of loss, sense of expectation, desire to keep, (even if that means to keep hope that goes with life), I recognised attachment by the strength of my negative emotions when these things were challenged. That attachment isn't love or compassion, it's based not for someone else but on my own needs. Offering compassion doesn't make us angry or afraid - it is in the moment and I think brings peace, happiness and hope.
This is where I am confused. I do love him, I feel that I may always love him.
My deepest hope is that he will one day be well and happy. With or without me.
I am questioning my motives here. Will I help him because I have compassion and love or am I feeling the need to attach for personal reasons....my sick need.
He is here alone, yet he is a grown man but a very sick man.
I am struggling so much and you words are helping me to evaluate the reasons for
my actons and responses....I am struggling today with what is reality and what is
still my hope....am I making sense??????
Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Sussex, NJ
Posts: 1,331
Yes Patty you are making sense and in my opinion, if this was just a matter of simple compassion for another human being, it wouldn't be so stressful, gut wrenching or such a struggle.
Why don't you call his mother or ex-wife and have them come and take care of him, why should you do it?
Why don't you call his mother or ex-wife and have them come and take care of him, why should you do it?
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 2,333
Quote:
Offering compassion doesn't make us angry or afraid - it is in the moment and I think brings peace, happiness and hope.
I am not angry at him, he is sick....I am angry with the people that thought they were helping him....these people had no business trying to help as they did more harm in
the process.....I am angry about that. I sent him away to hit a bottom, not to find
comfort and more enabling....he is in worse shape now than 9 months ago....my compassion lies with him and his disease not the people that have enabled him....
Offering compassion doesn't make us angry or afraid - it is in the moment and I think brings peace, happiness and hope.
I am not angry at him, he is sick....I am angry with the people that thought they were helping him....these people had no business trying to help as they did more harm in
the process.....I am angry about that. I sent him away to hit a bottom, not to find
comfort and more enabling....he is in worse shape now than 9 months ago....my compassion lies with him and his disease not the people that have enabled him....
Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Sussex, NJ
Posts: 1,331
....... but Patty you have no control on where, when or how he hits his bottom. The only person you should be angry at is yourself for attempting to push him to his bottom. You should know better that he will hit his bottom when he hits it!
If you did not clue in the other enablers of your plans, how can you possibly be angry with them?
Perhaps this is all part of hitting his bottom ...... it sounds to me that you sent him away with "expectations" for his recovery. It's OK to have expectations of someone, but they need to know what those expectations are ........Said with much love and caring! I'll be quiet now.
If you did not clue in the other enablers of your plans, how can you possibly be angry with them?
Perhaps this is all part of hitting his bottom ...... it sounds to me that you sent him away with "expectations" for his recovery. It's OK to have expectations of someone, but they need to know what those expectations are ........Said with much love and caring! I'll be quiet now.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Sussex, NJ
Posts: 1,331
Originally Posted by pmaslan
Judy......
Are you kidding me? Why don't I just go to the hospital with a gun
and get it over with. Those 2 have nothing to offer him
Are you kidding me? Why don't I just go to the hospital with a gun
and get it over with. Those 2 have nothing to offer him
OK, now I'll be quiet and no I wasn't kidding. You sent him back to them to help him, now they aren't good enough to help? (hopefully I understand this correctly)
Acting not reacting
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: My happy place
Posts: 1,788
(((Patty)))
Your post brought tears to my eyes. Two parts in particular.
and
A few things.
Its hard to see reality when you are in the middle of it.
You have made an excellent choice to not bring him home with you, for the sake of your sons. Hold onto that truth and dont forget whats at stake, for you. Not for him, for you!
I think Equus has a brilliant point here. Compassion is different than enabling. You can have compassion for his disease and his condition, without making it easy for him to do it again. There is nothing wrong with compassion, and my faith personally instructs me to have compassion towards all. Feeling sad for his situaiton, and knowing he is afflicted with a deadly disease, is compassion.
Its how we go about having compassion. For example, you could take him to the VA hospital with compassion. In my opinion, as I am sure you would agree, giving him money while hes there, calling his new job to explain, or any of that type of thing, is not compassionate.
The most compassionate thing I have done ever for D was to call the police last week. Hes sober, by default, but hes not dead, not in the hospital, and he is exactly where his life would have led him if he had not had so many enablers directing his path for him.
Its not your job to save him from enablers like his ex and mom. Its also not your place to call them to assist in his disease. I think encouraging enabling relationships is just as bad as us doing it personally.
(((Patty))) So many hugs
Im going to pm you Patty.
Your post brought tears to my eyes. Two parts in particular.
Told me how he would keep change from money his ex-wife would give
him when he would go to the store for her or put gas in her car. He would skim a dollar here, a dollar there until he had enough to buy a bottle.
him when he would go to the store for her or put gas in her car. He would skim a dollar here, a dollar there until he had enough to buy a bottle.
have heard this many times before.
I AM beign sucked back in and just like his addicton I can't stop it
I AM beign sucked back in and just like his addicton I can't stop it
Its hard to see reality when you are in the middle of it.
You have made an excellent choice to not bring him home with you, for the sake of your sons. Hold onto that truth and dont forget whats at stake, for you. Not for him, for you!
Offering compassion doesn't make us angry or afraid - it is in the moment and I think brings peace, happiness and hope.
I think Equus has a brilliant point here. Compassion is different than enabling. You can have compassion for his disease and his condition, without making it easy for him to do it again. There is nothing wrong with compassion, and my faith personally instructs me to have compassion towards all. Feeling sad for his situaiton, and knowing he is afflicted with a deadly disease, is compassion.
Its how we go about having compassion. For example, you could take him to the VA hospital with compassion. In my opinion, as I am sure you would agree, giving him money while hes there, calling his new job to explain, or any of that type of thing, is not compassionate.
The most compassionate thing I have done ever for D was to call the police last week. Hes sober, by default, but hes not dead, not in the hospital, and he is exactly where his life would have led him if he had not had so many enablers directing his path for him.
Its not your job to save him from enablers like his ex and mom. Its also not your place to call them to assist in his disease. I think encouraging enabling relationships is just as bad as us doing it personally.
(((Patty))) So many hugs
Im going to pm you Patty.
Occasional poor taste poster
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,542
What if you put him in a cab and paid the fair to the VA hospital? (Assuming he does not have the cab fair)
Will this last act of compassion free you from any more or less guilt you might or might not have?
Think of the signal you are sending your boys... How will they interpret your actions today? I ask you this because that was the main driver for decisions I have made, what was best for my relationship w/ my own boys.
Will this last act of compassion free you from any more or less guilt you might or might not have?
Think of the signal you are sending your boys... How will they interpret your actions today? I ask you this because that was the main driver for decisions I have made, what was best for my relationship w/ my own boys.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 2,333
Oh he has money Jazz...
His ex-wife gave him $400 for food and expenses he would incure while
in training, we can see where some of that money has gone can't we.
I know what you are saying, I am still trying to figure out my next move.....
His ex-wife gave him $400 for food and expenses he would incure while
in training, we can see where some of that money has gone can't we.
I know what you are saying, I am still trying to figure out my next move.....
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 5,075
Originally Posted by pmaslan
Quote:
I am not angry at him, he is sick....I am angry with the people that thought they were helping him....these people had no business trying to help as they did more harm in
the process.....I am angry about that. I sent him away to hit a bottom, not to find
comfort and more enabling....he is in worse shape now than 9 months ago....my compassion lies with him and his disease not the people that have enabled him....
I am not angry at him, he is sick....I am angry with the people that thought they were helping him....these people had no business trying to help as they did more harm in
the process.....I am angry about that. I sent him away to hit a bottom, not to find
comfort and more enabling....he is in worse shape now than 9 months ago....my compassion lies with him and his disease not the people that have enabled him....
I said almost this same thing in my therapist's office one day and she pointed out to me that this was co-dependency defined! You are wrapped up in what other people are not doing for him; you say YOU sent him away to hit bottom. You had no control over that. I asked my husband to leave so I could save myself.
I don't want to be harsh here because I'm trying to understand what you're going through; but the reasons you're giving don't sound good as far as detachment go. JMO
It's a Puggle!
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: On the road to sanity
Posts: 235
Patty,
I have no business telling you anything as I fear I would be right back there if I were in your situation.
But if you go back and read your above posts as if you were someone outside of the situation you might get a glimpse of what we are seeing...
"I knew this job was going to be too much for him"
That isn't for you to say
"I am angry with the people that thought they were helping him....these people had no business trying to help as they did more harm in
the process.....I am angry about that."
Sweetie, his choice and their choice, not yours
"I sent him away to hit a bottom, not to find
comfort and more enabling...."
I know we all hope they will hit that bottom, and at some point encourage it...but still not in our control.
"I think I can stay
detached enough to assist him but not rescue.....I hope I am not fooling myself"
I think I have enough control to have just one beer...sound similar?
"Are you kidding me? Why don't I just go to the hospital with a gun
and get it over with. Those 2 have nothing to offer him"
Again, it's not your place to decide what they have to offer.
I hope you don't take any of this the wrong way, I just wanted to take the time to point these things out. I had Co-dependant No More out this morning and the words are still fresh in my head. I also hope that someone would be kind enough to point these things out to me were I in that situation. Letting go of that "If I can control everything in the situation, then I will have control OF the situation" thinking is so important for us.
Stay strong, but take care of you first.
Hugs,
Paula
I have no business telling you anything as I fear I would be right back there if I were in your situation.
But if you go back and read your above posts as if you were someone outside of the situation you might get a glimpse of what we are seeing...
"I knew this job was going to be too much for him"
That isn't for you to say
"I am angry with the people that thought they were helping him....these people had no business trying to help as they did more harm in
the process.....I am angry about that."
Sweetie, his choice and their choice, not yours
"I sent him away to hit a bottom, not to find
comfort and more enabling...."
I know we all hope they will hit that bottom, and at some point encourage it...but still not in our control.
"I think I can stay
detached enough to assist him but not rescue.....I hope I am not fooling myself"
I think I have enough control to have just one beer...sound similar?
"Are you kidding me? Why don't I just go to the hospital with a gun
and get it over with. Those 2 have nothing to offer him"
Again, it's not your place to decide what they have to offer.
I hope you don't take any of this the wrong way, I just wanted to take the time to point these things out. I had Co-dependant No More out this morning and the words are still fresh in my head. I also hope that someone would be kind enough to point these things out to me were I in that situation. Letting go of that "If I can control everything in the situation, then I will have control OF the situation" thinking is so important for us.
Stay strong, but take care of you first.
Hugs,
Paula
Member
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 1,637
Hey Patty....
I'm having a hard time with this. Only because I hear so much of me in your post. Right now you're blaming him Mom and ex-wife for his condition. Not true. You know that. They, like you, have no control over him and his drinking. He has to own it. They can't fix it. You can't fix it.
Please don't go to the hospital. Please don't put yourself under him as he falls. You know better. Head and heart are in two different places right now, and the head should be driving.
If you go save him, you'll be enabling him just like everyone else. The dance stops when we make a choice to stop dancing.
Please Patty... take some time to think this through. Call your sponsor.
Hugs,
Shannon
I'm having a hard time with this. Only because I hear so much of me in your post. Right now you're blaming him Mom and ex-wife for his condition. Not true. You know that. They, like you, have no control over him and his drinking. He has to own it. They can't fix it. You can't fix it.
Please don't go to the hospital. Please don't put yourself under him as he falls. You know better. Head and heart are in two different places right now, and the head should be driving.
If you go save him, you'll be enabling him just like everyone else. The dance stops when we make a choice to stop dancing.
Please Patty... take some time to think this through. Call your sponsor.
Hugs,
Shannon
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,358
Patty,
How much time do you have before he's released from the hospital? Is this something that you have to decide on right now, or can it wait for a couple of days?
Sometimes Patty, we can only make the very best decision we can at the time. It might turn out to be the right move, it might not.
I would suggest examining your motives for getting involved more than you already are. Because in the end, it's ourselves we have to answer to.
If you can assist him without enabling, without falling into a pit of dispair yourself, then fine. If however, it's going to turn your world and serenity upside down all over again, then maybe step back and let his circumstances lead him where they may.
It's a tough call - where does compassion end and enabling begin? Our emotions make us fumble with that time and time again!
I feel for you.
How much time do you have before he's released from the hospital? Is this something that you have to decide on right now, or can it wait for a couple of days?
Sometimes Patty, we can only make the very best decision we can at the time. It might turn out to be the right move, it might not.
I would suggest examining your motives for getting involved more than you already are. Because in the end, it's ourselves we have to answer to.
If you can assist him without enabling, without falling into a pit of dispair yourself, then fine. If however, it's going to turn your world and serenity upside down all over again, then maybe step back and let his circumstances lead him where they may.
It's a tough call - where does compassion end and enabling begin? Our emotions make us fumble with that time and time again!
I feel for you.
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